Disable autosave

Maybe Lion is the experience for Apple, Microsoft had with Vista 😉 It was hated by most users 😉

Or maybe folks that make this stupid analogy (vista=lion) are flat out insane? There are just as many 5-star ratings in the app store as there are discussions in this forum, so one would think these types of remarks would just be embarrassing for the maker. But apparently not. They persist. It's a bit tiring. 😟

And what will you do when Me..oSoft will have embedded Lion's features in Office as the announced ?

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 10 août 2011 10:32:00

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

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To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

There is no Lion update delivered at this time so what make you think that "they persit".

Only developers testion Lion 1.7.2 may know what Apple is doing and they can't say what is delivered because they are under NDA.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 10 août 2011 10:34:11

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Yvan,

Truly, I have never seen such uncritical acceptance of what Apple does. You are a true devotee. You will surely go to Apple Heaven and will be rewarded for your dedication.

At the merest hint of any criticism of Apple, you leap to its defence like a nightclub bouncer.

No doubt that is admirable, but what are you doing in this thread, whose purpose is to discuss the problems associated with Autosave? Since you so wholeheartedly approve of Autosave, I keep on wondering what your contribution is and why you feel impelled to leap in every 5 minutes to rebut the critical comments made by others.

To the others: please keep the discussion going. It's important, so let's not get sidetracked by interventions from people who love Apple and adore Autosave.

Who said that I approve this or that?

I wrote that some users didn't behaved as serious consumers. I wish to add that I am French and that in France, "playing with matches" isn't considered as an insult.

I wrote that Me..oSoft had announced that they will deliver an Office update matching Lions new features in a few months.

I wrote that at this time nobody may say that "Apple persists" as only developers under NDA are aware of what they are embedding in the update 1.7.2.

What is sure, at least from my point of view, is that this 17 pages thread is filled with rants repeating ad nauseum that AutoSave is wrongly implemented.

What are you hoping from that ? In these forums, we are users speaking to users. We can't change the system behavior.

On my side, I point what I feel to be odd in some messages.

I also offered a script reducing the impact of the Versions feature.

I also offered one getting rid of the "restore applications state" so, I think that I was more useful than 17 pages of rants which may be resumed as:

"Hi Apple, we know that you aren't reading what we write here but we want to say that you must change the behavior of your AutoSave and Versions features".

When I want to criticize Apple, I don't rant in forums, I send messages in channels dedicated to exchanges with them.

Some threads are useful but this one appears to be what we call (in French) a "défouloir".

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 10 août 2011 11:40:21

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

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To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

quote from Yvan: "Some threads are useful but this one appears to be what we call (in French) a "défouloir"."

That's what puzzles me, Yvan. Since you consider this thread a "défouloir", what on earth are you doing in here?

Maybe Lion also features an autopost functionality for pro-apple thoughts.

Well, for sure Lion in general will be refined as development goes on. The last updates 10.5 and 10.6 I remember as completely unproblematic from the beginning in contrast to 10.7. And I remember also when they implemented those dock-folders on the right hand side. I considered them as quite useless because they had very little function. Meanwhile I use them continously because they got some basic functions that make them useful. I can customise to recent documents, apps etc. and adjust the appearence to "folder" instead of those distracting overlayed icons. The functionality has improved and that started to make it useful.

What I want to say is that too much simplicity reverses the usefulness quickly.

I really like things simple as it improves user experience and efficiency/ productivity. Simplicity means to make things easier, but not automatically renouncing functionality, even though it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice things.

In our case here, I think it is made too simple. Autosave all.

Coming back to the example above, I am hoping they will also refine this new feature and make it adjustable in a simple way.

From time to time, it's interesting to add new items to the list of "These Foolish Things" which come to mind when I listen to Billie Holiday or Lester Young.

I must say that with this thread I got a lot of them.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 10 août 2011 13:55:20

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

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To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Well I hope that Apple is listening so that the "Pro" users don't feel about Lion as the MS users did about Vista.

For various reasons "Autosave" needs to be an option that can be turned off. While "Versions" is needed when "Autosave" is active, it should be possible to turn "Versions" off when "Autosave" is disabled.

