Previous 1 2 3 4 Next 54 Replies Latest reply: Oct 23, 2011 11:08 AM by goegele Go to original post
  • arrrrrrgh Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Hi Cal,


    Here is a readout from the Kernel Log of Console when the disconnect happens - its greek to me but may be of help to you:


    11-10-20 7:27:38.000 AM kernel: [ffffff8014795c00][AppleMultitouchDevice::willTerminate] entered

    11-10-20 7:27:38.000 AM kernel: [ffffff8014795c00][AppleMultitouchDevice::stop] entered

    11-10-20 7:27:53.000 AM kernel: [ffffff8016ba0000][BNBMouseDevice::init][66] init is complete

    11-10-20 7:27:53.000 AM kernel: [ffffff8016ba0000][BNBMouseDevice::handleStart][66] Done

    11-10-20 7:27:53.000 AM kernel: [ffffff8016c93a00][AppleMultitouchHIDEventDriver::start] entered

    11-10-20 7:27:54.000 AM kernel: [ffffff801289a200][AppleMultitouchDevice::start] entered

    11-10-20 7:27:59.421 AM _SendAttachNotification (thread 0x7fff7199a960): sending attach for device 58:55:ca:79:88:1f@fe80::5a55:caff:fe79:881f._apple-mobdev._tcp.local.: _GetAddrInfoReplyReceivedCallback matched.

    11-10-20 7:27:59.675 AM usbmuxd: _AMDeviceConnectByAddressAndPort (thread 0x100781000): IPv4

    11-10-20 7:28:10.350 AM _SendDetachNotification (thread 0x7fff7199a960): sending detach for device 58:55:ca:79:88:1f@fe80::5a55:caff:fe79:881f._apple-mobdev._tcp.local.: _BrowseReplyReceivedCallback got bonjour removal.


    Interestingly the dissconect does not happen unless the mouse is being moved - I looked at the log from overnight (no sleep for the system only screen dimming) when the computer was not in use and there were no disconnects until this morning when I began using the mouse.  The phones, router, ATV's and microwaves all were used while the computer was idle.


    To answer your question, my location of the components has not changed nor has my WiFi setup for a couple of years (honest )- Time Capsule router running dual band and both an Apple TV and ATV2 10 ft away both wired into the router not wireless.  I also have a couple of expresses extending the network but all are operating in the same place (50ft and 70ft away respectively) and same config. as before.  No new phones microwaves etc.  I do have a couple of Insteon RF light switches and a Insteon Smartlinc plugged into the router nearby but they have been for well over a year.  I also have two DECT 6.0 cordless phone satellite handsets nearby operating at 1.92-1.93 GHz - thay also have been there for a couple of years.  Sounds like a lot of stuff I know as I look at the list, but its been that way for quite some time.  The last hardware change was the addition of the ATV2 last fall.  Software wise, Lion this summer and lately 10.7.2 last week.  No issues with the BT under Lion until after 10.7.2 - everything else is consistent.


    The disconnect is not triggered by any action other then the mouse that I can tell such as the phone ringing, light being operated or microwave turning on - I am the only one around at the time it happens so I'm sure of this.  The only difference I can think of WiFi wise is that I did rearrange the order of the 2.4 and 5.0 GHz in the Network control panel (advanced pane) so that the 5.0 was above the 2.4 (making it the default network as I understand it).  Both bands have been running for a long time though.


    I'll try disablling the WiFi on the iMac and report back.  Thanks for the help Cal.

  • arrrrrrgh Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    HI Cal,  by way of update, turning WiFi off (ethernet to router) worked for 45 minutes but alas the mouse just cut out.  No other devices were operating.  Same as before.  Len

  • Caltain Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)



    Wow!  I can't tell you how refreshing it is to get something more than “it doesn't work” without having to ask “tell me more!”  Yeah, it does seem like a lot, but then I can't exactly throw stones.  I live in a glass house, too!


    Okay, it does seem that there was some benefit from turning off the Wi-Fi.  I do feel like I need to make sure of our terminology, though.  To turn off Wi-Fi, we are using either the Wi-Fi icon in the menu bar, or the appropriate entry in Network Settings.  The reason I make the distinction is that you mention ethernet, which is actually 10BaseT, 100BaseT, or gigabit wired connection, with ethernet referring to the communication protocol.


    Back to the grind!  Everything looked fine with your report, however I did find that I need some clarification about why you're running both the 2.4 and 5.0 GHz connections from your Mac?  From the rest of your description, I gather that there is only the one Time Machine router on your home network.  I understand why it would be running dual band.  What I don't understand is why your Mac is connected to both bands.


