Why won't Apple bring back "Save As" since "Duplicate" clearly *****?

Kurt Lang wrote:

I never saw a vendor explaining :

CAUTION, my product doesn't do this or that.

The list of available features is finite but the list of unavailable ones will always be infinite.

Sorry, that doesn't even make sense. Nor does it have anything to do with the scenario. Any software product has a limited feature set (whatever the programmers have written into it), and features which haven't been included yet.

If someone at level 45 need to work upon a document created at level 69, he must ask the file to the "owner" which will not work upon his own copy as long as the other user has returned the file.

That doesn't make sense, either. I've read it four times now, and I can't really make out what your intent was.

When I buy an iApp, I know that I will not get every features delivered by PRO apps. But as long as it fit my needs, it's not a problem.

Many users consider Pages a pro app. Albeit, a much cheaper version of Quark or InDesign. They're wrong, but that doesn't change their viewpoint. You seem to be aware though that Pages is a prosumer app.

1. I believe Yvan means that Manufacturers do not advertise the things their products don't do.

2. I have no idea what level 45 & 69 have to do with anything.

3. Pages is consumer level software, not sure what that means but I agree, it's a toy.

3. Pages is consumer level software, not sure what that means but I agree, it's a toy.

Heheh! Yes, when people send those kinds of documents in, it makes prepress folks groan. Just like the users who insist on using Word as a page layout app and think you can work with their documents just the way they are.

I don't use Word for prepress, however I have a lot of clients (mainly law offices) who live & die by Words integration with software such as Amicus, Time Matters, PCLaw etc, in the business world Pages does not cut it (neither does Numbers) but that's fine, I use Pages to write letters that go in envelopes, and it is good at that. Keynote is the outstanding part of iWorks.

And just so it's clear, Word is a clunker, but it is a clunker without rival in the legal/medical/realestate markets.

Clients are usually a bit aghast when you inform them that you'll have to spend hours, maybe days rebuilding their Word document (which they used in layout mode) to duplicate its look as closely as possible in InDesign or Quark. After that kind of bill, they learn to use an actual page layout program for that work.

And just so it's clear, Word is a clunker, but it is a clunker without rival in the legal/medical/realestate markets.

No doubt it has greatly outgrown its purpose; a word processor. But in order to have a reason to add more "features", MS keeps trying to make it into much more than it needs to be. It is ingrained though throughout the country, so it won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

I agree totally, Pages is actualy all I need for Word Processing, but I always forget to change the format when I save as (or export) and have to do it again, make .doc a selectable 'default' format for saving and Word would go the way of Outlook and PowerPoint, but Excel is still Microsofts 'Killer App'

I also have first hand experience in learning about iWork's limitations. Previously, under 10.5 & 10.6, if 2 users opened the same document, the last to save is the version that is saved. Under 10.7, if 2 users open the same document, there is still no warning given until the program attempts to autosave, at which point the document becomes corrupted, and you have to copy all into a new document.

Point being, neither behavior was good, which is why we keep Office. But now with Lion, I'm going to also have to dump preview because the same behavior can happen with it. This will be sad because I used to like preview, and adobe reader has been a kludgy piece of garbage for years....

Yea for progress!

Try Skim - it's free, doesn't support autosave/versions but very much has the same look and feel as Preview. It also has some added annotation features that Preview doesn't.

I apologize :

level 45 was erroneously used for : floor 45.

I wanted to speak of users working at very different areas in a building, what was described in th Kurt's message to which I was responding.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 5 octobre 2011 16:23:11

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Csound1 wrote:

1. I believe Yvan means that Manufacturers do not advertise the things their products don't do.

2. I have no idea what level 45 & 69 have to do with anything.

3. Pages is consumer level software, not sure what that means but I agree, it's a toy.

(1) you understood well

(2) I already explained that I erroneously used "level" for "floor"

(3) Pages is in the same category than iLife, iPhoto, iDvd.

They fit the needs of more than 80% of the potential users and it is a huge target.

If you want more features, use pro apps. The choice is large but the prices are high.

Is it so difficult to understand that most users don't need to get a Ferrari?

For many of them, a Smart is sufficient.

I posted many times a script changing Pages behavior so that it no longer work as a .doc viewer but as a .doc editor.

As every doc issued from M…oSoft product is automatically moved to my trash, I have no need for it so I don't know the way it behave under Lion.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 5 octobre 2011 16:32:50

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

sgladfelter wrote:

I also have first hand experience in learning about iWork's limitations. Previously, under 10.5 & 10.6, if 2 users opened the same document, the last to save is the version that is saved. Under 10.7, if 2 users open the same document, there is still no warning given until the program attempts to autosave, at which point the document becomes corrupted, and you have to copy all into a new document.

Point being, neither behavior was good, which is why we keep Office. But now with Lion, I'm going to also have to dump preview because the same behavior can happen with it. This will be sad because I used to like preview, and adobe reader has been a kludgy piece of garbage for years....

Yea for progress!

You were lucky because what I was said was that if 2 users opened the same document, the document was killed.

As I already wrote, it's why I was asked for a script forbidding this kind of use.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 5 octobre 2011 16:37:05

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

Thanks for the tip. One of a very few pieces of useful advice I've read in this thread- but like a train wreck, its hard to look away.

BTW, I was perusing the MS Office website/forum for Office for Mac the other day looking to see if there was any news on 2008 Mac updates. To my surprise horror, almost everyone posting there was asking how soon and how fast could they get Versions/AutoSave support.

I went away feeling ever-so queasy. 😟

@softwater

probably the people asking for autosave/versions were Apple employees 😁

I'm not surprised.

These features were designed for the rest of us and this range of users is seriously larger than the range to which we belong.

Apple is no longer targetting geeks, it's working for the 'standard' customer.

They understood that working for us isn't the efficient way to make cash. And in a world where the only goal is cash, they made the good choice.

Yvan KOENIG (VALLAURIS, France) mercredi 5 octobre 2011 17:19:21

iMac 21”5, i7, 2.8 GHz, 4 Gbytes, 1 Tbytes, mac OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.0

My iDisk is : <http://public.me.com/koenigyvan>

Please : Search for questions similar to your own before submitting them to the community

So from your perspective, if they decided that they could make more money closing down the computer dept and going into fast food, that would be good? I guess so. I can imagine given that perspective that you find it hard to understand why users are annoyed.