Try Lion Tweaks...

It is nice that somebody has done the work for us and is easily reversed if we change our minds:)

http://ifredrik.com/applications/

Unfortunately "Lion Tweaks" can't disable Autosave, but someone out there is listening; here's an authoritative article from Ted Landau:

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/discontent_with_lions_my_way_or_the_highw ay_approach/

Reading that article (and also that from arstecnica), I think now I get the picture of autosave + autoquit apps a bit better. I am afraid that autosave will never be able to be turned off just like the autoquitting apps.

The goal behind all that, I suspect, is that in future there will be no difference between an open and a closed app. Apps just will be there for the user. (In the Lion beta the indicators in the doc were turned off.)

Apple might think that it is easier for users not to think about opened or closed apps. Therefor it is necessary that saving and quitting is done by the system.

What I can say from my iPhone and iPad is that I have always missed ( and still do ) that "close" button to get rid of an app when I don't need it anymore. The "recent apps" stack just gets cluttered and annoying. Some start up from zero again and some open in the state they were cloesd. That's confusing.

I really see that as a big disadvantage on iOS. Has Apple thought about that or do they really think that everything on iOS is better because it cashes in more money than the mac division?

The misconseption I see there is that working on a mac is far more demanding and complex than what iOS can perform.

Sorry for ranting, but at the moment I can't discover any helpful stuff for my daily mac-usage. It's just bringing limitations to my mac.

papalapapp wrote:

----

"I am afraid that autosave will never be able to be turned off just like the autoquitting apps. The goal behind all that, I suspect, is that in future there will be no difference between an open and a closed app. Apps just will be there for the user. (In the Lion beta the indicators in the doc were turned off.)"

----

- First; who has decided that there "should" be no difference between an open and a closed program or function? And why is not the user considered fit to make that decision for her- or himself? Who can decide that better than the user?

- Second; what is the rationale behind such a goal?

In fact, this is a major logical difference, therefore software programs must be made accordingly - and be capable of being opened and closed at will.

What I can say from my iPhone and iPad is that I have always missed ( and still do ) that "close" button to get rid of an app when I don't need it anymore. The "recent apps" stack just gets cluttered and annoying. Some start up from zero again and some open in the state they were cloesd. That's confusing.

That's the one thing I really love about WebOS. My first smartphone was a Plam Pré. Having the ability to open and close each app as I want is a major advantage. It's also done very well... you use the apps full screen... you swipe to make them into windows ("cards")... and then you can scroll through your open apps. To close any of them, you just swipe up... brilliant. WebOS is pretty much universally loved. After Palm was bought out by HP, I was really hoping they would come out with some great hardware. I had high hopes for the TouchPad. Unfortunately, the reviews of the hardware have just been mediocre. I ended up getting an Android tablet (the Asus Transformer) which is an excellent piece of hardware. I immediately missed being able to have as many apps open as I wanted and closing them as I choose.

Apple has come out with some innovative ideas in Lion, but many of them drastically change the way the OS works. I expect many people would never turn these features on if they had the choice. By making them mandatory, I guess they hope that people will eventually see the usefullness of them (although, I'm not sure I will). They're going away from some of the fundamental aspects of the way operating systems work... all operating systems. That's a bold move and it does take some guts. Unfortunately, it will make using other systems difficult for people who experience nothing but the iPhone, iPad, OS X ecosystem. What happens when kids grow up using nothing but "i" devices and then they get into the workforce and, more than likely, will be using Windows? They won't know most of the basic functions with respect to saving and revising documents. As an employer, I'm not going to be happy if someone looks at me like a chicken without a head when I ask them to "save a document". It could also be a smart move on Apple's part to keep people in the Apple ecosystem as using Windows (and every other OS) will just seem too difficult... e.g. "What do you mean I have to save something when I'm done working on it? It's so much easier on a Mac... it does all that for you.". I am a big fan of OS X (well... have been). I'm not thrilled with where it seems to be going. Options are great, but making major changes in the way the OS works and making them mandatory are not exactly "options".