    Again, I'm not throwing stones.  I run both bands on my network, as well.  Mostly because, due to some bit of unknowable “Cupertino Logic” the iPhone will connect to 802.11n, but only on the 2.4 GHz band.  My Mac is connected via dual-band to the 5.0 GHz access point. I do run a backup ethernet connection to the router, since there are times in my work when a slow connection *****, but no connection is very, very, very bad.  This is called “redundant networking” and is really the only effective way to plan for a failed Wi-Fi connection. Once again, we delve into the mystical arcana which is Wireless Networking!


    You will get the maximum speed from your dual-band connection by setting the bandwidth at your router to either “auto” or “40 MHz,” and connecting your Mac to the 5 GHz access point.  Concurrently connecting to the same router, either by Wi-Fi or ethernet, will not improve throughput (network speed).  Why not, I have no idea.  It has long seemed to me that the bottleneck was the wireless transmission, and that “doubling up” the connection to the router should allow double the connection speed.  Unfortunately, it just ain't so.  So, unless there is some other compelling reason that you're running a Wi-Fi connection from your Mac to the 2.4 GHz access point of your router, I suggest you remove that connection from Network Preferences and see if it doesn't improve the situation with your mouse.



  • arrrrrrgh Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Hi Cal,  yes turning off WiFi via the menubar.  I only mentioned the ethernet as this was used after I turned WiFi off for testing.  Both bands are listed by my Mac's airport as the default.  I am connecting only to the 5 GHz as you note but the mac helpfully (:)) auto dicovers and lists the 2.4 in the pop up menu (I'm unable to get rid of the 2.4 as it auto reads it as there).  So the iMac is only connected to the 5 however both are listed.  Yes only one router/TM.  I also have a iPhone 4 using the 2.4 and one express as well.  Its not practical for me to always have the backup ethernet plugged in - the internet connection has always proved stable.  The TM radio band is set to auto.  I don't know how to remove the 2.4 band from my iMac as when I do it automatically reads and and lists it again.

  • Caltain Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)



    I'm pretty sure that the others don't have the same problem as you do anymore.  The fact that the disconnect happens only when the mouse is in use points to either an issue in the radio comms, ie. interference, or the mouse activity is now somehow tripping the bluetooth disconnect command at one end or the other.


    Hang in there.  I'm still working on it...



  • arrrrrrgh Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    thanks Cal.  As another likely unrelated piece I've had the ATV2 (hardwired into router) give some trouble twice (only twice though - once last night) in connecting with the iPod remote app since the various updates last week - just a nuisance but new behavior nontheless.  Likely unrelated but it seems also like its something in the frequency universe (as you suggest) which changed in the area after the software/firmware updates - sometime seemingly unrelated clues give insight.  The ATV loses the remote app connection but continues to operate normally other then that.  A simple ATV reboot fixes it.  Thanks for your continued help.  Good to hear the other's issues have been sorted out.

  • Caltain Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)

    Actually, that seems like it might be part of what's going on.  Any chance your neighbors are close enough to cause issues?  If you get some time, try changing the channels for wide and narrow band 5.0 and 2.4 Ghz on your router.  Generally you can pick the narrow channel and the wide channel is selected for you.  I'm wondering if it might be crosstalk between two routers on the same channel...


    I'm not actually sure that everyone elses issues are resolved, but if they don't tell me otherwise, I figure that they are happy enough to get on with their lives...;-)

  • hornshwangler Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)



    "I'm not actually sure that everyone elses issues are resolved, but if they don't tell me otherwise, I figure that they are happy enough to get on with their lives...;-)"


    You can be sure the issues with bluetooth devices being dropped intermittently has not been resolved. Any of these solutions developed by end users may only provide a temporary work around for the very real software bugs intrduced in 10.7.2. Your postings and diligence are appreciated by many but there's no expectation of a "fix" coming as we can only expect this of our vendor, Apple, hopefully sooner rather than later.




  • Caltain Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)



    Thanks for checking in.  Actually, besides my own issue having been corrected, there are 1 1/2 other's that have indicated that their issues are now corrected. I only count 1/2 for the guy with the wireless headphones.  I don't claim to be all powerful, and I'm certainly not omniscient, but I seem to be doing okay, so far.


    What you might to be overlooking is the fact that there are a number of issues that happen to have cropped up with the 10.7.2 update.  My solution, marked "SOLUTION:" is nothing like a panacea.  It won't cure the masses, but it clearly has resolved the issue for some.  Actually, so far, I haven't found any conclusive evidence that OS X is to blame for any issue besides the one that goes away when my solution happens to work. Just because something doesn't work after the OS gets updated does not necessarily mean that the OS is to blame.  It just means that the OS update EXPOSED the issue. 


    At this point, I'm sure that there are some issues with Microsoft mice and possibly the Intellipoint software for Mac.  I am also sure that there is/are a cached configuration file(s) that changed with the update.  Neither version is necessarily bad, but the less-than-smooth update to the file(s) is clearly on Apple.  Also, there are probably others that I haven't managed to sort out yet.


