Can I install Snow Leopard on the new Mac Mini

For EVERYONE, and particularly for new visitors to this Discussion thread:

AN UPDATE and SUMMARY OF WHERE WE ARE

(and, everyone, feel free to add / differ with / correct / update what follows)

1) SNOW LEOPARD can be installed on the 2011 Mac Mini. It offers some particular challenges to folks who have the Server version, but it's possible for Snow Leopard to run (more or less) on every model of the 2011 Mini, at least so far as we know up to this point.

2) INSTALLING SNOW LEOPARD in place of Lion involves some complicated steps. Most anyone can do it, but you'll need access to some particular types of Snow Leopard "restore" disks and some Mac hardware to help you. The process was developed by John Fair, who has posted step-by-step instructions AND some updates and advice in earlier postings, here.

NOTE: we'll put up a SUMMARY OF INSTALLATION STEPS, here, in the next few hours for new visitors to this thread.

3) NOW THE BAD NEWS: Snow Leopard runs (currently!!) on the 2011 Minis at only about 30-40% of the speed that you'd expect considering the quite powerful hardware that comes with many of the 2011 Mini models. Some processes run even slower. Also, there are some hardware interface problems (external disk drives and some other peripherals don't run as expected, for instance, and there are various problems with cursors, etc.). These are due to problems with missing drivers in Snow Leopard and with "hook" code that's missing from the 2011 Minis. Some folks deal with these problems by running both Lion AND Snow Leopard, one each on two partitions, and bouncing back and forth.

4) But Snow Leopard DOES run, and for some users and some purposes, "slower" is plenty fast enough -- and much faster than not having Snow Leopard at all, expecially for people who need Rosetta to use legacy PowerPC software.

5) There is no explicit ban by Apple on running Snow Leopard on the Minis, no "poison pill" that's built in, but the 2011 Minis have new hardware and drivers that are built into OS X beginning with OSX 7 "Lion" and were NOT present in earlier versions, including Snow Leopard. That creates some problems, including the slowdown and various incompatibilities and inabilities to utilize some capabilities of all the spiffy powerful hardware. Remember, it has long been a rule that new Mac hardware will not run versions of OS software that preceded the hardware release -- so, we're seeking a minor miracle, here, and even the progress that has been achieved so far is a bit unexpected. (Actually, that "so far" progress is the source of much of the optimism that even more dramatic progress is possible!)

GOOD NEWS: Various folks are working on solving the Snow Leopard-on-2011-Mini problems. It's possible that modifications of some of the "hackintosh" approaches that have been developed to run OSX on non-Apple platforms in the past will allow the 2011 Minis to run Snow Leopard at a much better speed and will solve some or all of the driver / incompatibility problems. Results are still pending on this, but some bright coders are working on this and will post results here and at other online venues (including places like 123MacMini.com and MacRumors.com). We'll keep posting insights and results 'til we either get a breakthrough or it becomes clear that a breakthrough is unlikely or impossible.

One interesting possibility is to run a Snow Leopard "virtual machine" using one of the virtualization solutions that help run Windows on a Mac (and various other OS's, and even several instances of the same OS at the same time). If it works, that should be quite fast AND very capable, but so far it's not possible. Fast virtualization will require some extra RAM on your Mini, but 8 Gigs should be plenty enough for most purposes. Remember, this is just one proposed solution, and it hasn't been implemented yet.

REMEMBER: if the 10,000 views so far of this discussion thread are any indication, lots of people reeeeally want to be able to run Snow Leopard on their 2011 Minis, at least until Lion gains some more heft and capabilities. We recognize that a large chunk of the perceived OS X Lion "problem' is that various software developers haven't yet released new drivers for Lion -- or new versions of software that will allow a lot of legacy and recent software and hardware to run properly (or to function at all!) under OS X Lion. Personally, I like Lion, 'tho it requires some rethinking and re-learning of how to use a Mac and an acceptance that the new world of software and "cloud software" is going to be different from the old one.

