After Lion Upgrade - Autosave failed!

I repeat that here it behaves flawlessly.

You are three users reporting this behavior

when Lion was bought by more than one million of customers.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 6 août 2011 14:34:36

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Hi fruhulda

Everything is ruled by a SQL database which stores infos about our changes so, if we don't change something by ourself, the displayed doc is the recent one.

To be more precise, the document saved as (just an example) in

<startupVolume>:Users:<myAccount>:Documents:azertyuiop.pages

contains the late version.

If you move it in an other location, it will drop references to the older versions.

The different versions are stored in the folder

<volume>:.DocumentRevisions-V100:

where <volume> is the device in which the document is stored.

Details available in :

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3195261?answerId=15843120022#15843120022

Re: Disable autosave

4 août 2011 16:45

and in :

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4753

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 6 août 2011 17:06:02

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Interesting information Yvan.

Will you understand if I write in size 36 ?

This afternoon, I ran Lion during one hour and a half.

I opened ten documents, added sentences and left them while I was busy in AppleScript or correcting Apple resources which were translated in a French resembling to what we get translating English with Google translate.

ten minutes before returning in Snow Leopard, I closed every windows and of course, knowing this thread I reopened the docs.

Everything was perfectly stored.

I repeat : you are three users describing a problem. You aren't statistically significant.

When we got questions about data loss under Snow Leopard, the common request was : Apple, give us an AutoSave feature. It wasn't : Apple, your OS is rotten. And we got this kind of things more than three times a week.

I receive more than three times a week, iWork documents corrupted so that they can't be open by the app. Nobody ranted as you are doing.

Compare your machines, compare your systems, send your System Profile so that I may file them to Apple which will be able to compare them trying to understand where is the wrongdoer.

It's the correct way to treat seriously this kind of oddity. I will not cross the ocean to extract the datas by myself from your machines. I'm not sure that your system Profiles would be sufficient to identify the culprit but without this kind of data it will remain unknown.

I apologize but at this time I feel that the time which I passed in this thread was wasted time.

We didn't advance of a single millimeter.

So, now my decision is taken.

I will no longer post in this thread as long as I don't get your three System Profiles.

Have fun !

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) samedi 6 août 2011 21:39:47

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

fruhulda wrote:

Due to not having Lion I can't replicated you instructions but when I read them I one thought. What says that Recent file is the very last saved one? Have you tried opening the latest document in any other way?

Yes, and it doesnt matter in which way I open the document.

@coxorange

Havent had any issues with cmd-S. Works reliably.

You installed Lion above Snow Leopard and you get an odd behavior.

In thread

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3220103?answerId=15947863022#15947863022

we may read :

My solution above turned out only to be temporary. After a while Pages pretty much became unusable, even hanging the whole system on numerous occasions. I ended up starting another thread and following the advice there to do a clean install of Lion and iWork. Did that and now all is well, with autosave and versions working as they should and Pages no longer hanging.

Since the opening of this thread, I wrote that I work with a system installed on a blank hard disk and that every features behave flawlessly.

It seems clear that installing on an existing system may give odd behaviors.

The fact that your Snow Leopard system behaved flawlessly isn't forgiving a possible oddity linked to the new system applied upon old one. Many explanations may be given to such behavior.

(a) an old oddity which didn't surface before

(b) lion may decipher wrongly an old preferences file.

…

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 17 août 2011 12:23:19

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

If nobody reported the behavior which you got during the beta test of Lion, and possible odd interferences with iWork was unable to find because the package wasn't delivered to testers, Apple had no reason to ask us to apply a clean install.

Now that Lion is used by more than one million of customers, a few number of them got an odd behavior.

They may wait for years for a solution because it's not sure that the described oddity may be escalated.

On the other hand, they may apply a scheme which give immediately a correct behavior.

It's the same choice than the one applying to system updates.

The standard scheme is to use Software Update to apply delta updaters. Alas, from time to time this scheme fails. Most of the time, there is no proven explanation of this failure. The only case where the oddity was identified is the delta updater 10.6.2 which failed to install some fonts. Those waiting a correction thru Software Update are always waiting.

Those wanting to be efficient applied the alternate scheme : apply the combo updater.

Behave as you want.

When I received my new imac, it was delivered with 10.6.6.

I updated it to 10.6.8 then I restored my datas from a backup.

To be honest, I don't remember if I did that from Time Machine or from the clone which I created with Carbon Copy Cloner. I lost nothing and worked with a clean machine.

On my external HD with 10.7, I didn't transferred all my datas because it's just a "system_used_for_tests"

What's sure is that except if Apple deliver a Lion updater stating clearly that they escalated your problem, the day I will switch completely to Lion, I will not play with matches, I will install on an emptied HD.

What's sure is that since 2011/07/31, you are fighting with a system which isn't behaving as it's supposed to do. You make me think to some beings refusing to take an umbrella to protect them from the rain because the weather report wrongly announced that sun would shine.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 17 août 2011 16:01:56

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

coxorange wrote:

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

If nobody reported the behavior which you got during the beta test of Lion, and possible odd interferences with iWork was unable to find because the package wasn't delivered to testers, Apple had no reason to ask us to apply a clean install.

