Does anyone like Natural Scrolling

I have been using a mac since 1986, I have no problem using the new scrolling. Now if I just could get the older platforms to switch to the new format.

Six of one half, a dozen of the other. Both work, just depends on understanding what you are trying to move when you scroll.

I still grumble my way through it to start then settle down. Trouble is, I have three other computers which act the opposite way. Now, if someone can tell me how to change them . . . 🙂

If you spend some time getting used to (marmite, herbal tea, classical music, overweight lovers) natural scrolling you will like it. If you don't, you won't.

Question is, what was wrong with the old way? I have no desire to waste time learning a new trick that has no advantage.

Use a little tool called ScrollReverser, and you can set all scroll directions as you want it.

My family and I are all using natural scrolling on three iMacs and two MacBook Pros. We're also iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad users so natural scrolling seemed, um, "natural" on the laptops and on my trackpad-equipped iMac. It took a few minutes to get used to on the other two iMacs with scroll ball mice, but it wasn't a traumatic adjustment. We all agree that pushing window content up and pulling it down is more intuitive than pulling the scrollbar thumb down to move window content up and vice versa.

For us, it just works.

Everyone is going on and on about liking or disliking the scroll direction, but I don't see anyone discussing the nuance of Apple's choices in this regard. A lot can be said for the philosophy of pushing the content up versus pushing a scroll-bar up when scrolling up, but it's a matter of taste, and can be changed.

However, the one beef I have with this implementation is that the mouse and trackpad are seen as one device. If you go into system preferences, click on “Mouse” and then make it scroll in the classic direction, the Trackpad automatically takes the same setting. Vice versa it’s the same. You go into “Trackpad”, change the setting to or from “Natural” scrolling, and the Mouse automatically adopts that setting.

Since the Mouse and Trackpad are listed as two devices, and are two physically different input devices, I see no reason why anyone would automatically link those configuration settings. It does make sense for me to scroll down when rolling down on the mouse while it also eminently makes sense to scroll down while swiping up on the Trackpad.

This is a major design flaw in MacOS/X Lion. If a device is both physically and logically different from the next device, the OS should treat these devices as separately configurable. A pen+pad isn't a trackpad isn't a trackball, isn't a mouse.

Anyone know of any way to get around that?

We all agree that pushing window content up and pulling it down is more intuitive

Really? Excuse me for being sceptical, but until Apple told everyone "it's more intuitive" I don't recall anyone EVER complaining that the way we've been doing it since the invention of mice and trackpads was 'unintuitive'. I don't EVER recall users on forums complaining that there's something unintuitive about the way we scroll...

Come on, admit it. You've just been suckered into the Apple spiel without even realising it... 😝

softwater wrote:

Really? Excuse me for being sceptical, but until Apple told everyone "it's more intuitive" I don't recall anyone EVER complaining that the way we've been doing it since the invention of mice and trackpads was 'unintuitive'. I don't EVER recall users on forums complaining that there's something unintuitive about the way we scroll...

Come on, admit it. You've just been suckered into the Apple spiel without even realising it... 😝

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone would claim it's all a conspiracy foisted upon the unsuspecting masses by the Evil Apple Empire. Good grief!

Softwater, just because you don't find it it intuitive doesn't mean it isn't intuitive for others. I've been scrolling the old way since my first Mac in 1986, and I had no trouble at all switching to Lion's natural scrolling. My wife, who normally hates it when something changes on her Macs, has no problem with natural scrolling. The Kid (12 years old) just shrugged and kept on going.

When I wrote "We all agree that pushing window content up and pulling it down is more intuitive", the "we" to which I referred was my family. YMMV, and that's fine, but don't try to superimpose your personal preferences (or your conspiracy theories) on the rest of us.

No, I'm not doing that. I accept that you might like to sit with your left leg crossed over your right while I sit with my right leg crossed over my left. My point is how is your way any better? You implicitly claim its better (even if only better for you) when you say it is 'more intuitive (for you).

Could you please explain what, exactly, you mean by 'more intuitive'? And I don't mean just repeat the description of what 'natural scrolling is', I know what it is:

What I genuinely want to know is what does this 'extra intuitiveness' actually boil down to?

What does it give you that you didn't have before?

Why is it worth learning to do it this way?

How, exactly, does it make scrolling any better (rather than just a reversal of what you did before)?

I'd accept an answer to anyone of these questions as justifying the claims 'its more intuitive for me/us' - but so far all I get when I ask people to tell me the benefit they gain from it all they do is repeat 'that its like you're pushing your finger on the page'. Like I said, that's a description by analogy of what natural scrolling is. It doesn't mean it has any advantages, even to you.

Softwater, everything is a matter of personal taste. The "Lion" method is very natural when you use touch-screens, and it just copies this to the trackpad, that's all. Please do not buy from the Dark Empire, because there are many more like Chip Old who don't like the way you participate in the discussion.

Please do not buy from the Dark Empire, because there are many more like Chip Old who don't like the way you participate in the discussion.

I have no idea what this means: 'buy from the dark empire' what are you talking about?

Moreover, I couldn't care less if you don't like my questions. It's you that's offering insults, not I.

My question is genuine: how is it "more intuitive"? I don't want to convince you not to use it, I want you to give me a good reason as to why I should use it by explaining what 'more intuitive' means. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

On the other hand, if you use it simply because its different, fine. But if so, don't pretend its better by saying its 'more intuitive' when its just different.

Check out Scroll Reverser:

http://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/

Thanks for that link. It looks like his scrollreverser can unhinge the mouse's behaviour from the trackpad's behaviour, so if that app works in Lion, I'll give it a go.

I can't believe the discussion thread though. People infuse their comments and replies with religion and conspiracy theories instead of just having a clean technical discussion.

Your post would have gotten my +1 Informative on Slashdot, my man. Cheers!

softwater wrote:

No, I'm not doing that. I accept that you might like to sit with your left leg crossed over your right while I sit with my right leg crossed over my left. My point is how is your way any better? You implicitly claim its better (even if only better for you) when you say it is 'more intuitive (for you).

Could you please explain what, exactly, you mean by 'more intuitive'? And I don't mean just repeat the description of what 'natural scrolling is', I know what it is:

I don't take the time to analyze everything I do. If I did I'd never manage to get out of bed in the morning. The best answer I can give you is "It just feels right", and that's a pretty good distillation of the dictionary definition of "intuitive".

What does it give you that you didn't have before?

A choice. But if you mean what functionality, none. Both ways work. I just happen to like the new way better.

Why is it worth learning to do it this way?

What's to learn? For my family and I there was nothing to learn. It just works. Every once in a while my wife (she who doesn't like change) grumbles at herself when she moves the scroll ball the wrong way, so I guess you could say she hasn't learned the new way completely. Even so, she says she doesn't want to go back to the old way.

How, exactly, does it make scrolling any better (rather than just a reversal of what you did before)?

As I said, it just feels right.