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Very Serious iCloud + Pages Questions

I have a lot of anxiety about the way iCloud stores documents. The information from Apple is unclear. All I know is that documents will be stored in the app itself. That's fine if you only have dozen or so documents, but I have about 2,500 Pages documents, arranged in a clear and easy-to-use hierarchy of folders. I used SugarSync to keep the files and folders identical on all devices. So I have these questions:

Will iCloud give me the alternative of storing files in the file system, where they are easy to find?

If I choose not to use iCloud, will Pages continue to save documents in the file system? If it won't, I have to abandon Pages.

Will iCloud automatically import all the Pages documents from the file system into Pages? If so, will it move the files or create duplicates?

If there are duplicates, how will I know which copy of a file I'm opening?

How will I be able to find and delete duplicates? With 2,500 files, it isn't going to be easy or obvious if it's a manual procedure.

Will iCloud recreate the way I have organized my 2,500 files in the file hierarchy?

Will iCloud put my 2,500 files in one place and force me to reorganize them through a grueling manual process dragging them on top of each other one by one?

Will iCloud allow me to have only one level of folders, as in the iPad version of Pages, LaunchPad, and the first Macintosh? There's a reason why Apple abandoned a flat filing system on the Macintosh in the 1980s; that reason is still valid today.

What does iCloud do if a Pages file requires files of a different type, such as JPEG files, or needs to be stored in the same place as files of a different type, such as the Word, Pages, and plain text version of a resume?

If iCloud destroys the way I've organized my files, what happens if two files with different content in different parts of the file hierarchy have the same name?

Obviously I can't use iCloud for documents until I know the answers to these questions, or I risk a huge mess.

iMac 24-OTHER, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Oct 5, 2011 1:38 PM

86 replies

Nov 10, 2011 2:46 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

I've turned on iCloud for pages on my iPad. Not one file has synced in iCloud.

There is no iCloud option under Share and Print. I do have an option to Share via iWork.com. However, when I go to iCloud.com/iwork/pages there are no documents.

I can easily share to iDisk.

iCloud is turned on in my settings on my iPad.

Use iCloud is turned on in my Pages settings on my iPad.

Nothing shows up.

Is there some other secret to getting my Pages documents to sync on iCloud?

Nov 10, 2011 3:24 AM in response to yvettegri

When you turn on iCloud, documents in Pages and Numbers on the iPad should be synced automatically to iCloud. There is no share option or the like, the only thing you see should be a small "up" arrow on your document icons in the "Documents" view of the app when the document is about to be synced.

Nov 11, 2011 10:00 AM in response to Daniel Tully

This is my problem, too. I don't understand why I have to first open a document on my iOS device first, before I can use it, on my Mac. iDisk doesn't require this middlman step. It's frustrating. Maybe it will resolved before iDisk is gone . . . . .

Nov 12, 2011 10:04 AM in response to jonfromcorpus christi

I agree! Lets all write Tim Cook and ask for iDisk & Galleries to stay!

I read that he is on the fence about it.

Nov 13, 2011 6:28 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

Knowing that certain features on the Mac version are incompatible with the iOS version, auto syncing all documents would be impossible without ruining some formating, etc. However, I would like to see a sub-folder in documents or a selection in the iWork apps on the Mac similar to PhotoStream for iPhoto: call it iCloud documents, perhaps. If the added features were not particularly necessary on a set of documents that you want readily on your Mac that you are sharing with your iOS devices, they could be saved there, and they would automatically appear on your iPad. Likewise, documents created on iOS iWork apps would be in this selection without the added step of pulling them from iCloud.com and then re-saved to iCloud.com. This would be a sub-set of files that iCloud users are intending to use across the two platforms.

Nov 19, 2011 9:54 PM in response to yvettegri

I'm quite new to Apple.

I've set up iOS on my iPhone and turned on iCloud.

I uploaded a document -- just one -- to Pages on iCloud.

I can't even open the document in iCloud. I click, and click, and click. Nothing. Right-click on it? I'm given the option to duplicate, download or delete. But the cloud won't let me launch the document on my PC laptop at all.

I can only open it on my iPhone.

As a poster stated before, this is madness. I'd like to enter quite a bit of data to this 17,000-plus page doc.

A waste of $10 if the only real access I have is on my iPhone.

Nov 20, 2011 7:15 AM in response to lucindafromdenton

As it stands now that is how it supposed to work. That's what this entire thread has been about. Hopefully Apple releases an update to the Mac versions of the iWork applications to address this soon. If you want to open the document you uploaded to iCloud on your laptop you have to download it first. The iCloud.com web portal only serves as a means for uploading and downloading your documents, so they can be accessed from yorniOS devices. Apple has not given any indication that iCloud.com can be used for document editing. It's not Google docs. The thing that has been most disappointing is that the only way to access or save a document in iCloud from the Mac is by uploading/downloading a copy. There is no real syncing between the desktop and iOS versions of iWork.

