Iphone 4s Takes Pictures Upside-Down???

shaenn wrote:

Oh, sorry. I'm getting a bit frustrated with everyone saying “try this program” or “try that viewer”. This seems like a no brainer for Apple to fix. I don't know what their problem is with admitting that there is a BUG and getting a patch out with a fix.

Perhaps because it is not a bug. I've owned a dozen high level cameras costing from a few hundred dollars to a couple of thousand. NONE of them rotated the image ALL of them set the EXIF flag. Are you saying that Apple, Nikon, Canon, etc. have all done it wrong and should modify their software to fit comfortably in the 1990s?

Clammoring for Apple to fix a bug that doesn't exist isn't likely to generate any sympathy within Apple. Asking for an enhancement so that images uploaded from your iOS device to third party platforms--especially those that are brain dead--will show correctly might gain some traction. As I said, this issue has been around in iOS devices since about version 3.13 and nothing has changed since then even though long and very vocal threads have appeared in these forums lamenting Apple camera software joining the 21st century.

Is it confusing to some maybe a high number of iOS camera users? Yes. Should Apple provide an option to rotate the images and zero the rotation flag before offloading images? Perhaps if the level of consumer dissatisfaction is high enough. Could they easily do so? Yes. Will they--I'm sure it isn't high on their priority list if it is there at all.

Voicing your displeasure with the current status on these forums isn't likely to bring any worthwhile results--after all this is a user to user forum and any participation by Apple is extremely limited. Letting Apple know of your displeasure through their official feedback path http://www.apple.com/feedback/iPhone.html might bring about the result you desire if they receive enough complaints to reach a trigger point.

dbyone wrote:

The basic windows photo viewing software I'm using on Vista 64 bit is apparantly not smart enough to

To use the exif data. Can you recommend a workaround or patch or new freeware I can use instead?

I haven't used Windows as a serious platform for several years. When I retired from my job as a software engineer writing software for Windows platforms I left Windows for the Mac and have never really looked back.

I do remember that virtually all serious image editing software handles the Orientation flag correctly. Even an early version of Paint Shop Pro would losslessly rotate images in place. Of course, the early versions of PSP all failed to conserve the EXIF data so all camera/lens/manipulation data was lost when the image was rotated in place. When PSP was bought out by Corel and became to me an inferior product I moved on to Photoshop starting with CS2. Photoshop has always handled the Orientation flag correctly and though I don't use it I expect Photoshop Elements will handle it correctly too. It is relatively easy to write a Photoshop action that loaded and then saved all the files in a folder. Photoshop rotates the image and sets the Orientation flag to 0 before saving the image.

Most of the image editing software for iOS devices also handles the flag correctly. Some emulate the Photoshop action and rotate the image before saving. These apps aren't free but are very inexpensive. I know that PhotoForge2, PhotoGene and PerfectPhoto all rotate the image and zero out the Orientation flag before saving to the Camera Roll. If I need to offload a photo from my iPhone to Facebook for example I run it through one of those programs. I don't believe it is necessary with Facebook--I think they have come out of the stone age--but have not verified that.

On the Mac the only Apple program I use that fails to rotate the images correctly is Safari. At one time Apple Mail failed to handle the Orientation flag correctly, but later versions do handle the flag correctly.

Someone else recommended Ifranview and I believe Gimp also handles the flag correctly (I may be wrong here as it has been several years since I looked at Gimp).

My iPhone 4S keeps getting photos upside down... also it takes videos upside down which is extremely annoying!!! I take all my pictures while holding the device with the volume buttons up and they appear upside down - this is a bug and should be fixed ASAP.

FYI I'm an experienced computer engineer and i know about EXIF and how to rotate photos - I just don't want to do that. I expect my device to be clever enough to save my photos and videos the way they appear on screen (like my old 3GS did btw).

the thing with the videos upside down is really annoying. Pictures......yeah ok, with photoshop no problem.

But apple really should fix this problem, i mean i have payed a lot of money for this phone.....

Camera+ works just fine taking pictures any way you prefer and transfers them all right side up. This should be done with the default camera as well, imo.

karasardelis wrote:

FYI I'm an experienced computer engineer and i know about EXIF and how to rotate photos - I just don't want to do that. I expect my device to be clever enough to save my photos and videos the way they appear on screen (like my old 3GS did btw).

Nor should you have to rotate them yourself. Here we are in agreement.

And by the way, your 3GS did it exactly the same way the iP4 and iP4S does it now if you updated to a version of iOS greater than about 3.13. I well remember the turmoil that resulted from Apple moving into the 21st century by supporting the Orientation field in exactly the same manner Canon, Nikon, etc. already supported it.

