Apple Event: May 7th at 7 am PT
Is there an easy way for me to have the same Version in two different projects? Say I want a folder with the version-master but i also want to have some source material for another project that also can easily get to this image? I mean, I'd like the Project with the image and the Albums that I am working on to be in the same folder.
Do I have to re-import the image again in order to do this??
Thanks
Hi Charles.
A great many thanks here. I am really appreciative of this as it has helped a great deal on a number of issues. I'm tempted to go through and point each out and thank you for them individually but really the whole reply has been of fantastic importance over here. I think along with some others' help you have really cleared the way here.
Can I just get a brief insight into a couple last items here? For instance, I can seeing having an image that I /want/ to be in two different projects instead simply tagged with a keyword that allows it to be found along with the images in the other projects in which it does not reside. Or perhaps I go ahead and set up a Smart Album and I suppose that catches it along with the images in the other Project or Projects.
If I am going to go in and add metadata in the form of IPTC info, can I essentially skip the "sub-keyword" step and put the info in as IPTC info and run a search or filter of some kind or even a Smart Album off of keywords in the IPTC info? I see I have 50K worth of images and I am wondring if my strategy at this point is to simply put a /single/ Keyword on all the image in any particular Project.
I need to get the IPTC info sorted and I suppose what we are saying is that I can dive into a second layer of sub-keyword assignments as I find the time and the need or that I can even simply tackle this in one or two folders that need it in the short term.
Also, while a lot of my data is already in the database, some is still on my hard drive. My strategy at this point is to "vacuum" all of the images out of Finder and to bring these in to Aperture so that there are no more images in my Home Folder (this went reasonably well last time though I guess I have to be careful not to take something from a program that needs it). Am I correct in thinking that as far as we are talking, that it doesn't matter whether I assign keywords (I guess this is all I can assign to images upon import?) to the images as they come in or /once/ I have placed them into their themed folders?
I mean, the next steps from what I see is to grab all of these, put them in their respective themed folders and then assign Keywords to all the image in a folder (basically by theme). At that point I start in on assigning either additional keywords to individual images in each Project or I simply assign IPTC data to images that are going to get exported and uploaded somewhere.
The one thing I note here is that turning on Don't Import Duplicates will keep me from having to delete images which are replicating those already in the database, yes?
Again thanks for shining a light...
Most Sincerely,
Jon
hotwheels 22 wrote:
For instance, I can seeing having an image that I /want/ to be in two different projects instead simply tagged with a keyword that allows it to be found along with the images in the other projects in which it does not reside. Or perhaps I go ahead and set up a Smart Album and I suppose that catches it along with the images in the other Project or Projects.
Hi Jon,
Glad I could be of help. Sounds to me like you're starting to get it. To me it seems everything you've stated in this last post is correct, though I'm not 100% sure what you're saying in above quote. You can do whatever you like. Aperture is very flexible. In my opinion though, having duplicate versions in different projects is not 'The Best Practice', and there's no reason I can see to do it. I will always take the metadata road when I see it.
You might want to do a little experimenting with the button just to the left of the search window. It's a tiny magnifying glass (i guess) in a black rectangle. Can't remember what it's called, but it'll bring up a very powerful filtering window. Here you might hone your metadata skilz. Add some rules. Maybe IPTC and EXIF options. Maybe mutliple instances of each. Spend some time trying out different filtering criteria. Don't forget to hit the little 'X' in the window to the right that clears the filter when you're done. More than once I've forgotten that and have been left wondering what the heck happened to my library.
Here's an example: I'm considering buying some perspective control lenses. I'm wondering how wide I tend to shoot when doing architectural photography. I do an EXIF filter that shows everything shot under 24mm. I now know that the 24mm shift lens will be sufficiently wide for about 90% of the interiors I shoot. I have the info I need to make a pretty substantial investment.
Smart albums can be set up with any of the criteria that can be constructed in the filter window. Then you'll have to learn about how their placement affects the scope of the search. It's in the manual.
Keep plugging. Bone-headed determination will serve you well. It's clear to me that you're sufficiently endowed to make the most of this program :-)
Charles
You're awesome. Thanks.
Great to get the help.
FWIW, I think the deal I was trying to communicate on the "sub-keyword" thing was that it seemed sort of funny to apply a sub-keyword to only a handful of images that did not exist in the Project "Theme 1", since they were residing in a Project "Theme 2".