Of course I, personally, would like to be able to use my existing high-end video and audio production equipment with my 2011 Mac Minis. Lion won't let me. And, I'd like to be able to run Rosetta with its full capabilities intact. So far, Lion won't let me, and Snow Leopard won't run quite well enough on the 2011 Mini. I want my kaka and eat it too, apparently, but I'm stubborn and I suspect that we'll soon be humming right along with Snow Leopard if the right coder (or company) gets interested in the problem and the project -- and makes the solution happen. I'm out of my depth on this one!

Dilemma = opportunity. Go get 'em, coders!!!

Hope this posting was mostly accurate -- and that it helps you.

Yes we can can! 😁 FREE THE SNOW LEOPARD 10,000 ! etc etc etc

John Fair, would you be willing to update and summarize your general instructions and post 'em again, here, since we are now approaching 10,000 viewers on this Snow-Leopard-on-2011-Minis thread?

I'm sure that a lot of folks would appreciate it. Also, if you'd like to message back to my email (I sent one to you a week or so back), I'll put up a little website where we can post even more detailed free info and directions to make it more readily accessible to visitors to this thread.

Hey Steve, I never got an email man 😟 Sorry...Are you sure it went through? Try again just in case. I'm usually quite punctual w/ responding to emails so if you don't get a response in a few hours (assuming I'm sleeping 😉 ) then try sending it again.

Anywho, sure I'd be willing to do another write up that's a bit more concise. I'm headed out for a bike ride now, but I could throw something together later on tonight.

Steve/John...I have written up the process that I used successfully which you should read and edit for the best possible "how-to" ultimate post. I am reachable via e-mail here from my profile. If you e-mail me, I can send it for your review.

khorning, thanks! Will contact you ASAP to get a summary up here; perhaps you and John can co-author it.

I suggest two levels of info in a summary update here on HOW TO INSTALL SNOW LEOPARD ON A 2011 MAC MINI:

-- a very brief and outline / introduction for folks who are just looking for an insight into what's possible,

-- also, an expansion with full details and helpful hints.

If it would be useful, I'll provide a small website to keep a running blog and other info to give some external support and supplement this thread in Support Communities / Discussions.

FYI as of Tues a-m, total views are now at 9,800 and still rising.

Something that really needs to be said:

My thanks to Apple Support staff for being patient and allowing the contribution that we're trying to make in this continuing thread. Our goal is to support and enhance the experience for the new (and extraordinarily capable!!) 2011 Mac Mini in all of its flavors -- and what's possible for it out-of-the-box. In this case, the Mini includes an (accidental, I suspect) Easter egg -- potential for Snow Leopard compatibility.

That there have been almost 10,000 views for this thread says something about the level of "need" and desire for that option -- at least, as an interim choice.

As I've said in previous posts, I'm a big supporter of Lion and where it's leading us. The future of computing is NOT the past. Ever. The short-term future is full of more changes than most of us can imagine, including sophisticated malware threats. Developers need to get their support act together for Lion.

iOS 5 and Lion are building in plenty of features and benefits aimed at a future that Apple can see -- a view that's still dim outlines in the fog for most of the rest of us.

In the meantime, we all have software to run and $$$$ invested in the boring old Present.

Again, thanks for giving us another reason to be Apple "fanpersons."

Steve Jolly wrote: ... The future of computing is NOT the past. Ever....

<rantReply>

Totally absurd. Why repeat mistakes of the past? And why remove wonderful features created in the past which are better than "new" ways to do things?

Answer: Apple is addicted to things that "look new", but in fact often are worse than the functions being replaced. They do this to wow people at Jobs-fests. A triumph of form over function, glitz over intelligence, fast-food over nutrition. Those huge burgers look SO GOOD in the publicity photos, don't they?

As an example: Removing the timeline control from Finder column previews; now all my movie previews are black. Progress? Nope. I am sure most of you who have used the Mac for more than a few years also see many of the new interface features as giant steps backwards in ease of use as well as functionality. You only have to read this thread to see this.

As I stated before, Apple wants to lure iPhone and iPad lovers into being new Macintosh owners, and to do that, it reduces the functionality of the Mac OS Lion to make it more "simple" and iPad-ish.

Now I have no objections whatsoever to Apple's doing this - Hurray, in fact! ... AS LONG AS they do not remove the features and ease of use that I have come to love, and depend on for productivity.