What you would also have noticed is that the time between images was significantly reduced with that update. Part of it was code optimization, I'm sure, but part was also the fact that the pitiful CPU/RAM in the 3GS was not utilized to rotate the image prior to saving.

The Orientation field has been in the EXIF spec for over 10 years now. Here's a page that talks about it in 2002: http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/exif_orientation.html. And here's one that talks about it a bit later: http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/exif-orientation.html. You'd think everyone would have implemented it by now.

It is not Apple's fault that many (not all) so-called modern software houses have never gotten off their duff and modified their software to respect the Orientation field.

crh24 wrote:

And by the way, your 3GS did it exactly the same way the iP4 and iP4S does it now if you updated to a version of iOS greater than about 3.13. I well remember the turmoil that resulted from Apple moving into the 21st century by supporting the Orientation field in exactly the same manner Canon, Nikon, etc. already supported it.

I tried it on my old 3GS and now i know what's happenning... I was ALWAYS taking pictures and photos holding the iPhone with the volume buttons down when shooting.

But now Apple at last, uses the volume buttons as a way to take a picture, so it's best practice to hold your phone with the volume buttons UP!

I believe that the phone should use it's internal sensors to save photos AND VIDEOS as they were taken, regardless of the way a user holds the phone - this is the one and only solution to the problem. EXIF information is not a solution because we are also talking about videos here and almost no video player respects the orientation information in them (except quicktime).

karasardelis wrote:

I believe that the phone should use it's internal sensors to save photos AND VIDEOS as they were taken, regardless of the way a user holds the phone - this is the one and only solution to the problem.

Why should anyone be forced to have a crippled phone? Rotating the image in a lossless manner is extremely CPU intensive and the camera would be slowed down by doing so. If you would rather have a slow camera than a fast modern camera--and that trade off may be perfectly valid for you--then be sure to tell Apple you'd like to see such an option available on iOS devices: http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Someday, when system speeds are far faster than they are now, what you want might indeed be possible, even desirable, to implement and still have a relatively fast system--but not yet. If rotating the image was the desired way to do so with available technology wouldn't you think that Nikon, Canon, etc., would do it that way, too, rather than relying on external apps?

karasardelis wrote:

EXIF information is not a solution because we are also talking about videos here and almost no video player respects the orientation information in them (except quicktime).

...and iMovie, and Adobe Premier, and Adobe Premier Elements, and Final Cut Pro, and Final Cut Pro X to name a few...but they are all video editing apps.

But I do see your point here. EXIF is a standard applicable to still images not video, has been around a long time, and still isn't implemented in all software.

Metadata use to show the orientation in video isn't a real standard yet and that may be why VLC and some other apps that are used to view video are slow to implement the flag.

I do know that Dropbox video sharing app was quickly updated to account for the flag on videos from the iPhone 4 and 4S. Even facebook has modifed their software to respect the video orientation data--I rather suspect they rotate the images during their video processing phase but I've never tested this belief. It is true that some other companies haven't been so expedient in modding their software and that can be a major inconvenience if no other apps are available to you.

However, to have the iPhone video camera app handle the rotation would also severely restrict the resolution and frame rate of the available video. There just isn't enough fast buffer memory available in iOS devices to handle such a process and maintain modern video performance.

For everyone saying that this is not a bug and it is a third party software issue, or that none of their higher end cameras rotate photos automatically...

I've had several Canon cameras, including an EOS and not one of them rotated the preview before the photo was taken, and the EXIF flag, if rotated, matched the preview as it was depicted when the photo was taken. If Apple is committed to having the photo sensed as right side up with the volume buttons toward the ground, then why not lock the image as right side up in the preview with the volume buttons down. That wouldn't require any after-shot processing and it would solve the problem. If you want an upside down image, rotate the iPhone untile the image looks upside down and take it.

MtnMac2 wrote:

For everyone saying that this is not a bug and it is a third party software issue, or that none of their higher end cameras rotate photos automatically...

In the Canon line I've owned a SD 770IS, SD900IS, G12, S95, Digital Rebel XT, 30D, 40D, T3i, and a 7D. None of them rotate the image to make the 'top' up when saving the file. All save the image as if it were taken in portrait mode and then set the EXIF flag so that a properly written program will display the image correctly, i.e. as it was taken. All of them will preview the image correctly as they should but the actual file written has the image with the top where it is in normal portrait mode. In each of these cameras the EXIF Orientation Flag is set to show how the image must be rotated to place the 'real' top at the 'top'. As for other Canon camera's, I can't say. I've owned others (Olympus, Sony, Nikon) as well, but as all of my image processing software has always handled the flag correctly I wasn't aware of the problem until I read about it in these forums. I just assumed all software would handle the flag correctly. Silly me.