Since the initial plan is simply to Keyword Tag images with simply the project theme (i.e. each Image will get the name of the project as a Keyword - there was sort of this existential dilemma as to whether I should just export (and then re-import) just those 10 or so images that needed two "Main Theme" Keyword tags because they belonged in two Projects or whether these are 10 out of 50,000 that are getting a "sub-keyword" tag.
I don't know if that makes sense but I can see there will be more "keywording" going on moving forward. Also, now that I have had a chance to bounce it around with you, I /can/ see splitting off parts of an incoming shoot that belong together and simply putting it /next/ to an existing themed Project of my older images and simply under the same folder so these all reside together but there is no moving of images project to project...
Cheers and BIG thanks.
I have to admit that this 'Theme Project plus Theme Keyword' thing is a bit unusual. It's happening because you're doing projects based on themes rather than shoots. If there was an easier way to structure on shoot would you do it? It won't work unless your originals have some basic metadata already. Might not work on scans for EG.
click on 'Photos' right under 'Library'
put viewer into list view
click on date column
you're photos *should* now be listed in chronological order
select a range by the month or something
drag those into a new project named by that date range
Do this as much or as little (one project idea) you'd like to have the projects broken up, and then keyword by theme. A photo could have as many themes as you want. Make smart albums that show the themes.
Another way, which involves starting again from scratch. It would eliminate your duplicates and make most of this automatic instead of manual. But again, the originals will have to carry a date stamp already. Most likely they do.
'Import'
nav to a theme folder
'Do not import duplicates'
uncheck all
put import window in list view (middle of the 3 buttons bottom left)
select a date range
click one check box (all selected should become checked)
select theme keyword preset (might as well add copyright etc)
import into project named by date range
The only manual sorting/keywording that you'll need to do is to find the photos that have more than one theme. I'd likely do that by clicking 'Photos' under 'Library' and selecting multiple photos to keyword. I'd probably do this in Viewer mode so I could see as many thumbnails as possible at once. Or maybe I'd work in a theme album and see which of those have more than one theme.
Ultimately only you can decide what to do, but If I were you I believe I'd start over from the beginning.Then you'd have project strictly by shoot with themes by keyword and nothing duplicated. If in the future you decide a photo has a different theme, or a new theme it's very easily done.
I'm not trying to monkey-wrench your plans. I just think this will give you a library that's easily managed and makes the most sense. And that's all it is really. Your project by theme idea is fine if it works for you.
Just some more food for thought. And maybe a few pointers on how powerful the metadata tools are.
Charles
Hi Charles.
Oh boy. Thank you so much for helping me think this through.
I'd dearly love to spend the time setting this up right if I can do it and it sounds like this may be the way to go. I just have to think it through a little and make sure I have a game plan.
So - I was in the Projects in the Library and I can see how it is not ideal to be "Project-Themed". For instance I have some projects that span the years from 1999 - whatever, etc. My thought at the time was to slowly winnow these down by splitting off Projects if I wanted tighter dates but I can see how this would be problematic.
OK. So if I am following you I could /export/ by date to a folder on my desktop? And then I would /import/ with DO NOT IMPORT DUPLICATES and this would have the advantage of eliminating all duplicates? Thinking this through here a little - this would ostensibly mean that since I have duplicates, that (assuming I import in chronological order) that I would have imports that had dates AFTER the original which was imported not imported? I mean, where I now have images in a Project, if for some reason I had imported an image into the database that was identical but had an earlier DATE, then this would not be imported, is that right?
Does that then have a cascading effect to images that I have COLORED and TAGGED or that I have put into ALBUMS (which are uploaded to the web)? Can you help me here a little? I mean, I think I have deleted significant duplicates but I am right in the thick of it here and if there is a reason to not continue down this road with a method that is going to be more manageable - I mean I am buying the beers...
Also, can you help me with the naming conventions as to how this might work?! For instance I have NAME MANGLER on my computer right now and it is worth its weight in gold. I would not at all mind sitting down over the course of a day and fixing these poor windows PC names on these things. They are so sad and long and bedraggled! OMG, the names on these things are ridiculous. Name Mangler would help me clean these up but I don't know if these names would get exported in the future if I have to export images (which I do a lot) or if they may have some utility in the database that you can think of. Can I leverage the names inside the database if I fix them??!! Will they stick when I export as this would be a big help.