</rantReply>

William, thanks for the input.

Please note that my "absurd" post was just a thank-you -- to the Apple Support staff, here -- for allowing this thread to grow and pick up 10,000-plus views (over 10,200 as of Weds. morning 8/31) on a topic that is unusual (and could have been killed or limited some time ago for a number of reasons). My "Apple fanperson" comment was clearly aimed at the Support staff, not at Lion. However...

I also pointed out -- which is important to this thread's existence -- that this is NOT (in this forum, it's off-topic!) an anti-Lion thread or a Lion comment platform -- only because it's off-topic. And I said a couple of mild things approving of Apple's willingness to experiment with OS X. Given how OS X has added and adjusted features since 10.1 (and recent private comments from close friends in Apple coding), I expect to see some major (!!!) modifications and additions to Lion over the next few releases in response to customer feedback.

Even if you disagree with all of that (and I fundamentally agree with part of what you said), this is not the thread to post it in. There are dozens and dozens of threads about Lion, some scathing, in other parts of Support Communities. This is about running Snow Leopard on the 2011 Mac Mini, with or without Lion on the same machine (most experimenters, here, are keeping it on another partition).

We've all avoided -- up to this point -- getting into a "what's wrong with Lion" discussion here, solely for reasons related to the survival of the thread. As it happens I've been active in posting in many other forums on Lion outside of Support Community, and you'll find my full comments to be compatible with much of what you said, minus the cynicism about Apple's goals.

Can you take that part to another thread, just to help this one succeed? If it starts, here, it will get many responses and that will overwhelm and destroy the purpose and existence of this VERY USEFUL thread, to no benefit except to get in a slap at Apple. It may be deserved, or not, but not here, please. Fair enough request? Thanks!

Steve, thanks. But keep in mind another thread I subscribe to has 36,000+ views and 200+ replies since early May, and still no positive action by Apple. Not even a comment...

I wish you the best of luck, and all those here as well. And this thread does already contain many totally justified complaints. I just don't believe Apple cares. Or ever has, in my 26 yrs of dealing with them, including years as a developer, manufacturer, Apple-committee person, etc. Individuals in Apple do care, but matter little, sadly.

Care to take bets on which of the complaints in this thread are (a) fixed, (b) addressed or (c) even acknowledged?

Now, my direct response (slightly off-topic): if you take out the assumptions that I'm a Lion fanboy, my statement still stands, for better or worse (and it may certainly be for the worse, sometimes):

The future of computing is NOT the past. Ever...! That's not a moral or ethical proscription, just an observation for how it almost always IS in real life. The best we can generally do is to help preserve the lessons from what you rightly called "the mistakes of the past," so that the future works better! And thus the utility of being able to run Snow Leopard while the Lessons of the Past have time to sink in and Lion gets a few personality transplants.

William, let's see where Apple is truly going with Lion (and we can keep pushing the coders to retain / replace functions that are important, and add new ones to fit what needs the coders -- and we -- think that we "see" coming as the future rushes into the present).

In the meantime we can, right here, with some prodding and patches, perhaps get the Mini to run Snow Leopard at a good clip, and you can continue to prod Apple about Lion. Win-win-win!

You are certainly correct that Apple could be perceived differently in its "responsiveness to customer input" if it had some different PR rules and maybe a slightly different attitude about the process, but my experience is a little different than yours regarding where it all winds up. In the end, Apple pretty much gets it right -- with the caveat that, quite often, it's just not the same "right" that we expect. That's IMHO, and oh boy, your mileage and road surface can vary! Now, let's take this fun conversation to a different thread!

Yes we can can! 😁 FREE THE SNOW LEOPARD 10,000 ! etc etc etc

Great write up, very helpful. Question, do you know if this all applies to the new 2011 iMacs as well?

Hota117 wrote:

Great write up, very helpful. Question, do you know if this all applies to the new 2011 iMacs as well?

There has been nothing with the thoroughness of this thread, but the newest iMac seems to be a copy of the spring version, and thus 10.6.7 and 10.6.8 (which they were originally shipped with back in the spring) runs just fine on them.