Now that Lion is used by more than one million of customers, a few number of them got an odd behavior.

Maybe the problem was introduced by that Pages-update-for-Lion? The beta testers hadn't that either.

They may wait for years for a solution because it's not sure that the described oddity may be escalated.

On the phone they sounded pretty alerted, hence I guess the problem was escalated - after all it's a matter of safety.

Good news. But

(1) I'm really skeptical about a direct link between the iWork components and the Lion installer because many users applied the standard scheme like you. And as I already wrote you are only three reporting this behavior here. Sometimes what appear as a minor detail may be the culprit or may be useful to discover the true problem. In your case, as you were not asked to send a system profile, I guess that a registered developer got the same behavior and filed a report with his system profile.

(2) safety problems may be due to third party products and haven't to be treated by Apple. Thery aren't responsible of external developers oddities but to my knowledge sometimes they help to correct such products.

Some years ago, some users got their external HD contents killed by a system update. Of course the first reaction was : Apple developers made an error. Some days later the culprit was identified : some FireWire controller were wrongly bult. They didn't implemented one or two instructions well defined in the FireWire specs and of course, as the installer used them, some odd behavior surfaced. The HD manufacturers quickly delivered a firmware update for their devices but I never knew if applying it revived the stored datas.

the delta updater 10.6.2 which failed to install some fonts. Those waiting a correction thru Software Update are always waiting. Those wanting to be efficient applied the alternate scheme : apply the combo updater.

OT - but which fonts are missing? Would like to check this.

OS X 10.6.2 was supposed to receive two corrected fonts :

Hoefler Text.ttc ( version 6.1d7e1 )

STHeiti Medium.ttc ( version 7.0d6e1 )

When I received my new imac, it was delivered with 10.6.6.

I updated it to 10.6.8 then I restored my datas from a backup.

To be honest, I don't remember if I did that from Time Machine or from the clone which I created with Carbon Copy Cloner. I lost nothing and worked with a clean machine.

OK, after doing such a "clean Lion install" (Do you mean, from a DVD made from that dmg file contained in the Lion installer app?)

When I bought Lion, the Installer was downloaded on my machine and the process started automatically.

When the first dialog with a button appeared, I quitted the installer.

This way, as I wrote several times, I was easy to build a bootable USB memory stick containing the active part of the installer. In fact doing that, I built what Apple delivers now for users with no Internet connection or some other reasons. I invented nothing, it's what Apple asked the buyers of high numbers of licences to apply. I guess that now they deliver them their official USB memory stick which is write protected so that they can't be used to borrow infos from the machines.

- how could one decide which files to restore manually from a Time Machine backup?

I guess there would be three possible outcome options:

- not enough files restored, missing apps/parts of apps/configuration files...

- perfect manual restore (unlikely!)

- too much files restored, clean install ruined!

Not at all simple. I'm no tinkerer. I have no idea how to do this right and I think Apple wouldn't support it, would they?

I never ask Apple the permission to do this or that in my machines.

I used the clone made with Carbon Copy Cloner.

At the end of the system's installation process we are asked to restore infos from different sources.

I selected restore from the clone.

What's sure is that except if Apple deliver a Lion updater stating clearly that they escalated your problem, the day I will switch completely to Lion, I will not play with matches, I will install on an emptied HD.

Same problem: how exactly? (Not to do anything wrong!)

I will apply the Lion installer

apply the updaters or the updater if they deliver a combo updater for Lion 10.7.2

Then I will restore datas from the clone of the 10.6.8 HD made just before erasing it.

I always did that long before Apple deliver Time Machine.

What's sure is that since 2011/07/31, you are fighting with a system which isn't behaving as it's supposed to do. You make me think to some beings refusing to take an umbrella to protect them from the rain because the weather report wrongly announced that sun would shine.

I'm not fighting! Do you think I would be stupid enough to install a new op system on my one and only working machine? Never. We have 3 other Macs running Snow Leo. The 4th, with Lion, is not critical for our work. Nevertheless I want a solution which is easy, without risk and reliable which an average user can apply. Do I ask for too much? Seems the times have changed...

Most of the time, the standard scheme give good results but as you saw, I wrote "Most of the time" which means that sometimes it fails.

After every update, minor ones like switch from 10.6.2 to 10.6.3 or major ones like the switch from 10.6 to 10.7, we may read reports from users which got odd behaviors applying the standard process.

On my side if I remember well the unique update which I made this way was the one from 10.6.5 to 10.6.6 because due to a hardware problem I was unable to download the combo updater 10.6.6. A few days later, I downloaded it with my daughter's machine and apply it upon the already updated system.

Some times later I received a replacement machine which was delivered with 10.6.6 installed.

I have no reason to think that you are stupid. I just know that since the delivery of Lion, I saw rants from users whose behaviour match what you described as requiring to be "stupid enough". And alas, they weren't the first ones and will not be the last ones.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 17 août 2011 21:59:59

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !