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Level 1

128 points

Is Apple going to fix OS X 10.7 Lion?

I have been having many problems with OS X 10.7 Lion since I installed it.

I have spent hours every day trying to find answers on here and I have tried everything. I haven't seen any posts where any of the issues I have been experiencing have been properly fixed.

I note that as of this moment there are 14005 threads about Lion - just over two weeks since its release, compared with 83617 for Snow Leopard which has been out for over two years. Admittedly, many threads concern the novel ways which Lion is installed, but even so, I mean come on! 16.75% of the threads in 2.273% of the time?

There are many threads covering the same topics and I have tried everything in my armoury as well as every suggestion. I'm not asking for any more technical support from well meaning people who are simply repeating the same suggestions ad nauseam to a growing number of people who are getting increasingly fed up.

There are people who have had positive Lion experiences and people who have had bad Lion experiences. I only read the same repeated suggestions from people with good Lion experiences - I am yet to read of anybody who has had a bad Lion experience and has fixed it. And by bad, I don't mean that they can't get used to natural scroll direction and needed to be show how to change it in the System Preferences. I mean bad like startup still taking several minutes and applications being unresponsive for about ten minutes after first hitting the power button.

I just want to list the problems I have had and which I am still having nearly after over two weeks and having re-installed Lion several times by different means, App Store, Utilities Partition, burned DVD, re-download. Fixed permissions, ran disk utility, reset the PRAM, reset SMC, cleaned caches, booted in Safe Mode etc. etc. not just once or twice but many times each. I do not have restore windows selected and I always deselect 'Reopen windows when logging back in'. I have allowed Spotlight to fully complete its indexing on every installation - the last few installations I have completely left it alone for an hour or however long it took.

Reluctantly, I even removed my Windows partition - though I don't regret that now - but it was there for a reason. That was one of the main causes of installation problems that I had read about but it had not affected my installation. Anyway, I did two further Lion installations after that and it made zero difference.

My inventory:

Slow startup, three minutes plus. The only way I have managed to reduce this my ten seconds was to turn off automatic login so that I didn't have to type my password.

Can't use any applications for up to ten minutes after startup - constant SBBoD.

Slow finder, frequent SBBoD when opening windows - windows are empty for up to thirty seconds.

Slo-o-o-ow scrolling. Just occasionally but s-o-o-o annoying.

MacBook Pro gets very hot. I have had to buy a gizmo for it to sit on to allow more air to flow under it. It was never this hot under Snow Leopard.

Save dialogue boxes also slow - also don't show folder content for up to thirty seconds.

Frequent drops in WiFi - evident either as lost connection to server alerts or the new look Safari cannot connect page informing me that I am not connected to the internet.

Video frequently freezing in QT and VLC. Strange garbled images when going to full screen - bits of desktop mangled up with bits of screensaver - incidentally, I selected Higher performance graphics in the Energy Saver preference pane but that didn't make a difference and seems to reset itself on every reboot.

General video performance.

My MacBook Pro does not go to sleep as per the settings in Energy Saver. It only sleeps when I shut the lid and never if I leave it open.

Battery life is greatly reduced, probably due to the last point.

Time Machine almost always active, mainly because it takes so long to start and cleanup but a 12MB backup can take 45 minutes. Then 15 minutes later it starts again.

Many frequently visited web [pages no longer look the same, particularly pages with embedded YouTube videos and images in frames, as much as half the video image is obscured. I have revisited with other browsers and they look fine.

Launchpad appearing empty with the words Looking for applications for ages after every reboot.

Anything to do with Flash and Safari is messed up. YouTube controls don't work properly and they have the same odd behaviour in other things like Google NASDAQ graphs - the cursor is 'sticky'. This doesn't happen in Firefox.

Pages randomly reloading - especially when using more than one tab. Very, very annoying when filling in forms etc. and you have to start again from scratch.

Typing often freezes for several seconds, mainly in Safari but also in Text Edit.

Not to mention the Mail fiasco on my first installation. I lost everything and had to manually import everything from a backup.

And I haven't the inclination to even start on the new 'features' which cannot be disabled.

So, are Apple going to fix it?

MacBook Pro 17' 2.66GHz, Mac OS X (10.7), 8GB RAM, 500GB HD (225GB free)

MacBook Pro 17' 2.66GHz, Mac OS X (10.7), 8GB RAM, 500GB HD

Posted on Aug 7, 2011 5:45 PM

80 replies

D0GG

Level 3

957 points

Aug 16, 2011 4:04 PM in response to Alf Megson

Have you updated to 10.7.1? I was made live about 1 hour ago.

Level 7

24,005 points

Aug 16, 2011 4:06 PM in response to Alf Megson

So many people cannot control their Loins!

Alf Megson Author

Level 1

128 points

Aug 16, 2011 4:11 PM in response to D0GG

Is that question levelled at me?

If so, please read the post you are answering before posting...

etresoft

Level 8

47,378 points

Aug 16, 2011 4:46 PM in response to Alf Megson

Alf Megson wrote:

I doubt very much it was my ReadyNAS duo which has two virtually brand new disks which are otherwise performing flawlessly.

ReadyNAS uses Netatalk, which is junk. It is Netgear's responsibility to safeguard your data when using Time Machine on hardware that Apple does not support. Please direct your complaints to them.

Alf Megson Author

Level 1

128 points

Aug 16, 2011 5:02 PM in response to etresoft

And the 5-10 Wifi dropouts per hour would not have had anything to do with it, right.

Funny, eh, not a single problem between Time Machine and my ReadyNAS Duo for nine months. I used it just a few days ago to retrieve a preference file that my latest reinstallation of this non-cooperating system had thoughtfully lost.

Lion is then installed, causing WiFi issues which are widely reported and one of the only problems that Apple have acknowledged (from many) and fixed in 10.7.1 and you have the gall to blame NetGear. Funny that none of my other equipment has had any problem connecting to the ReadyNAS Duo either.

You should work as a spin doctor for the UK Government, they need people who can talk garbage with pompous authority.

etresoft

Level 8

47,378 points

Aug 16, 2011 6:32 PM in response to Alf Megson

Alf Megson wrote:

you have the gall to blame NetGear. Funny that none of my other equipment has had any problem connecting to the ReadyNAS Duo either.

Not entirely. You also share some of the blame for installing and using Lion with incompatible hardware. Netgear seems to have promply released an update with Lion support on July 20th. Did you install it?

justAnn

Level 1

0 points

Aug 16, 2011 9:32 PM in response to a brody

But when you have done allllll of that, set and re-set your wifi settings ---checked your router....done EVERYTHING you didn't have to do a couple of days before when everything was running seamlessly with Snow Leopard, just because you wanted the NEWEST LATEST (like I did ) just when you do all of that - hmmmm WIFI doesn't work. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened to cause the problem. I have other pcs that run just fine on my router & wifi account. But the two I so happen to derive my livlihood from (apple macbook pros) ---well, they are just sad and pointless until I hang on for the next update because this one tonite didn't do a single noteable thing.

Alf Megson Author

Level 1

128 points

Aug 17, 2011 1:47 AM in response to etresoft

You quote me and say, 'Not entirely'. Not entirely what? None of my other equipment had any problem connecting to my ReadyNAS Duo - that is entirely true. The previous poster had blamed NetGear and I said they had gall for doing so under the circumstances. That too is entirely true.

Incompatible hardware? Hmmm...

I think there are many thousands of stunned Mac/ReadyNAS users who were stunned that there Macs suddenly could no longer connect via AFP to Time Machine volumes on their ReadyNAS. It wasn't a hardware incompatibility - they had been playing perfectly happily for years before I bought my ReadyNAS Duo, it was a software incompatibility.

Or maybe you are suggesting that nobody should use any hardware which does not bear the Apple brand and use Apple software, in which case, Mac users would not be able to print, scan or connect to the internet as these all depend on third party devices and drivers etc.

Yes, I did install the updated RAIDiator and the subsequent release.

Dogcow-Moof

Level 8

36,345 points

Aug 17, 2011 1:52 AM in response to Alf Megson

Or perhaps Netgear should have used the at least six months they had access to pre-release seeds of Mac OS X Lion to fix their AFP issues.

Alf Megson Author

Level 1

128 points

Aug 17, 2011 2:39 AM in response to Dogcow-Moof

What the @£&% are you talking about?

Are NetGear responsible for the WiFi drop outs introduced in Lion?

Wifi drops wouldn't interfere with a Time Machine backup <sarcasm>would they?!</sarcasm>

Maybe NetGear are responsible for the other problems about which people are complaining!

Slow boot, finder/application hangs, multiple Safari problems, video issues, etc.etc. ad infinitum.

