Wifi Constantly Dropping in Lion

Dear jrpeterson5, What you stated can be very helpful for illustrating the whole scheme of the problem.

Can you compare the ping results between these OSs while disconnection occures , please?

Please report the result of ping yahoo.com or google.com.

I think it is a very good footstep to start a systematic investigation.

Thanks

jrpeterson5 wrote:

Snow Leopard and Windows 7 Pro are solid on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS. Lion and Mountain Lion constantly and 'reliably' drop wifi (exactly at 5 minutes of connectivity) on ISP X and Y with Netgear, D-Link, and AEBS. This is a grand total of 15+ different trials.

Call it what it is. Let the lashing begin.....I'm sure it's something I am doing. 😉

Look at your WiFi settings on your router and report what the DHCP lease time is.

Also look at System Preferences->Energy Saver. Make sure the Tab is set to Battery or Power Adapter, however you are using your computer when the failure occurs. What is the Computer sleep timeout value?

When the connection has failed, what do you see? Does your browser just say "You are not connected to the internet"? Does your WiFi/Airport Icon show a connection (bars black) or no connection (bars gray)?

If your WiFi shows a connection, go to Applications->Utiltiies and run the Terminal App. In the window that opens, type "ping -c 4 8.8.8.8" and hit return. Tell us what the result of that ping is.

Sorry guys. This is where I get frustrated and speechless. I am a dummy user and I can follow jrpeterson5 reasoning, it is my case too. But why am I supposed to ping or do other things I am not aware of :-)?? I only know that after leaving snow leopard my wi-fi has been a disaster only with my iMac. iPad, IPhone and pc are working wonderfully. I have tried all the solutions posted here and I cannot change ISP Provider for the next 11 months (I have a contract, to break it would cost too much). It is now 2 years I am having this nightmare. And now my AppleCare insurance ends in 2 weeks. I cannot spend hours on the phone with apple as i work during the week and at weekends there is no service...

Honestly it does not seem normal to me!

Why Do you think I don't believe Apple is working on this?

I'm the one telling the non believers APPLE is working hard on this problem and I have first hand experience. I also NEVER said Apple has stopped working on the issues. It was just a response to your no issue comments like "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM". Not a useful statement to anyone here especially Apple.

I'm on Apples side and Yes it's probably somethings on certain computers for what ever reason.

There are two things in common with us here:

1: We do know for a fact All these different symptoms surfaced after installing L/ML.

2: We all lose wifi

I LIKE YOU FEEL that something on our macs whether dormant or not was brought to the surface with a final out come, Dropped wifi.

So instead of misunderstand what I write try to understand it. I don't know maybe you just feel the need to show everybody that you are so much smarter than me exposing you insecurities.

Hopefully you don't work for Apple. Everyone I have ever dealt with at Apple over the years have been respectful, listen to and try to understand my issue and opinions, never saying this is a useful comment and this is not, never trying to show how much smarter they were than me, even if they were. Because if you do it would be putting me on the verge of negating those good feelings I have for Apple. Making me feel embarrassed for Apple.

I've reached the conclusion that if a post comes from me You just go into attach mode!

You refuse to see we agree on most things my major issue has been, "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM" I feel we should all tell our selves that over and over again every time we need to reboot.

This is how I take your statements!

Everyone has cancer cells in their body's.

You have 30 people

20 get lung cancer

17 of those smoked cigarets

1 patient that didn't smoke say's, "You can't blame the cigarets for your lung cancer just because it made it surface", it was the way your dormant cancer cells reacted to the cigarets that gave you cancer "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM".

Hopefully you don't really feel that way it's just how you express your self.

So again for the record I support Apple. The way they jumped on finding an it right away looking for an issue is impressive! I'm beyond impressed that they take the first step in contacting just regular users to ask questions and have you run test for them on your mac while never trying to prove there knowledge by being condescending. I have posted useful info and asked useful questions I can't make that any clearer for you. This thread is only one of many.

So enough already lay off me if you are so blind you can't see I agree with much of what you are downing me for. I might have responded first so I'll be the first to say enough. I'm canceling notifications from this thread. Like I said earlier there are many threads on this subject and I recommend to other posters find one of those more useful and helpful threads with many helpful people there, with no one deeming you as useful or not useful. All of you don't deserve this treatment.

