save as missing in lion

Hi Yvan,

many people never use templates, as they can't bother to create a template for 3-4 documents written in a year in one program. Let us say, I am writing a letter to my telephone company to tell them this or that, and maybe two months later I will write a letter to my internet provider or something, and parts of the letter seem very similar, I will just open the first letter, "save as" and make the changes, then I am set.

In your logic, I would have

1. to go into finder,

2. rename the original letter into a template

3. double click on the template

4. "save" in the desired name.

To sell this as "this is how it is designed to be" sounds really really strange to me.

"Save as" has been on the Mac for ages and seemed, especially as a system-wide keyboard shortcut, a simple but very effective PLUS compared to PCs.

Now it is gone, and many people used it.

You can tell me 100 times that "save as" is not as it was designed, but that does not change my behaviour, and that I think it is very stupid to abolish it.

How can you or anyone tell me "how things should be done (tm)"??

Sometimes I am just realising that I probably want another "version" of a document under a new name while working on the document. I do not want to go into finder to do this.

And now with "duplicate" there is also no system-wide keyboard shortcut...

All the best

Martin

You are just misunderstanding me.

I rename azert.template every document which I plan to use as a starting point.

I don't store it in the folder dedicated to custom template because it would become too big.

When I want to write to my electrician, I navigate with the open dialog to reach the wanted document , maybe azert.template.

Doing that, I get a new document which I may edit as I want and save with the wanted name and the wanted location.

I'm not selling something.

I'm an end user like you but, beeing more than 67 years old, I don't try to fight against wind mills.

Apple made choices, good or wrong ones isn't the problem. At least for some weeks and probably for months or years, we have to use the applications as they are delivered.

Every other writings here are ipure rants because here you aren't speaking to Apple representatives.

Complaining zillions of times against Adele didn't changed its behavior.

Don't worry, there will not be fancy shortcuts linked to Duplicate. I tried to give it one. It worked as long as I didn't quit the app. Once I quitted it, the shortcut remains stored in the app preferences file but it's not available. I think that I understood why but I don't want to waste time with that.

Last not least, if you aren't satisfied by Pages, you are perfectly free to use an other tool.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 28 août 2011 21:19:46

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

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Yvan, next time I am in vallauris I will visit, remember even more than your age. I will bring the bottle.

Lex

Yvan,

OK, I understood your point, and I was not intending to rant, just to make sure you understand how I / some people use the "save as" dialogue and that it requires now to make at least one click more and leaving the keyboard instead of just one key operation before.

Introducing the new versions/autosave behaviour is fine with me, but to kill "save as" at the same time is something I do not understand.

Why should one kill it? Did it hurt?

After raising this here once I will shut up.

I made a feedback message to Apple and that is about it.

All the best to you,

Martin

Hi Martin, we miss "save as" too. But we do not have the possibility to look into the brains of the developers, so we do not know why it has gone, nor why it is "necessary", nor why it is "better. Have fun,

Lex

As I already explained, it's a design choice and it wasn't "necessary".

xCode was modified to match Lion's requirements, it continue to offer the menu items :

Save

Save As…

and it got a new one :

Duplicate

So, it seems clear that there was no coordination between different services and that the choice made for iWork and TextEdit was not dictated by the operating system.

It's just a way to accomodate the OS requirements, but it's not the unique one.

As End Users, we have no way to know which criterias pushed two teams to choose one formula and an other team to choose an other one.

Given that, the guys who wrote the System Help were forced to describe the two schemes.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) dimanche 28 août 2011 23:12:54

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Yvan,

thanks, this is indeed odd, but very interesting to know!

(the System help explanation I mean)

I thought it was a system wide decision and I know see the subtleties.

Thanks for pointing out.

Martin

I'm a bit nervous about that because I took time to post this screenshot several times, at a time when I assumed that it was desribing the features of new apps and the features of old apps.

And I posted it again some days ago when I saw that xCode designers made an other choice.

As I'm not a grand son of Sigmund Freud, I can't guess why a team made one choice and why an other one made a different one.

I just wished that wrong formulas continue to be used.

Lion isn't responsible of the choice made by iWork designers.

As Apple is hiring (or already hired) a new engineer to work upon iWork GUI, we may assume that choices aren't frozen.

Just be fair for helpers like me. Ranting here is useless and is annoying for those like me which try to be helpful. Most of what was written in this thread is useless but from time to time there was an useful info so it wouldn't be serious to leave without reading all that sh…

I repeat that here we are exchanging between end users.

The advices of pros Save As…

and the advices of those like me which aren't bored by the removal of this item are now well known.

This thread is long but it will not reach the record established by ranters against Final Cut Pro X so I feel that now, it's time to leave the courtyard and work with the apps.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) lundi 29 août 2011 00:00:51

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

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Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Thank you for starting this discussion, I thought I was going mad - there had to be a "Save As" option, but I couldn't find it. I thought, perhaps, that something had gone wrong with my Lion upgrade, because such an obviously fundamental option was missing, and Pages help menu still lists "Save As" as and option. So far I like pretty much everything about Lion, but the loss of a "Save As" option is baizarre. I don't want to have to work around this, I want the "Save As" option restored. Apple, please listen, we don't want to "think different" about this, and I really would prefer not having to use Word.

YIKES!!!

I do a lot of “quick and dirty” lists for clients, where the entire document is common with the exception of a single word/sentence or two, and I'm modifying them every few minutes, all day long.

With “Save As”, I can keep ONE document open on my screen, change a single word or two, then “Save As” the name of each individual client.

Now?

I’ve got to keep 10 (sometimes 15!) doc’s open at the same time, all with different names, then flip back and forth between them adding or removing a single word/sentence.

These are very simple lists, TextEdit is (was) all that’s required to handle them, and the removal of “Save As” makes it nigh upon impossible to quickly perform a Very Basic Task.

I tried using “Duplicate” as suggested, but it opened a new document on my Desktop.

Why would I want a duplicate document on my desktop? I don’t require a Duplicate on my desktop, I used to do what I needed with one document, and now I need 15-20 (or more?) open documents where one did exactly what I needed?

If I’m doing something wrong and a duplicate document should not appear on my desktop, please advise. Things are slow now, but I’ve got 110 clients, and I used to be able to manage all of them from one document.

If I need to have 110 open documents on my desktop, I’ll format the drive and return to Snow Leopard.

Thanks!

I do a lot of “quick and dirty” lists for clients, where the entire document is common with the exception of a single word/sentence or two, and I'm modifying them every few minutes, all day long.

With “Save As”, I can keep ONE document open on my screen, change a single word or two, then “Save As” the name of each individual client.

Now?

I’ve got to keep 10 (sometimes 15!) doc’s open at the same time, all with different names, then flip back and forth between them adding or removing a single word/sentence.

This sounds a lot like a mail merge, except you're not printing the documents I assume. If you are printing them…

Why not just use a template?

Nope, no printing.

And how is creating a Template quicker than clicking "Save As"? If it is, great, but anything that even adds another second to my workflow is maddening as all ****.

I'm already putting in 60 hours per week. Speed is EVERYTHING 😁

Hello Dale

It's what I'm saying since the delivery of Lion but it seems that most users don't understand what are templates made for.

All my documents are stored as template so the Lion new features change nothing in my own workflow.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 8 septembre 2011 16:43:48

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Okay, I'm missing something. Try as I may, I cannot find an option to create a Template in TextEdit.

Mind telling me where it's at? I seem to have gone blind this morning 😁