Save As, Gone?

If you wish to keep a copy of the document in the state were it was when you opened it I already described two schemes

(1) define it as a template so you will get a copy which will save nothing in the original

(2) duplicate the doc just after opening it and close the original.

I already posted a script doing that for Pages and for Numbers.

I feel that it would not be too difficult to extend it to other applications.

Replacing Save As… by Duplicate is not a workaround but a design choice.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 16:46:11

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

I used deliberately the word "rant" because

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped MacWrite

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Hypercard

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped SCSI HD

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Mac OS 9

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped floppy disks

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped the ADB keyboard and introduced USB

we got the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in MacBook Air

we are getting the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in Mac Mini

Every change which Apple introduced was accompannied by the ranters choir

but happily the changes remain and the ranters now feel that what they critisized behave well and fit their needs.

Every important changes in the mankind story were made by minorities, not by majorities.

Just an exemple, when France abolished capital execution, which was a good decision, it was voted in the parliament. Asking citizen to vote in a referendum wouldn't have abolished it.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 16:54:43

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

Yes Yvan, I have seen your advice, and it's good to know that there are several workarounds, not just one. And although I prefer to call "Duplicate" a workaround, do allow me to thank you for your good contributions both in this thread and in general for many years.

As one of those who dearly misses "Save As," I was wondering if there is a way to revert back to the previous version of Pages (while still maintaining Lion, in general).

Re install iWork 9.0.5.

(1) if you got iWork thru mac App Store you may only retrieve the old version if you backuped it with Time Machine.

(2) if you bought the package iWork, you must uninstall completely the version 9.1 (uninstaller available on my iDisk)

For_iWork:iWork '09:uninstall iWork '09.zip

re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

(3) But it's fighting uselessly. The change wil continue, with you or without you. The next major update of iWork will be optimized for Lion and will take benefit of every new features including, of course, AutoSave and Versions.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 17:34:55

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

I never saw a workaround clearly described in the System's Help.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 17:44:01

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1436 ?

(3) But it's fighting uselessly. The change wil continue, with you or without you.

For some it may still be a good way to delay the inevitable, e.g. for finishing work using the old workflow before moving to another application. Also, given the reports about problems with Keynote, this could be a way to get work done while we wait for Apple. Thanks for your assistance.

Jardar Abrahamsen wrote:

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

re install from your original copy, apply the updater 9.0.5 which is no longer available in Apple Web Pages but which may be downloaded from my iDisk

For_iWork:iWork '09:iWork9Update5.dmg.zip

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1436 ?

Thanks

Glad to learn that they re introduced it.

When I saw that it was gone, I file a message about that and uploaded the updater on my iDisk.

I'm not checking everyday if the updater is back.

It's really back and it's a good news. I will remove it from my iDisk. 😉

If you uninstall iWork without my script, don't forget to remove the folder :

Macintosh HD:Library:Application Support:iWork '09:Frameworks:

The set of files of version 9.1 aren't compatible with 9.0.5 and I'm afraid that seeing a version more recent than its own one the installer doesn't replace it.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 18:19:00

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

I used deliberately the word "rant" because

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped MacWrite

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Hypercard

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped SCSI HD

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped Mac OS 9

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped floppy disks

we got the same reactions when Apple dropped the ADB keyboard and introduced USB

we got the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in MacBook Air

we are getting the same reactions about the removal of optical unit in Mac Mini

Every change which Apple introduced was accompannied by the ranters choir

but happily the changes remain and the ranters now feel that what they critisized behave well and fit their needs.

In every case you cite (with the possible exception of HyperCard), there was an immediate fix on the horizon that provided the *same* functionality and did not involve a *loss* of functionality. If you went to the new paradigm (e.g., OS9>OS10; floppies>CDs>thumb drives; ADB>USB), you were able to do exactly what you had been able to do previously…you just had to invest in new hardware/software.

This is not the case with the eliminating of Save As in favor of Versioning and Auto-Save. Apple has taken a system that has worked exactly the same way for 25+ years — a system that worked perfectly well for most folks' needs — and thrown it right out the window.

It's very clear from the many comments and examples here and elsewhere that this change will needlessly complicate and interrupt the workflow of many who have never had a problem in need of solving. It's nice that it may work better for some, but I'm far from convinced that the majority of Mac users need or want Versioning for their needs.

I'm hoping that Apple hears our many cries and makes Auto-Save/Versioning a choice, while reinstituting Save As for the many of us who feel Apple has fixed something that wasn't broken.

Given the numbers of users which were complaining about the document upon which they worked two or three hours which was gone because their machine quitted for an unknown reason when the work was not saved, I'm not sure that the system was perfect as you wrote.