Bye all this thread has be deemed "not useful and definatly not helpful". lol

gsspike wrote:

Why Do you think I don't believe Apple is working on this?

I've reached the conclusion that if a post comes from me You just go into attach mode!

You refuse to see we agree on most things my major issue has been, "THERE IS NO REAL PROBLEM" I feel we should all tell our selves that over and over again every time we need to reboot.

This is how I take your statements!

Everyone has cancer cells in their body's.

Hopefully you don't really feel that way it's just how you express your self.

So enough already lay off me if you are so blind you can't see I agree with much of what you are downing me for. I might have responded first so I'll be the first to say enough. I'm canceling notifications from this thread. Like I said earlier there are many threads on this subject and I recommend to other posters find one of those more useful and helpful threads with many helpful people there, with no one deeming you as useful or not useful. All of you don't deserve this treatment.

Bye all this thread has be deemed "not useful and definatly not helpful". lol

Okay, I applogize for making you feel this way, I had no intent in doing that. I think that we are experiencing some kind of language barrier where your use of english is not communicating, to me, what you want to say. And I think that you are putting to much "he is talking about me" into what I've said, instead of saying "he's illustrating how he sees what is going on".

I want people to have this problem solved.

I want to help people by getting them to do the things I ask so that we can adequately go through all the technical issues to arrive at what is really wrong!

People don't seem to have the time or desire to actually do that, and instead want to ask why Apple isn't solving their problem, but still don't have time to talk to Apple either.

I've tried repeated to say "THIS IS NOT ONE PROBLEM" and "THIS IS NOT EASY TO SOLVE".

It pains me that people think that there is no advantage to spending time to solve this problem, but have plenty of time to get on the forums and complain.

maurofromparma wrote:

Sorry guys. This is where I get frustrated and speechless. I am a dummy user and I can follow jrpeterson5 reasoning, it is my case too. But why am I supposed to ping or do other things I am not aware of :-)?? I only know that after leaving snow leopard my wi-fi has been a disaster only with my iMac. iPad, IPhone and pc are working wonderfully. I have tried all the solutions posted here and I cannot change ISP Provider for the next 11 months (I have a contract, to break it would cost too much). It is now 2 years I am having this nightmare. And now my AppleCare insurance ends in 2 weeks. I cannot spend hours on the phone with apple as i work during the week and at weekends there is no service...

Honestly it does not seem normal to me!

If your car stops working, under warrenty, or not, do you not take it in to be serviced, and deal with the expense and time to do that, as part of the "deal" in owning a "car"? Sure you'd like to not have to do that, and for your computer, you'd like for someone to just "fix it" for you. But, because this problem is not "broken hardware", or even, perhaps "just" broken software, you are not really going to have the luxury of getting if fixed without putting forth the effort to try and "find the problem". It seems like a hassle, but I just don't know what else to tell you will work. You can spend your time "waiting", or spend your time "finding the problem". Which will be more productive, and perhaps solve the problem faster? It doesn't seem to me, that "waiting for Apple to solve the problem" is likely to be very timely.

pookyba wrote:

This is the first time I have been disappointed by Apple. I think everyone is looking for a solution to fix their WIFI to work normally until Apple fix bug? Also this is not the first time that Apple has made ​​a mistake with WiFi, this is also happened in 10.6, 10.7 and now again in 10.8 version. I am not paid to help Apple find there bugs and I just share my solution to temp. fix this problem. Also I'm really sorry that apple footsteps of Microsoft 😟

I can confirm that kext from SE 10.6.3 work perfect ! I use it about 6h without single drops 🙂

The problem is for the vast majority of Apple customers, Wi-Fi works beautifully.

The issue is where the problem lies among those who are having issues, which is actually quite complex.

You are right. I was just getting frustrated... I will contact you again when I will be sitting in front of my iMac :-)

Lost chance !

If you have read my previous posts here, you know my problem is solved by changing ISP , but NEVER I have suggested to anyone to do that. I told my story just in hope that some expert can find the main cause.

As I stated in my previous post, the manager of my previous ISP is a friend of mine. I managed to have a discussion about the case as I was sure the problem ,-whatever is , ISP or Apple - can be addressed during that discussion.

He told me to do some tests ( as testing VPN, Proxifier, setting SSH, traceroute , ISP logging state in new ISP, second key settings of the path , .....) before the discussion.

