combining diacritical marks

Question

combining diacritical marks

Well, I just picked up Keynote 3. It still has the same bug as Keynote 2: the combining overline (unicode 305) doesn't work. Combined with "a" it is fine. Combined with "k" it isn't. The "over"line is added at the same height in the "k" as in the "a", and thus you get a bar through the "k" instead of a line over it. Keynote 1 works fine. I'd continue using Keynote 1 except for the fact the KN2 and now KN3 have a lot of nice features. The only way that I can get nice overlines is to use a line shape. Of course, it doesn't move with the text.

(In case you are wondering, I use the overlines to indicate antiparticles in presentations involving particle physics...)

I've submitted a bug report. I submitted one for KN2. Sigh.

15" PB 1 GB 20" iMac 1 GB Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Posted on Jan 17, 2006 10:33 PM

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Answer 1

Mr. Fizx

Level 2

210 points

Jan 18, 2006 6:04 AM in response to Robert Clare1

Robert—
Welcome to the boards.
The way I understand things, the problem is not with Keynote, but with Apple's decision to go with straight Unicode support. In OS 9 and early OS X (because of its backward compatibility with OS 9), diacritical marks were just additions to characters (an accent was always printed a few pixels above whatever character you were trying to add it to). Full Unicode support means that a character is available only if a supported language from around the world uses that character. Until we physicists and physics teachers start our own country, we won't have a supported language, which means antiparticles won't be supported...sigh

But, there is a workaround. I use TeX FoG and Equation Service (both free and readily available on the internet) to typeset equations in Keynote. They're high end programs that work like Equation Editor in Office apps. You can use them to input formulas and special symbols. This has the benefit of treating them as objects, which can easily be moved and transfered from one presentation to the next (for commonly used equations/symbols). It's worked quite well for the number of years I've been using it in the classroom.

Damian

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Answer 2

Jan 18, 2006 7:24 AM in response to Mr. Fizx

Well, actually, it does appear to be Keynote, since my version of Keynote 1 that I still have still works! With exactly the same character palette as with Keynotes 2 and 3. Sigh.

At any rate, they should call the character a "combining overline" if it isn't an overline!

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Answer 3

Rod Fryer

Level 4

1,873 points

Jan 18, 2006 8:26 AM in response to Robert Clare1

I've used MathType in maths Keynote presos. It does what you're after, Robert.

The difference, of course is that it's not freeware, but I find its versatility very useful.

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Answer 4

Jan 18, 2006 8:30 AM in response to Rod Fryer

Well, in a separate email exchange, it was pointed out that the combining macron (unicode 304) does work now. It isn't as pretty as it was in KN1, but it works.

I still think that is a bug when an overline is not an overline, but for now, I am back in business.

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Answer 5

Jan 18, 2006 8:33 AM in response to Rod Fryer

Mathtype has the same problem that Latex Equation Editor (that I use) has: it adds an object, which doesn't move with text. It is fine for math that you have broken out of text, but it isn't so great for "inline" math...

Pages introduced a way of having objects tied to text so that they move when you edit text; I haven't checked to see whether Keynote has this by now.

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Answer 6

Rod Fryer

Level 4

1,873 points

Jan 18, 2006 8:49 AM in response to Robert Clare1

Mathtype has the same problem that Latex Equation Editor (that I use) has:

Agreed, Robert, but I try and limit my use of text onscreen as much as possible - different type of presos to yours maybe. When I do use text to show developments in proofs/solutions, I just write them up in text-mode (shift-command-E) in MathType and copy/paste the lot. Different terms in a block of text can be differently coloured or differently sized for emphasis etc. Looks good in KN.

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Answer 7

Jan 18, 2006 12:29 PM in response to Robert Clare1

Did you try with unicode 304 (combining macron) as well?

If it works on this web page it looks like k̄ instead of k̅.

Edit: OK, that was not pretty. But try it with other fonts like Gill Sans, and it may look better.

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