OSX Lion: Backups/Other Disk Space

ScaredyCatUK wrote:

. . .

You can disable local backups which will free up space.

For most purposes, not really. Local snapshots are not counted by the Finder or Get Info, since OSX will usually delete them if the space is needed.

See #30 in Time Machine - Frequently Asked Questions, especially the pink box, for details.

I beg to differ, in practice I have found that the space is counted by Get Info.

My disk had 65 GB free, (Shown by Get Info) - having removed the backups using the method above I now have(had) just under 300GB free (again with Get Info) reducing (now 188GB via Get Info) as I update from iTunes match.

I'm also not entirely sure why they need to be half the size of my disk.

Having read that page, I'm not convinced that local snapshots are much use at all - even more reason to get rid of the files IMO.

thanks for the quick reply, very interesting link. I had removed local snapshots and using whatsize and terminal had gotten rid of a lot of duplicates and backup files but did not free up much space in the disk. Had no other choice but to wipe clean the disk and reinstall Lion. Recovered most of my files and applications from Time Machine and I am back as new... or at least until I post again. Thanks again for the suggestions.

ScaredyCatUK wrote:

I beg to differ, in practice I have found that the space is counted by Get Info.

I had my doubts, too, until I saw the Note at the bottom of Apple's article: OS X Lion: About Time Machine's "local snapshots" on portable Macs.

So I compared Get Info on my Lion partition with Disk Utility and, sure enough, there was about a 3 GB difference (small system, obviously). Then I used the WhatSize app, in As Admin mode, and it showed the Locals as 3 GBs. See the green box in Where did my Disk Space go? for details.

Mini-Mac wrote:

. . .

NO NEED TO GO INTO TERMINAL FOR THIS WORK AROUND TO WORK!!!!!!!

In most cases, there's no need to do anything at all, as OSX will delete the Local snapshots when necessary.

The only reliable, semi-permanent way to make automatic Time Machine backups, but stop Local Snapshots, is to use the Terminal command. Even that will be reversed in some circumstances.

Pondini, don't tell that to my 11.6" Air. When I received my first warning that my 128GB flash disk was full. I did what I explained above and now 3 months later I have yet to have any issues. The only reason I even visited this site was because my new 13.3" Air's 256GB flash drive was gaining about 400MB's per day and I had forgotten what I did to my 11.6" Air months back.

I thought I'd post my findings because it appears that others are still having questions. This is just a work around for others to avoid going into Terminal for a fix, like many others have suggested.

Cheers

That's your choice, of course, but is usually not required. Time Machine will automatically delete Local snapshots if your drive gets over about 80% full (it's 90% on larger drives), and stop making new ones.

And the Terminal command is more reliable than repeatedly turning Time Machine OFF and ON. This is the only post I've seen where that worked at all.

Time Machine preference dosen't have to be repeatedly turned ON and OFF (never said that). Once the effects that your trying to achieve occurs you don't have to repeat anyting.

I totally appoligize if I gave the impression that the process had to be repeated.

Again, once the process is complete you'd only have to follow the process if you were to change Time Machine drives or decide you don't want a backup and later want one, then you'd have to follow my procedure. I set my 11.6" MBA up well over 3 months ago and have NOT had to repeat the process, not even once.

Cheers🙂

You've done something that Apple doesn't support -- it's likely a bug.

Mini-Mac wrote:

Time Machine preference dosen't have to be repeatedly turned ON and OFF (never said that).

That's what I got from this: "If it dosen't work turn OFF Time Machine then back ON using the "OFF "ON" switch, enter password (using Time Capsule). Repeat #3 until success. This procedure has taken me no more that 3 tries . . ."

But the fact remains that what you did shouldn't work -- you may have stumbled onto a bug, perhaps one that's only going to work in a few cases, and may not work after certain operations, or after the next OSX update.

Your absolutely correct in the fact that it may not work in future updates. However it's worked for me since 10.7.0. Im not sure if it's a bug or built into Lion as a back door type function. I suspect that it's a function that's built into Lion for desktops but will work for mobile devices (laptops).

To my understanding local snapshot's are intended for mobile computers when a TM drive is not avaliable.........My Mini has never had local snapshots enabled, Never! Not sure it that's a bug either!