But I had a problem: fortunately or unfortunately my problem was solved since several months and I couldn’t check any of them.

I asked here someone with the problem to check VPN but no answer !! asked to test Proxifier , no answer ! go to some public free wifi area , no answer ! calling your ISP , no answer ! . Even asked simplest Terminal commands as ping yahoo.com, .. yet, no answer ! Why should I try helping someone who doesn’t want to be helped?

Finally I got frustrated like you , not from Apple , but from this uncooperativeness ! and canceled that interview. I think this was one of the biggest chances for finding the main culprit.

I say openly that I including most others here are NOT Apple members. we are ordinary people here just to help others in an issue. But everyone here is just seeking for a “Magic Stick” which solves the issue immediately without giving complete information about the subject. There is no Magic here. The only thing is this: “Wifi not Working”.

Let me know what a doctor does when you go to him and say: “ Hi doc ! ,I have fever”. Does the doctor immediately start writing prescriptions ? Absolutely not. The doctor starts asking you some questions like: when did your fever start? how long? what did you do? then starts physical examinations and finally prescriptions.

Th subject “ Wifi not Working” is the same as that fever. You should say your signs and symptoms that someone can help you. Perhaps your case is not my own case.

Augend wrote:

Lost chance !

If you have read my previous posts here, you know my problem is solved by changing ISP , but NEVER I have suggested to anyone to do that. I told my story just in hope that some expert can find the main cause.

As I stated in my previous post, the manager of my previous ISP is a friend of mine. I managed to have a discussion about the case as I was sure the problem ,-whatever is , ISP or Apple - can be addressed during that discussion.

He told me to do some tests ( as testing VPN, Proxifier, setting SSH, traceroute , ISP logging state in new ISP, second key settings of the path , .....) before the discussion.

But I had a problem: fortunately or unfortunately my problem was solved since several months and I couldn’t check any of them.

I asked here someone with the problem to check VPN but no answer !! asked to test Proxifier , no answer ! go to some public free wifi area , no answer ! calling your ISP , no answer ! . Even asked simplest Terminal commands as ping yahoo.com, .. yet, no answer ! Why should I try helping someone who doesn’t want to be helped?

Finally I got frustrated like you , not from Apple , but from this uncooperativeness ! and canceled that interview. I think this was one of the biggest chances for finding the main culprit.

I say openly that I including most others here are NOT Apple members. we are ordinary people here just to help others in an issue. But everyone here is just seeking for a “Magic Stick” which solves the issue immediately without giving complete information about the subject. There is no Magic here. The only thing is this: “Wifi not Working”.

Let me know what a doctor does when you go to him and say: “ Hi doc ! ,I have fever”. Does the doctor immediately start writing prescriptions ? Absolutely not. The doctor starts asking you some questions like: when did your fever start? how long? what did you do? then starts physical examinations and finally prescriptions.

Th subject “ Wifi not Working” is the same as that fever. You should say your signs and symptoms that someone can help you. Perhaps your case is not my own case.

It is a mistake to assume that some of us 'don't want to be helped'. Like you Augend, I am a doctor working 6 days per week. To 'resetup' all 15+ scenarios I discribed in my previous post to test a ping is simply NOT realistic right NOW....and CERTAINLY NOT realistic within a 24 hour period of your request. Those scenarios took the better part of an afternoon....wasted to answer previous questions. Have some sympathy and understanding. This thread, as others have stated, has become a waste because of the tone.

I appreciate the efforts and courtesy of people like you. I just find difficult to understand why that has to be the only resources available:-) anyway , thank you for your suggestions I will try to apply them and see the results .

Nice to hear that.

The cause I asked someone does such stuff was not based on a trial and error basis. Few days ago , my friend (I didn't want to tell my job here but it is exposed now. In fact he is not my close friend, he is one of my patients and I didn't need to put time for that interview, he just comes to my office) emailed me a link to an article to make me familiar with the subject. I had to do some tests for him.

I just put the conclusion of that article here with this topic:

TCP Performance problems caused by interaction between Nagle's Algorithm and Delayed ACK

here is some staff which is extremely scientic. I just go to the conculsion ( This is a copy-paste, not my own research. For respecting the Copyright, I put the main link at the end. This is a free article). The author describes a similar topic as the topic in this thread.

"

Why didn't Windows suffer this problem?