Level 7

24,005 points

Aug 17, 2011 5:21 AM in response to Alf Megson

Netgear Fanboy!

etresoft

Level 8

47,378 points

Aug 17, 2011 6:19 AM in response to Alf Megson

What "ad infinitum"? Most people aren't having any trouble with Lion at all. 10.7.1 fixes a handful fo specific bugs for a few people. Most people won't notice any difference. The WiFi drop outs you are experiencing could be entirely unrelated to Lion. Did Lion cause all of the WiFi drop outs that plague hundreds (out of tens of millions) of iPad users? Wireless networking is complicated stuff and it is impossible for Apple to test every 3rd party device. They build to the published standards, test with the post popular equipment, and hope for the best.

Apple knows that networking, wireless or Ethernet, is never 100% stable. They built and tested the AFP server in MacOS X Server and Time Capsule to handle drop outs. Did the makers of Netatalk do that? To their credit, they did add support for the new DHX2 security protocol some time ago. When did Netgear update their equipment to use that new version? They only did it on July 20th when it stopped working. They could have done it long ago and spared their customers any hassle whatsoever.

It is the responsibility of Mac users to make sure that their 3rd party products work with new Apple equipment. Apple has no control and little influence on these other companies. It is Apple's customers' responsibility to do research and purchase the most compatible equipment possible. For example, my Canon printers all work fine with Lion. It would likely be a different story with HP.

I'm sorry you are having trouble with your machine. I would like to help fix it, but as long as you claim the fault is entirely with Lion and refuse to try to find out what is causing the problem, you will never get it fixed. The problems you have are not shared by the millions of other Lion users. No Lion update will ever fix them. Just because you see similar complaints here on this technical support forum does not mean they are universal problems. The only part about these problems that is typical is that they are typically reported by people with every software update. There are many people here on Apple Support Communities that are willing and able to help you diagnose and fix the problem. The first step is to meet us halfway and consider the possibility that it isn't a software bug that is causing the problems. It could be a bug, but with literally millions of people who don't see the problem, it is 100% your responsibility to prove the existence of this bug.

Dec 27, 2011 10:47 AM in response to etresoft

Most people aren't having trouble with lion because they don't do anything but facebook and email. I got my

wife a new laptop in sept and it's on lion. I knew immediatly not to put it on my 2010 17 inch. I saw my speeds

tank and problems arise when I upgraded from tiger on my older laptop. And now I'm dealing with getting her

xmas present, a firewire back up drive to be bootable for when the hard drive fails, and they all do. Apple has

CHOSEN to make it a total pita. Poor Steve wasn't even gone before they started screwing with a winning

formula. But I guess the writing was on the wall when they came out with the syncing crap on their ipods. I just

hope they wake up or a new company comes along with their old values of privacy and individualism. I don't

consider "JUST APPLE" having data on everything I do with my computers privacy. It was a good 12 year run

for me and I hope to get about six more out of this machine.

etresoft

Level 8

47,378 points

Dec 27, 2011 11:24 AM in response to 12yearsandimdone

12yearsandimdone wrote:

Most people aren't having trouble with lion because they don't do anything but facebook and email.

It is safe to say I do a fair bit more than that.

I got my wife a new laptop in sept and it's on lion. I knew immediatly not to put it on my 2010 17 inch. I saw my speeds tank and problems arise when I upgraded from tiger on my older laptop.

Such problems are usually caused by incompatible 3rd party software. Going from Tiger to Lion is a big jump.

And now I'm dealing with getting herxmas present, a firewire back up drive to be bootable for when the hard drive fails, and they all do. Apple has CHOSEN to make it a total pita.

Really? By making it so much easier? Just plug in the drive and turn on Time Machine. Time Machine now includes a bootable recovery partition.

But I guess the writing was on the wall when they came out with the syncing crap on their ipods.

When was that? Ten years ago now? How do you expect to get data onto the iPod? Are you also aware that you can use iCloud in Lion to do away with syncing on a modern device?

Dec 27, 2011 1:20 PM in response to etresoft

Tiger went to Leopard not lion I believe.

No third party software problems.

I finally got the info on how to do it, still couldn't partition the drive, they say one partition. So it now will have

two complete copies, cloned and time machine back up. And an update of lion included the time machine bootability. Not very

easy to find out about until you know it exists.

I expect to get data on a ipod the same as any other drive with Mac, drag and drop. Too Simple? Works on

sd cards. As far as I know icloud still syncs, just wireless?

Yep , just googled that one, another learning curve to get working for the users. I use my ipod for shooting apps, nothing

else because of the syncing. I let the wife and kids use them for their pictures and music, since they aren't double user

friendly, although I understand it can be done.

Is Apple going to fix OS X 10.7 Lion?