    One thing I've learned in 35+ years in the industry is that nobody can be blamed until someone figures out how to fix all of the problems.  I've managed to help some with one of the issues. That's it.  If you'll tell the doctor where it hurts, you might get some satisfaction.  If you want to wait for Apple to create or adopt a solution, that's fine, too.


    In the mean time, everyone is responsible for his/her own expectations and beliefs.  As for me, I expect that my belief in having another beer will soon come true.




  • goegele Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Maybe Apple wants us to buy a new Magic Mouse instead of using an old one from Microsoft...

    My little portable BT mouse from Logitech works fine by the way, so your plan doesn't work!


    P.S.: After 3G and 3GS, I'm going to buy the new Nexus Prime instead of the iPhone 4S



    @Caltain: Thanks for your support - but switching off WiFi didn't work

  • hornshwangler Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)



    Yes, you've applied your temporary circumvention and have declared victory! And, 1.5 others you claim to have saved! Great work on the SOLUTION that has had a TEMPORARY impact for 2.5 people when there are literally thousands suffering through this latest update. Keep drinkin' that beer koolaide Cal!


    "One thing I've learned in 35+ years in the industry is that nobody can be blamed until someone figures out how to fix all of the problems."


    Me thinks that before you can "fix" any problem, you first have to be able to frame the problem. I'll make it simple for ya, if Apple introduces an update to their OS and no other environment variables have changed, Apple has introduced a new bug. Agree? It really doesn't make any difference if you do or not. The good news is that Apple will / has accepted this as a problem and there will be hopefully a fix forthcoming.


    "It just means that the OS update EXPOSED the issue."


    What issue? You haven't identified any issue outside the original OP to this thread. Any OS has error recovery and timing responsibilities when communicating with devices, whether BT or WiFi. My external apple trackpad and keyboard didn't change. My new mini server that came with 10.7.2 didn't change. My uMBP with 10.7.1 worked just fine with the apple keyboard & trackpad until it was updated with 10.7.2. Are you suggesting that one should just periodically delete their BT devices, reload the OS, and accept this process as a real "fix". Come on, with over 35 years experience, you can honestly suggest this is a "SOLUTION" (your word). Unbelieveable.


    goegele writes:


    "@Caltain: Thanks for your support - but switching off WiFi didn't work "


    The key phrase there is "didn't work". And, if it does work, it will only be temporary. This is just too much.

  • hornshwangler Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)



    Trying to make some sense out of your post, please help with:


    "My little portable BT mouse from Logitech works fine by the way, so your plan doesn't work! "


    First Congratulations! on your logitech BT mouse working but please explain what my plan is and then why you perceive that it isn't working.




    "P.S.: After 3G and 3GS, I'm going to buy the new Nexus Prime instead of the iPhone 4S "


    Good for you! I've been using an android phone for several years. Welcome! Don't worry though, they're only slightly more complicated than your logitech mouse so you shouldn't have any problems.

  • Caltain Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)

    H- When you have mastered grammar and punctuation, feel free to write more of this entertaining drivel. Once you have coded device drivers, I/O protocols, and useful executables that employ them, I'll hear what you have to say. After you have tested your own code, and that of others, in structured alphas and betas, some of which you designed yourself, I might even pay attention.


    Have fun blamestorming while you wait for others to solve your problems.




  • goegele Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    with "your" plan, I meant Apple's plan to make us buy a Magic Mouse

    I just hit reply to your post because I liked it, so sorry for the confusion


    I think there is no "solution" untill Apple releases "hopefully sooner rather than later"

  • arrrrrrgh Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Hi Cal, thanks for the thought.  No neighbours for over 500 feet so its not a router conflict.   I turned off "Use Wide Channels" in the TM wireless network options but the disconnect happened again.  I changed the Multicast rate from Medium to Low - still get disconnects.


    Channel settings are on automatic.  Transmit Power is 100%  I changed the Multicast rate from Medium to High - bingo it appears so far (overnight).  It may be that by setting the connection requirements higher at the router it tends to dismiss the lower signals from BT - just a guess. Also would explain the ATV hiccup.


    I also remembered that the TM's software was updated last week to 7.5.2 from 7.5.1 so it actually is likely the basis of the change I've experienced.  Funny because I had delayed updating it because everything was working fine and I didn't want to fix something that wasn't broke.  In the rash of updates last week I thought I'd better bring it too up to date - famous last words....  


    So in this case it appears it was not 10.7.2 that was a problem, but me forgetting the 7.5.2 update and the plausible changes to the router. Thanks for the help in getting me to focus on the wifi setup and not problems with  bluetooth.  The others taking issue with your assistance are off base - obviously frustrated but off base nonetheless.  Len