It was just matching your old habits.

You will have to learn new habits and in january 2012 you will be surprised to see that you will be at ease with the new paradigm.

It's time to understand that in some months, iOS and OSX will behave the same, for the best and for the worst.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) jeudi 18 août 2011 23:23:07

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

KOENIG Yvan wrote:

Given the numbers of users which were complaining about the document upon which they worked two or three hours which was gone because their machine quitted for an unknown reason when the work was not saved, I'm not sure that the system was perfect as you wrote.

It was just matching your old habits.

No, it was matching EVERYONE'S old habits, because this was the way it worked for 25+ years for anyone who had a Mac.

Furthermore, a user who works on a document for two or three hours without saving it gets ZERO sympathy from me when he or she loses it. For the sake of a few idiots who flout one of the most basic rules of computing, the rest of us should suffer?

In addition, if you fall into that idiot category, there have been shareware and freeware products for a long time now that save your documents automatically at specified intervals. There's one now made specifically for Pages, ForeverSave Lite.

I will repeat: AutoSave and Versioning should be an *option*, not the only way of doing things. I made the point in my last post, which you conveniently ignored, that this new way will at best complicate, or at worst seriously disrupt, the workflow of a great many. Give us a choice.

I'm not one of those which fail to save their work.

I repeat very often in the forums that the basic rule is backup, backup and backup but choices aren't made upon the behavior of experienced users, they are made upon representative users and we must understand that most of them aren't taking care of the basic rule.

As the goal is to grab new customers among beings which never use a computer, the choice made by Apple make sense.

I didn't wait your advice about backup and iWork. I delivered a FREE autosave script which do what the ForeverSave pro achieve.

It keep chronological backups which are highly better for safety than the simple automated save applied by ForeverSave Lite.

I didn't ignored your late post, I just disagree with it. I explained several times my advice about that but I don't wish to behave as a parrot.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) vendredi 19 août 2011 08:27:21

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

To be the AW6 successor, iWork MUST integrate a TRUE DB, not a list organizer !

just adding that I hate the new duplicate feature and want "save as" brought back..... my normal work flow now involves numerous more steps than it did before.... how can this be regarded as an improvement.

There's even a Hitler rant video about the 'save as' missing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZksFkF4S4qI

Wouldn't it take some extra time to search for that earlier version (from before the wild restructuring) if Autosave has created, say, 20 versions in the meantime?

The Auto Save feature does not create versions. The Versions feature is separate and does not work as frequently as Auto Save.

Quite a few of us would, as we know, like to have the option not to save everything they do. At the same time it must be confessed that Autosave and Versions can be useful in some situations

But then on the other hand, for many of us it's now too easy to save something that one didn't want to be saved.

You've lost me with these comments. They make no sense given the work I write documents and how I've seen others work.

I simply don't understand how it makes any difference to how a person writes a document if it is auto saved or not. The way you edit the document is the same. You will write the same words, delete the same words, rearrange text on a page the same. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you to explain this to me, but I don't understand how it makes any difference to the way you write if a document is autosaved.

Of course, the dismissed "Save as" and the new "Duplicate" are just a workaround for dealing with Versions and Autosave. "Save as" would not make much sense when the original file has already been auto-saved. So there is an internal logic to it.

Again, I don't understand your logic here.

The Duplicate feature is not a workaround for the Versions or the Auto Save features. There was no technical need to replace the Save As feature with a more complicated Duplicate feature. These features are all separate and have different purposes.

The Versions feature is an entirely new feature - it's Time Machine for your documents. The Auto Save feature replaces using the File > Save menu repeatedly. The Duplicate menu does the same thing the Save As menu did - duplicates an existing document and gives it a new name and location.

In other words: an option in the preference settings would be nice.

The last thing we need is another preference setting, especially when a preference to turn on/off Auto Save won't fix the complaints people are making.

The problems many are complaining about are:

1. The two step process to duplicate a file. That is, click Duplicate then click Save As. They want the old one step process.
2. The original and duplicate file both remain open in Pages. They want just the duplicate file to remain open.
3. Having to unlock a document that has not been used in weeks. They want to just to open a document and use it.

The best solution is just to change the Duplicate menu to address these complaints. Unfortunately (in my opinion), this means we end up with the Save As command. That is, Apple force me to save the document immediately I duplicate it, and Apple close the original document and force me to find and then open the original again.

I'd rather Apple change OS X Lion so that the File > Duplicate menu toggles between two functions. The normal File > Duplicate command could work as it is. But holding down the Option key changed it to the File > Quick Duplicate function that fixes the 3 problems above.