How to type french accents?

Tom Gewecke wrote:

That would be a mistake, because many users have no key labeled Option, but they always have one labeled Alt.

Tough!

I think even some Apple keyboards no longer have Option printed on them.

Which ones? I have two purchased this year, and both have "Option", with "Alt" above and in smaller type.

I thought you refered to iOS, where the char picker is current, but as cumbersome as ever. Please try to write one page in French using this feature, tell me if you finish earlier than one day.

This works for isolated words or for short sentences inserted in a text, not for current work.

I think we have already discussed too much on this issue.

More on using diacritical marks with dialectal texts and complex linguistic transcription on my webpage at

http://www.unibuc.ro/e/prof/paliga_v_s/soft-reso/

P.S. No, am not going to activate picker in Mac OS X, suffice to have it on my iPhone, it is OK when adding new names with diacritical marks, there are soem 2-3 letters per name, which is bearable for such an action.

Let me enlighten my posts a bit.

1. We have four macs in the house, only 1 has "option" on the key, the others have "alt".

2. On all macs we have the Intl En keyboard (qwerty) to be compatible with may other countries.

3. I live in Switzerland : the German part, so I use a lot of German text writing; and I live in Holland: Dutch writing; and I live in Belgium: mostly Dutch and a bit of French; and I live in France, where I have a lot to do with finance and management, thus a lot of French typing; in iOS I use the "key holding" method. in OS I use the four key combinations I mentioned, and I assure you it is as fast as "normal" typing (Dutch for me).

Personally i think it is not clever to change the keyboard layout to another language when that means that the key typed is different from what is on the keys on the keyboard. But evrybody is free to use the method he believes in. I wish you all a happy new year and a lot of well-feeling with your macs.

Cattus Thraex wrote:

Please try to write one page in French using this feature, tell me if you finish earlier than one day.

I'm too old to switch to this method, but I think you vastly underestimate how easy it is for many. I suspect it will become ever more commonly used in the future.

fane_j wrote:

This is Mac, so let's talk Mac; and let's talk Windows when we discuss Windows.

This is technical assistance, so I think we owe it to readers to do our best to give advice which Switchers and Mac users who don't yet know that Option equals Alt or ⌥ will understand the first time. Personally I always try to use Option/Alt when providing instructions.

May be as you say, nevertheless there is a limit of speed to be achieved via this method, which will always below a lot below the speed when using a dedicated keylayout or even dead keys, if you are familiar with using them (my wife says dead keys are horrible, and could not convince her to switch to using them).

Picking chars, as in iOS, is indeed a simple way to write a very limited amount of data, as the example with names with diacriticals in Address Book. That is why iOS is totally inappropriate for writing longer texts if diacriticals are needed. To say nothing that the virtual keyboard on an iPad is something difficult to use for longer texts. Of course, I am subjective, but I think that using these alternative methods will always be below the required speed for normal writing.

Summing up: if someone is accustomed to the U.S. keyboard, and must write in French, then Canadian French is the best solution, and also the fastest, especially when long texts are in view.

For short texts, e.g. names or isolated words, any keylayout allowing dead keys is simple solution.

In iOS, the only current solution is either a dedicated keylayout (dunno whether French is there) or, using char picker, only for isolated words e.g. names in the AB.

Of course, experimented users may use UKELELE and create their custom keylayouts, this is simple enough when adding several chars only, any user may put them where she/he wishes.

Yes, indeed using option/alt is the best way for instructions. New comers may be confused if otherwise, but I forget this principle from time to time. Anyway, they should know that in Mac OS both left and right option/alt keys are usable for the purpose of achieving symbols or dead keys.

LexSchellings wrote:

1. We have four macs in the house, only 1 has "option" on the key, the others have "alt".

All Mac keyboards have an Option key. I think that what you're trying to say is that on your Macs, the Option key is identified by the symbol ⌥. The "Alt" is added (always in smaller type) to help you if you use, say, a terminal emulator or Windows. (If your Shift key is identified by a text label, compare it with the "Alt" -- you'll find that latter is in smaller size.)

in OS I use the four key combinations I mentioned, and I assure you it is as fast as "normal" typing (Dutch for me).