On Windows the TCP segment size is 1460 bytes. On Mac OS X and other operating systems that add a TCP time-stamp option, the TCP segment size is twelve bytes smaller: 1448 bytes.

What this means is that on Windows, 100,000 bytes is 68 full-sized 1460-byte packets plus 720 extra bytes. Because 68 is an even number, by pure luck the application avoids the Nagle/Delayed ACK interaction.

On Mac OS X, 100,000 bytes is 69 full-sized 1448-byte packets, plus 88 bytes extra. Because 69 is an odd number, Mac OS X exposes the application problem.

A crude way to solve the problem, though still not as efficient as the double-buffering approach, is to make sure the application sends each semantic message using a single large write (either by copying the message data into a contiguous buffer, or by using a scatter/gather-type write operation like sendmsg) and set the TCP_NODELAY socket option, thereby disabling Nagle's algorithm. This avoids this particular problem, though it can still suffer other problems inherent in not using double buffering — like, if the last packet of a response gets lost, there are no packets following it to trigger a fast retransmit.

http://www.stuartcheshire.org/papers/NagleDelayedAck/

Don't be scared ! That's really a jargon ! we don't need to understand that completely , I leave it here for experts. As an abstract, this article compares TCP methods between Windows and Mac which may lead to TCP time out in some network settings. My patient was thinking this issue is more obvious in ISPs with huge packet loss or IP logging or some degree of filtering or not supporting these stuff. But this is just a hypothesis which needs to be tested.

That's why I asked someone do those experiments. I cannot interperet the results, I just wanted to transfer the data to him for a definite conclusion.

If anyone is ready to cooperate , I will manage to arrange another appointment.

Hope that helps !

Augend wrote:

TCP Performance problems caused by interaction between Nagle's Algorithm and Delayed ACK

This is a great example of how there are lots of factors, some completely behind the scenes, that affect how "the network" works.

This is why there are lots of things to try and work through, to find the root cause of the problem.

jrpeterson5 wrote:

It is a mistake to assume that some of us 'don't want to be helped'. Like you Augend, I am a doctor working 6 days per week. To 'resetup' all 15+ scenarios I discribed in my previous post to test a ping is simply NOT realistic right NOW....and CERTAINLY NOT realistic within a 24 hour period of your request. Those scenarios took the better part of an afternoon....wasted to answer previous questions. Have some sympathy and understanding. This thread, as others have stated, has become a waste because of the tone.

What is complicating things, is that people come here, and seem to expect that they will experience "tone" in the conversation. There are lots of cultures here (this is not just US citizens) and there are many who use English as a second language it seems. So, we are often fighting over things that are not meant to be fighting words, and then culture or past experiences are causing more replies to be heated, trying to defend what has been said.

I am trying to help. I am being demanding of peoples time and commitment because I know that is what it will take to solve the problem.

Like it or not, this is not a trivial problem to work though.

Like it or not, this forum is not where Apple does customer support. This is where customers help each other with common experiences, solutions etc. If all you want/need is Apple support, then you need to have an AppleCare agreement, or be willing to pay them for the service, AND you need to be on the phone with them, or at an Apple store, every day, until it is fixed.

If you don't have money and time like that, then you might be able to get a solution, for free, by taking the time to work through the issues here.

For some people, that might be too much time, and I'm sorry, but that means you'll just have to deal with the issue yourself, and be frustrated, mad (and hateful for some it seems). If that makes you feel better, go for it, but do it somewhere else. I find it completely childish and inappropriate for this forum.

People have to eat, work, sleep, bathe and do all kinds of things in their life, and they make time to do that. Sometimes it is convenient, sometimes its not.

But, you can't expect to get different results then you have gotten to date, by continuing to do the same thing. Do that is the defintiion of stupid.

I know this can sound harsh. I am a parent, and I have a parenting mentality. When I see conversations that involve poor choices, ignorance or stupidity, I'm going to try and give you information or impetus to do better so that you can get great results from your actions.

I'm sorry if that tone frustrates or bothers you. It's who I am and how I work at this kind of distance. If I could see you in person, experience your frustration, and see all of your circumstances, I might be able to know what you are capable of.

When people come here asking for help, I ask for those people to value the fact that I am spending time here trying to help.

gphonei wrote:

I am trying to help. I am being demanding of peoples time and commitment because I know that is what it will take to solve the problem.

You really need to stop talking now.