The fact remains that this procedure does work, and until it stops working I will continure to use it. I suspect others would as well rather than using terminal to make TM preference changes.

BTW, I purchased my 11.6" MBA August 10, 2011 with a built date of week 30, and 13.3" MBA purchased December 31, 2011 with a built date of week 50. So it's not a fluke, or works in a few cases. It works......

Mini-Mac wrote:

Your absolutely correct in the fact that it may not work in future updates. However it's worked for me since 10.7.0.

Turning Time Machine OFF will delete all Local snapshots (if there are a lot of them, that may take a while). Turning it back ON will start them again.

Any other behavior is a bug.

See OS X Lion: About Time Machine's "local snapshots" on portable Macs and #30 in Time Machine - Frequently Asked Questions.

Im not sure if it's a bug or built into Lion as a back door type function. I suspect that it's a function that's built into Lion for desktops but will work for mobile devices (laptops).

Yes, Local Backups are made, by default, on portable Macs but not on desktops. As noted in #30, they can be turned off independently on laptops, or on for desktops, via the tmutil command. I have an iMac, and routinely have them on for beta testing.

To my understanding local snapshot's are intended for mobile computers when a TM drive is not avaliable

Not exactly; they're made hourly, whether the TM destination is available or not -- they're completely independent of TM backups.

Debating this subject is a positive way of resolving what some may think (including me) is a problem. I just think my way is a better solution, to an unexperienced user that views there HD space being used up.

They see a solution on the internet that directs them to use Terminal for a fix (with warnings).

You wrote: "Turning Time Machine OFF will delete all Local snapshots (if there are a lot of them, that may take a while). Turning it back ON will start them again". Not in my procedure.

"Any other behavior is a bug". Possiblly.

You wrote: "Not exactly; they're made hourly, whether the TM destination is available or not -- they're completely independent of TM backups". Using my solution there are NO local snapshots stored in Backups.

The key to success is:

In Time Machine preferences

If you see: Time Machine keeps local snapshots as space permits, and: local snapshots Will be made

If you see: Time Machine keeps: local snapshots are Not made

Mini-Mac wrote:

. . .

They see a solution on the internet that directs them to use Terminal for a fix (with warnings).

The only "warning" should be about Terminal itself -- that folks should be careful when using it, as noted in the blue box in #30 of Time Machine - Frequently Asked Questions.

The TMUTIL command was supplied by Apple for that very purpose, among others. It is not some sort of "hack."

You wrote: "Turning Time Machine OFF will delete all Local snapshots (if there are a lot of them, that may take a while). Turning it back ON will start them again".

That's exactly how it's supposed to work, as detailed in the links posted earlier, and Apple Help:

" Any other behavior is a bug". Possiblly.

No, definitely. That's kinda the definition of a bug: something that doesn't work the way it's supposed to. And it's quite likely to be fixed in a future OSX update.

If you see: Time Machine keeps: local snapshots are Not made

Yes, as detailed several places. But that doesn't mean they won't start being made the next time you turn TM on, or after some other procedures where OSX resets the default behavior. Often, that's just starting from the Recovery HD and doing a Repair Disk; sometimes just starting from the Recovery HD or a Snow Leopard volume will do it.

But the main point is, in most cases it's unnecessary to bother turning them off manually in most cirumstances, since Time Machine will delete them as necessary if disk space gets too low. And they're not counted by the Finder or Get Info for that very reason).

Worse, if you turn them off when you don't need to, they're not available if something gets changed or deleted in error, or corrupted, when your normal TM backups aren't available.

Please review #30 in Time Machine - Frequently Asked Questions.

It has to be counting this space.

I keep ALL my media on an external drive... there are no videos, music files, pictures, etc to take up my disk space.

I went to clone my Bootcamp partition today (wanting to increase that partion size and finally found a way around reinstalling Windows), and I was alerterd my hard disk was full!!!!

I have "other" for 2 user accounts, and both are very LARGE. The one user account has not been used in over 2 years because it's jacked up. So, Lion is doing something to store extra data from an un-accessed user account.

By my manual calculations, I should have almost 100GB free... and I have 1.2!!!!

So is Time Machine caching backups then when it is disabled? Is there anyone to flush this crap out? Is this why my computer is wheezing like an asthmatic?

And ****, I wish I had my Snow Leopard disk still... because I'd kill this fat, stupid cat.