The only 'shortcoming' of the Canon camera line, if one can call it that, is their sensor is limited to identifying whether the left side, right side, or top is really the top. If you snap an image with the bottom up it will be upside down because the flag is zero'd (where zero rotation is indicated by the value 1) in that orientation. So in this respect the iOS devices are actually 'better'. They sense and set the EXIF Orientation field correctly with any of the four sides at the 'top'.

MtnMac2 wrote:

I've had several Canon cameras, including an EOS and not one of them rotated the preview before the photo was taken, and the EXIF flag, if rotated, matched the preview as it was depicted when the photo was taken.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

MtnMac2 wrote:

If Apple is committed to having the photo sensed as right side up with the volume buttons toward the ground, then why not lock the image as right side up in the preview with the volume buttons down. That wouldn't require any after-shot processing and it would solve the problem. If you want an upside down image, rotate the iPhone untile the image looks upside down and take it.

Seems awfully unnatural to me. I'd find it awfully difficult to compose a shot in a pleasing manner if it was rotated in the viewfinder, i.e. the top of the viewfinder was fixed to one 'side' of the camera. I'd end up with a LOT more unusable images.

I am growing weary of CRH 24 continually reposting drivel and not admitting that there is a problem with the 4s. Perhaps he can explain why my 4s pictures always had the correct orientation when viewed on PC or Mac until very recently. It is a recent development that Apple needs to address. It is ridiculous to have to use third party software to get proper picture orientation.

crh24 wrote:

In the Canon line I've owned a SD 770IS, SD900IS, G12, S95, Digital Rebel XT, 30D, 40D, T3i, and a 7D. None of them rotate the image to make the 'top' up when saving the file.

I'm surre that when you were taking a picture upside down with your 7D it was your intention to do so!!! It's not the same with an iPhone or with any smartphone... Usually the shutter button is located upper and right - exactly where the volume up button of an iPhone is - but this results in images and videos to be taken upside-down while in the display they are shown perfectly. At least there could be some alert that the image or video will be reversed before we do that mistake.

karasardelis wrote:

crh24 wrote:

In the Canon line I've owned a SD 770IS, SD900IS, G12, S95, Digital Rebel XT, 30D, 40D, T3i, and a 7D. None of them rotate the image to make the 'top' up when saving the file.

I'm surre that when you were taking a picture upside down with your 7D it was your intention to do so!!! It's not the same with an iPhone or with any smartphone... Usually the shutter button is located upper and right - exactly where the volume up button of an iPhone is - but this results in images and videos to be taken upside-down while in the display they are shown perfectly. At least there could be some alert that the image or video will be reversed before we do that mistake.

No, it was definitely not my intention to take an upside down picture with my 7D. It was my intention to test the sensors on the 7D to see if they were as complete as those on the iPhone and they are not. It is not a 'problem', for as you said, how often does one normally take a picture with the 7D upside down unless that is the intent?

As I said, for me I didn't even know the 'problem' existed until I read a thread about it early last year (2010). I didn't use Safari to view images on my iMac, I hadn't started using Facebook or any other social app, and all other apps I used performed the rotation for me. By the time I actually posted photos to Facebook it had been updated to operate correctly. Guess this is an area where Windows needs to catch up (not a slam on Windows, just a simple statement).

Just came from the Apple Store (Genius Bar) They were unaware of the problem until shown the many pages of this forum. Showed them many pictures taken earlier without difficulty in sending to Mac or Windows. Genius said you had to take pictures with buttons up -- quickly proven to be wrong advice. They could not explain why the problem did not exist earlier. They suggested "invert the pictures in Photos before emailing to a windows user" Could not believe that advice came from a "Genius". They also said "the 4s is a new system and Apple will put out software patches."

I really like my iPad2 but have found the 4s was probably marketed before it was adequately tested for several issues. Apple users criticize Microsoft for putting things out before their time. It appears that Apple has joined Microsoft. One patch is out already and several more needed.

I think there is something to be said for the idea that Apple heavily advertises the 4S for his photo and video capabilities yet it appears from this board and conversations I've had with other iphone/Windows owners, that the biggest issue is in fact the photo and video.

Last night I discovered that my 4S videos play with unbearable lag when imported to my Windows 7 machine.