Lastly, I understand that you are saying that I can then ADD KEYWORDS to the images AS THEY ARE IMPORTED by date if I go this route.
Is there a way to "pre-tag" images that have been organized into my PROJECTS as they exist currently before exporting them and doing this?! I have images in a folder - for instance - "Manuscript" or "Research" and as I read your kind response here I realize that this was a lot of time to "organize" over the last five or six or seven years and that while they are "organized" in the database now, I may lose this if I start all over...
Where do I send the check?
- Jon
hotwheels 22 wrote:
OK. So if I am following you I could /export/ by date to a folder on my desktop? And then I would /import/ with DO NOT IMPORT DUPLICATES and this would have the advantage of eliminating all duplicates?
Hello Again,
That's not really what I was thinking. I thought you had folders of photos outside of Aperture organized by theme. I If that's the case I might just start completely fresh with a new library, and do the sorting by date on import. If you don't want to do that you'd just continue on your present course.
I was also trying to show how you can view your library in different ways that might help with the shuffling. List view can let you see where the versions are living, under 'Project Path'. If you don't see that column you can learn how to add it in the manual. List view also allows you to click on any column and have the list sorted by that, so if you click on file name and you have 2 files with the same name you'll see them adjacent to each other if you're looking at 'Photos' right below 'Library'.
I'm not big on naming conventions so I don't have much to say about that. I use 'Batch Change' under 'Metadata' to rename by project name and counter. You can do a lot of other things in there too.
Charles
Hi Charles,
I have been thinking about your suggestions and comments and I am hoping you can hang in there with me as I nail this down.
Right now I have most of the images already in Aperture in Projects (sorted by theme). This came over from iPhoto and really there was no other way to do this because in effect they were never sorted by shoot. I mean, I had to basically /vaccum/ these with a creative Spotlight search from off my Windows hard drive folder organization and then put them into iPhoto. I've had some great suggestions on modifying my workflow to keep them arranged inside and outside Aperture moving forward but this was never really an issue in Windows in the sense that they basically existed on my hard drive like my txt files or my pages files of numbers files or whatever are on my hard drive now. Nestled under multiple subfolders all over the place.
But I /can/ now see how I could retroactively sort them by shoot in Aperture.
And this is intriguing.
So when you mentioned importing - I had thought you were indicating that I should just export them to the Desktop and then import them and assign Keywords upon import that would ostensibly be by SHOOT because I would select common dates. And having them on the desktop and seeing their names in List View made me realize that over the course of a day I could rename everything to some title that would make sense where they really don't now.
Anyway, I know this thread is getting rather long but I am correct in thinking that there is no robust renaming utility in Aperture is that right?
I guess you also see it as a bad idea to /export/ images that are already in Aperture which has a reasonably involved set of Albums which I need and which I have uploaded to the web is that right?
Also, I gather you would have nothing against my sorting by date as you describe and then creating a Project with that data and /moving/ the images to a Project with a date? I think someone earlier has said they have a Project naming convention that goes something like 20111107_Big Trip etc.
I mean, help me here but if I ASSIGN KEYWORDS NOW that reflect my "theme" before I move them out of the Project, this would get it moving in the right direction, yes? Then I could assign more keywords as I drill down at a later date.
I mean, I have my Albums. And I really do have my Keywords because they are sorted by theme in Projects in Aperture right now - and just thinking off the top of my head here - but it sounds to me like to get where you are I just have to run a sort by date in List view and move them to new Projects (after I assign the Keywords and/or Metadata while they are in the "theme sort"). Then I can sort by Theme based upon a Keyword Filter, yes?
Thanks
Jon
hi e.
not sure if you are still on here but apologies for missing this.
i think for me that there is a bit of a battle going on obviously with the "themes" but i would say that i have a Folder called "mathematical" and then i have Projects in this folder called "algebraic" or "arithmetic" or "division" or whatever. And then I have a folder called "manuscript" and it may have Projects called "book 1" and "book 2" and book 3" or whatever. Then there may be a Folder called "architecture" and a Project called "good construction examples" and one called "good architecture examples".
so, i kept hearing the one Project - one Shoot methodology and since my data is coming from a Windows environment there is no longer any organization by "Shoot". I mean, even my physical slides and my physical negatives that aren't in the computer don't still have each roll in the proper order necessarily and in windows this is a mess because I just dragged whatever I needed around and then copied and renamed etc, etc.