Nov 20, 2011 9:58 AM in response to dignanmorse

Well, color me stupid. I thought storing in iCloud meant I'd at least be able to open the document in iCloud. Clearly iWork as it stands is for abbreviated presentations. Perhaps I'm a techno peasant.

karenjk

Level 1

5 points

Dec 5, 2011 12:27 PM in response to joséfromaveiro

The only consolation, after reading all of these comments, is that I'm not alone!

karenjk

Level 1

5 points

Dec 5, 2011 12:28 PM in response to lucindafromdenton

Made me laugh..."techno peasant" I'm sure you're not! Great expression though. Karen

Jan 5, 2012 9:22 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

Follow Apple's instructions here for setting up iCloud

http://www.apple.com/icloud/setup/

THEN

Restart your iOS devices

yammyong

Level 1

0 points

Mar 1, 2012 7:50 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

i've only recently switched to Mac so pardon me when i share my two cents worth.

i think you're asking questions way ahead of the development curve. Apple redefined smartphones, revolutionised apps with their App store, invented the iPad, pushed development for iPhone and iPad friendly apps, and then brought the App store to Mac platform, launched iCloud almost year after year,back to back.

If you haven't already noticed, this is Apple's ambitious direction. to create a family of gadgets with no boundaries nor limits in bewteen. What you're looking at is iCloud Ver. 1.0, and i daresay they've done a darn good job with it. Even though it no longer "just works", this rate of development can only be fairly matched by Google.

Recent development of Mountain Lion hints at bring Mac and iOS devices closer together, with features such as iMessages etc. Have some patience, i firmly believe in the next few years you will see productivity software on Macs becoming apps, and by then, full syncing will be in place.

P.S, i've also noticed Apple likes to include hidden features in existing products, but not announce it until a hacker flips the "on" switch. Things like hidden panaroma mode in iPhone, and Atlay has shown that the folder is there. You sir certainly have experience with Macs, but lack the patience to sit through the progression of a new era.

Mar 1, 2012 8:53 AM in response to yammyong

Most of my original concerns were overcome by events, but I'm still apprehensive about one thing, and that is abolishing the hierarchical file system for a flat file system in which documents can only be put into top-level folders, and then by a mechanism that resembles a video game with things zipping and flying all over the place, as in LaunchPad.

It turned out that the only files that iCloud syncs at present are the ones produced by the mobile versions of iWork. That means the iPad's flat file system works okay. It has to work with dozens of files at the most.

The problem is moving this to the Mac. All OSs got a hierarchical filing system with version 2 to meet a need that is still present. All the OSs that did not gain a hierrachical file system are now extinct. I'll give you an example. I make church bulletins. Because so many software vendors put junk in the Documents folder, I have a Files folder in it that contains only my files. In that, I have a Church folder. In that, I have a folder for each church. In the folder for a church, I have various subfolders, including Bulletins. In the Bulletins folder, I have a folder for each year. In each of those folders, I have the bulletins for the corresponding year. Since most of the bulletin is boilerplate, it is impossible to use Spotlight to find a specific one, but going through the folders finds it instantly. I cannot take 3,800 folders and drag and drop them on each other to organize them. I'd end up with too many top-level folders and no subfolders.

In addition, iOS stores documents in each application's bundle. That is great on a mobile device, but on a Mac it is a disaster. Suppose I'm doing my income taxes. I make a Pages file with supporting text information. I make a Numbers file where I put my income and deductions as I collect the information. I create a Turbo Tax file that contains the actual return. At present, I can put all these in one folder, but if the iOS method is transferred to the Mac, it's scattered everywhere. I'd have to reproduce the hierarchical structure in the naming scheme. It would be far simpler not to fix what is not broken.

I only have 30 years to live and I want to do things other than arrange 3,800 files (and counting) with a video game interface that tests my hand to eye coordination. The hierarchical folder structure is not broken, does not need to be fixed, it still serves a vital need, and I don't want Apple to go off on a tangent because of iOS and screw up the Mac. No one has invented a search engine that does not turn up irrelevant results. Sometimes search engines only turn up irrelevant results.

The Mac is not a phone, and it is not a tablet. There are features that we need on Macs that won't work on iPads, and the other way around. iOS and OS X need to have a family resemblance, and their UIs cannot be inconsistent or contradictory, but they cannot be identical. A hierarchical file system on the iPad isn't going to work, but it is necessary on the Mac.

Now some people might say that some feature or the other has been around for a long time and it needs to be replaced. Age is not the criterion for obsolence. Obsolence is not when a solution is old, but when it no longer solves the problem it was designed to solve. Wheels have been round for a long, long time, but roundness is not obsolete. The hierarchical structure of the filing system is increasingly necessary as the number of files increases, and I'm terrified that Apple will leave me in chaos by abandoning it. I hope my fears are unfounded, but I have seen and heard nothing to the contrary.

iCloud cannot sync all my files without destroying their organization, emulating SugarSync, or syncing only the subset that I want to edit on my mobile device.

Mar 1, 2012 9:31 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

Took a look at Mountain Lion and heard rumors that they might keep the iDisk. Hopefully this is true. I just hope they update iWork for the mac so it will be a true cloud.

Mar 1, 2012 10:11 AM in response to Kenneth Collins1

Well, so far it seems like they are going in the right direction with Mountain Lion, as far as I can understand. Obviously you will have the choice how to store your files. If you choose to store them in iCloud, you get this simplified and new filing system, but if you choose to store them on your harddrive, you can continue work as before with your own file structure as you describe it.

Let us hope that they will follow that road, not to merge OS X with iOS but converging them where it makes sense, without removing the advanced options OS X gives the user.

Very Serious iCloud + Pages Questions