Presumably you mean Mac OS X. How much French text do you type? A few paragraphs? A few pages? Entire reports?

Personally i think it is not clever to change the keyboard layout to another language when that means that the key typed is different from what is on the keys on the keyboard.

I may very well be wrong, but it sounds to me like you're not a touch (or blind) typist. If you have to look at the keys on the keyboard when you type, then I understand why you may prefer this -- but it's an inefficient way of using the keyboard. That the character entered is different from the one printed on the key is irrelevant if you're touch-typing.

Tom Gewecke wrote:

This is technical assistance,

I thought it was a user-to-user forum. Technical assistance, you say? When do I get that Apple paycheck, it would come in very handy just about now.

I think we owe it to readers to do our best to give advice which Switchers and Mac users who don't yet know that Option equals Alt or ⌥ will understand the first time.

Sorry, Tom, but I entirely disagree. I don't think I owe anything to "readers" -- other than what I owe to any fellow human being. As to Switchers and the rest -- it's their job to learn Mac, not a Mac user's job to change his standards and habits to accommodate them. If I learn to drive in the UK and then I emigrate to the US, is it my job to accommodate to driving on the right -- or is it the job of all you American drivers to accommodate to my driving on the left?

Of course, one must use a keylayout as close as to the one he/she has become accustomed to. For a French living in France, it is obvious that a French AZERTY physical keyboard implies he/she feels better with a French keylayout, I would be totally disarmed, even if I generally write blind, sometimes I may need to see some chars.

If such people must write in another language, which requires diacriticals, then the problem may be serious as, say, Czech or Slovak keylayouts generally follow the QWERTZ-based physical keyboard, then to anyone accustomed to QWERTY or AZERTY keyboards this may be a problem.

All is relative in this world, so such details are important when asking for a solution. I started from the assumption that the person who initially triggered the discussion is accustomed to a U.S. keylayout, and I responed accordingly.

fane_j wrote:

That the character entered is different from the one printed on the key is irrelevant if you're touch-typing.

It's hardly irrelevant. You learn to touch type on the basis or a particular layout, like US qwerty. If you switch to French azerty touch typing is pretty much impossible without a lot of retraining.

fane_j wrote:

I don't think I owe anything to "readers" -- other than what I owe to any fellow human being. As to Switchers and the rest -- it's their job to learn Mac, not a Mac user's job to change his standards and habits to accommodate them.

You are certainly entitled to your views on that. But I think it is inappropriate to criticize others who may want to be more helpful to a broader range of users than you do by using terms like alt instead of option. As explained in the terms of use, Apple Support Communities is here to help people use Apple products and technologies more effectively.

‘Sorry, Tom, but I entirely disagree. I don't think I owe anything to "readers" -- other than what I owe to any fellow human being. As to Switchers and the rest -- it's their job to learn Mac, not a Mac user's job to change his standards and habits to accommodate them.’

I disagree. We are all here to help and express our ideas at our best. We may be wrong, which does not mean we are wrong in general. We may be helpless in some circumstances, but this is another story.

Tom Gewecke wrote:

It's hardly irrelevant. You learn to touch type on the basis or a particular layout, like US qwerty. If you switch to French azerty touch typing is pretty much impossible without a lot of retraining.

I disagree entirely. I learned to type on my first Mac, a Classic, when I was studying at ULG in Belgium. Naturally, it came with an AZERTY keyboard, which I used to type three different languages. (I wish I could remember the name of the programme I used, it was fairly small and simple, but quite effective.) About a year later I went to study in Canada, and I switched to the QWERTY keyboard. It took me less than a week to do so, using the same programme. When I say, "less than a week" I mean, in toto, about 8 hrs. That's hardly "a lot of retraining". Now, I'm not saying I'm as proficient as a professional typist, and -- given my age -- perhaps it would not be as easy now, but that's another matter.

LexSchellings wrote:

OMG, fane you do not read too well: I said on one I have "option" ON the key, and the others have "alt".

Thank you, LexSchellings, for your courtesy. May I make so bold as to offer a humble suggestion? I would not venture as far as to suggest that your reading could be anything short of perfection, but perhaps, given your busy schedule, you did not have the time to peruse my post quite in its entirety.