Well Steve I gave up trying to get it to ru on any version of a 2011 mac mini. Just too slow. I have a mac pro and it is a 2010 model and I have a hdd with lion and an ssd with snow. I have an 2009 imac and it is all snow. so the mini and the imac can not always do what I want but the mac pro is like a rosseta stone for me and helps the mini and the imac talk and move files .

My biggest complaint is very simple. I lost out on 3 or 4 dj sales they all use serato sl2 with rane and it does not work with lion. So that end of my sales has died. next complaint why not ease the transtition all the 2011 models could hve just worked with both os x's and then phase out the snow in 2012. my hope is that snow will be speed up enough that it will work for me as a stopgap.

Philipma1957, your story is exactly what this thread is about. Nice summary! You have $$$ invested, capabilites wanted, great hardware available in the Mini, and -- Keep Hope Alive! As word spreads, an experienced hackintosh-er or OS X guru will perhaps tease out some missing or added components / code that are blocking Snow Leopard from running well on the 2011 Minis and can chart a path past the roadblocks. People are working on it. Hang in, and check in!

Remember, this situation is not unexpected: it's "standard practice" for any new Mac to be unable to run system software versions that were released before the new hardware came out, even if the hardware appeared only a few days after an OS update (sometimes you'll see a special OS interim update posted by Apple that's designed to support just that one particular new hardware variant). Actually, we're lucky that Snow Leopard is even semi-runnable on the new Minis, and that partial success gives real hope for significant future progress.

And, thanks, Cathy for your insight.

(Pure speculation follows!!!) -- even if the latest iMacs were truly new hardware ala the Mini -- since the iMacs use some components that are, in many ways, more "mainstream and robust" in their design than the mobile-market component versions that make up portions of the Air and the Mini, it's possible that new iMacs would have responded quite differently than do 2011 Minis. Meaning, truly "new" iMacs might have proven to be either much easier to persuade to boot and run Snow Leopard, or 'way, 'way harder to engineer an SL hack. As Cathy points out, it's really irrelevant to our project here because the latest iMacs WILL run SL just fine.

Please spread the word on our "challenge" to OS X gurus and capable hack coders, if you would, please! Note 10,400 views, here, and growing.

Yes we can can! 😁 FREE THE SNOW LEOPARD 10,000 ! etc etc etc!

I have a company to run, here, so I'll be offline for some hours. However -- again...

A current summary:

1) SNOW LEOPARD can be installed on the 2011 Mac Mini. It offers some particular challenges to folks who have the Server version, but it's possible for Snow Leopard to run (more or less) on every model of the 2011 Mini, at least so far as we know up to this point.

2) INSTALLING SNOW LEOPARD in place of Lion involves some complicated steps. Most anyone can do it, but you'll need access to some particular types of Snow Leopard "restore" disks and some Mac hardware to help you. The process was developed by John Fair, who has posted step-by-step instructions AND some updates and advice in earlier postings, here.

3) NOW THE BAD NEWS: Snow Leopard runs (currently!!) on the 2011 Minis at only about 30-40% of the speed that you'd expect considering the quite powerful hardware that comes with many of the 2011 Mini models. Some processes run even slower. Also, there are some hardware interface problems (external disk drives and some other peripherals don't run as expected, for instance, and there are various problems with cursors, etc.). These are due to problems with missing drivers in Snow Leopard and with "hook" code that's missing from the 2011 Minis. Some folks deal with these problems by running both Lion AND Snow Leopard, one each on two partitions, and bouncing back and forth.

4) But Snow Leopard DOES run, and for some users and some purposes, "slower" is fast enough to be helpful, even with some glitches -- and much faster than not having Snow Leopard at all, expecially for people who need Rosetta to use legacy PowerPC software or have non-Lion-compatible peripherals or projects.

More info on all of this continues to be posted as the thread grows.

NOTE: John Fair and otherw will put up a SUMMARY OF INSTALLATION STEPS, here, soon, for new visitors to this thread. We're working on it.

Yes we can can! 😁 FREE THE SNOW LEOPARD 10,000 ! etc etc
(And Apple: thanks for the super-hot Minis! We're adding some old-style frosting to your great new cake!)