Quicktime 7 pro export h.264 better than iMovie quicktime setting?

1) 640x480

2) MP4

3) 80MB/Hour

4) 1 to 10 minutes each

5) H.264/AAC

Finally, something concrete to work with.

Sorry, thought you wanted to create movie clips—not 3G files. Unfortunately, as Brad stated earlier, your expectations are neither reasonable nor realistic. A target data rate of 80 MB/hour is the equivalent of approximately 178 Kbps for audio + video. This is unrealistic for a VGA (640x480) encoded file. I would normally allocate 160 Kbps for 48.0 KHz sampled stero for the audio alone and would rarely drop below 64 Kbps @ 44.1 KHz for what I consider "Good" quality mono AAC audio. Apple presets target "Good" quality conversions. For comparison purposes a 640x480 iPod file would normally have an audio + video data rate in the 1600-1700 Kbps range, a 474x360 iPhone version in the 1000-1100 Kbps range, and a 320x240 iPod targeted file in the 700-800 range. These data rates and encode dimensions tend to preserve the original video quality of the source DVD content. Only "3G" level files target the data rates you require and would further reduce the display dimensions to something on the order of 176x133 or 176x132 depending on your specific work flow. To give you a better idea as to what I am saying, here are a couple of sample files for you to test:

SAMPLE FILE 1

This file was created in MPEG Streamclip directly from the DVD content and targets the 3G preset located in the "MPEG-4 > iTunes" window but modified for your specific target data rate range (roughly 178 Kbps) rather than the recommended 300 Kbps with mono audio customized to 32 Kbps @ 32.0 KHz (which is my personal minimum setting for audio). You can check to see if this custom export is compatible with both your Android and IOS devices.

SAMPLE FILE 2

This file conforms to the older 3G "Cellular" standard which has roughly half the video data rate used in the first sample. In addition, the frame rate is fixed at 15 fps and the audio settings are further reduced to 24 Kbps @ 16.0 KHz sampling rate and is stored in the 3GP file container. As a result, the mono audio is beginning to sound a bit "hallow" ald the video is having problems with the reproduction of transitions and motion vectors which sometime produce pixellation issues. This file had to be created from DVD content demuxed to M2V/AIFF elementary streams for conversion by the QT 7 Pro iPhone (Cellular) preset to ensure the data is stored in a "real" 3GP file container. Once again, you can test these files with both your Android and IOS device to see if/how well they play.

RECOMMENDATION: My personal recommendation would be to either target a higher data rate for your full motion video files or consider the use of audio Podcast level files using periodic still graphics rather than a full motion video track or no graphics at all.

With regard to recompression of HandBrake conversions, if your DVD content is in the normal 4-6 Mbps range and you are targeting an 80 Mbph data rate, then your files are being compressed to to 3-5% of their original size. This means that significant amounts of data is being discarded by your work flow and cannot be recovered in any future recompression work flows and is why I referred to a deminishing of returns on quality with each successive compression cycle. E.g., think of your source files as having 100% quality. If you then use a work flow that only retains 10% of the original quality and then recompress the second generation file using the same work flow, you only retain about 1% of the original quality. While this is not an accurate picture of the repeated compression process, it does give an idea of what is going on with each new file generation..

here is a ink to my file, it's a clip taken from the 83mb mp4 (total bit rate 189kbps) file converted in Hanbrake from 1 hour DVD. Editing the 83mb mp4 into small segments still adds back up to the original 83mb, which i am happy with (each segment ends up having different data rates).

Correct. The total "average" data rate is the total amount of data in the file divided by the total duration of the file. However, instaneous data rates vary throughout the file dependent of the content being encoded at any given time. That is why the segmented file sizes vary.

I downloaded the x264Encoder wich allows me to export decent files from iMovie but they are in .mov format...but if i use passthrough in quicktime pro then i can change them to .mp4.

Have you considered using MPEG Streamclip to trim and export your DVD content directly using the x264 codec? HandBrake includes the FFmpeg package which itself includes the x264 version of the MPEG-4/AVC (H.264) video codec. However, if you have added the x264 codec to your QT component configuration, it is now vailable to all apps that access your system's installed components—to include applications like QT 7 Pro, GarageBand, and MPEG Streamclip. You can access the x264 codec via MEPG Streamclip's "Export to MPEG-4" window which means it will export directly to an MP4 file container. Here is a sample file I exported at my cutoff for minimum VGA quality:

SAMPLE FILE 3

Planning on users being able to use wifi and slower 3g network when not near wifi, and look good on phones and decent on tablets

I use a different strategy. I allow the server to handle the various aspects of streaming. Basically I PAR encode a file as 720p for all current mobile devices. If they are on a WiFi network, the server streams the original file. If the WiFi connection is weak or I am using a 3G connection, then I switch the device to the "Play with Live Conversion" mode which takes advantage of Apple's HTTP streaming capabilities and varies the streaming according to the bandwidth of the target device connection. Too bad I cannot demonstrate this here.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39276137/Mp4.mp4

With regard to your sample file, its total average data rate as played back in QT 7 on my computer was actually 324.66 Kbps as seen here:

I therefore created two additional sample files at VGA dimensions trying to target the same data rate. Overshoot a little but will post them anyway for comparison with my minimum acceptable quality file above. (I.e., you should be able to see a definite loss in detail in both skin and clothing texture, as well as, color tone.) Of course, this is mostly a matter of personal preference. Until now, most of the users I've spoken to have set higher limits than I. It actually seems strange to find someone having even lower acceptable standards than myself. Also had another question crop up regarding the use of B-frames. Know the IOS devices handle them but but as a non-Android user, was not sure if this was acceptable. Please let me known which, if any of the test sample files are Android compatible.

SAMPLE FILE 4

SAMPLE FILE 5

Hi, wondering if you could tell me why one of these videos plays fine on Android and the other the audio is out of sync?

Sorry! As previously stated, have no way to test Android results for a given combination of settings that may or may not be completely reflected in the examination software. For instance, I can say that 2.mp4 file audio has a sample count of 1860 for 200 sample to chunk entries as opposed to 1858 for 206 sample to chunk entries for the 3.mp4 file audio but have no idea as to what work flow you used caused this difference or what affect it has on your Android device. Both files seem to play the same/in sync in QT on my machine.

any idea why 3 pass encoding reacts this way compared to 2 pass encoding?

No. Multiple passes normally helps to redistribute the allocation of data for best use where needed within the file.

I think i am good to go with editing my mp4 that will play on both ios and android...Wondering if you can tell by the screen shots of my settings in x264encoder if there is anything i should change (this is basically a preset)...my edited files will be streaming to devices so just want to make sure i have parameters set ok...

As peviously stated, I cannot help you concerning settings for Android devices. As far as IOS devices are concerned, the settings are much lower than I use for streaming so they should work with all of the devices I normally target but may display with obviously lower quality on some (e.g., oPad/iPad2).

Ps. these settings give me Baselinf Profile @ Level 2.1 which i believe should cover most devices, unless you think it's safe to go up to level 3?

Baseline profile@ Level 2.1 certainly allows compatibility with more older devices. For IOS devices, it should be safe to go as high as Main Profile @ Level 3.1, but once again I have no idea what limitations Android devices, especially older ones, might have. Basically the Baseline Profile @ Level 2.1 limits you to a maximum of 19,800 macroblocks per second (792 per frame), a maximum video data rate of 4,000 Kbps, and a maximum encode matrix of 352x480 @ 30 fps which your sample files appear to meet. In fact, you are substantially below the maximum video data rate limit. My advice is, "If you have found something that works, don't fixt it."