So I am using "Theme" to describe the organization I was trying to put them in within each Folder (e.g. "architecture" and then I guess the sub-theme would be "good construction examples" or "good architecture examples". because I didn't have any organization by shoot it seemed natural to keep organizing them by theme which is effectively what I had in windows I guess. I mean it gets ugly in windows real fast because you have places where you are working on images that you trash later and places where you have a final set (like Albums) etc.
It's a very good question because I didn't really think twice about it until you asked. I'm finding this one tricky but manageable and I guess I would propose (?) that I would move forward by importing images and assigning them a "Theme" and/or a "Sub-Theme" by tagging them with these as Keyword. That way I can sort them in this manner in the future.
The thing I was trying to hash out was how to get what is in there now organized in a manner that will let me move forward.
Anyway, I am hoping I am almost there...
Goodwill.
Hi Charles.
Can I assume that this strategy sounds productive to you?
Since I currently have the images sorted into folders by Topic/Theme, I can tag them with a Keyword that is identical to this Topic/Theme and /then/ I can /move/ them to a new Project that is sorted by Date/Shoot.
This way I retain the sort that I have done but I start the database with individual Projects that contain one Date/Shoot, which is the organization I would also use for all new incoming photos, yes?
Then the only other items would be that my already set up Albums will remain in place because I am not changing anything with them - and I can go ahead with manually deleting duplicates because I have two ways to not make a mistake here. First, I have highlighted each Version in an Album with a Color so that I can see that any Version in a Project is associated with an Album and second, Aperture will warn me if I am deleting what visually seems to be a duplicate of another Version but that is also referenced in another Album.
Thanks,
jon
That sounds right to me.
chas.
i think for me that there is a bit of a battle going on obviously with the "themes" but i would say that i have a Folder called "mathematical" and then i have Projects in this folder called "algebraic" or "arithmetic" or "division" or whatever. And then I have a folder called "manuscript" and it may have Projects called "book 1" and "book 2" and book 3" or whatever. Then there may be a Folder called "architecture" and a Project called "good construction examples" and one called "good architecture examples".
It's a very good question because I didn't really think twice about it until you asked. I'm finding this one tricky but manageable and I guess I would propose (?) that I would move forward by importing images and assigning them a "Theme" and/or a "Sub-Theme" by tagging them with these as Keyword. That way I can sort them in this manner in the future.
Looking at the examples it would make sence to figure out the total taxonomy before creating and taging the keywords:
"algebraic", "arithmetic", "division". All photo's in this project will be taged algebraic, some will be taged arithmetich and other division.
"manuscript" and the "book 1" and "book 2" and book 3" or whatever can probably put into different keywords having logical names. Probably the subject of the book?
The 'good construction examples' as a keyword doesn't make sense to me. This would be one overall keyword: construction. I would give the rating based on the number of stars.
Would this make sense to you?
Hi eltjofromu,
Thank you. this is really a great help.
Can I tease this out with you a little more just to finalize it?
1. If I think about it there is no reason I can't simply - at least momentarily - tag the /current/ organization with "project #1", "project #2", project #3" and so on. And then /change/ this to something else later once I consider it more. The key is to make sure that I tag them with a keyword NOW before I sort them into a Project by Date or Shoot organization, right?!
2. I mean, since they are organized in a way that makes sense to me /now/ - I don't want to lose this when I put them back to be organized by Date the Photos Were Taken. I mean, this organization into Date Photos Were Taken seems to me to be what everyone means by "one project one shoot", Yes?
3. Also, I guess I have been having a bit of a battle with the fact that I find it easiest to drag and drop since I have been doing this for years. I find it pretty direct since the images actually go where they need to go and they /disappear/ once they have been sorted. When I finish a sort there are no more images in a folder. Can I ask you if there is a way to "turn off visibility" for a Keyword or Keywords, so that when I sort Images that are in a Project by Keywords that they actually are no longer seen in the Project? I mean, I can see wanting to tag everything in a Project with a Keyword and if they go away when I do this it will make assigning these easier for me, I think. Then I could turn on visibility later. Does that make sense? I do this from a visibility filter somewhere, yes?
4. I don't intend on using Stars or Flags from what I can tell. I am just using Albums for images that are in use and I am leaving alone any image that is not used. Also, at this point in time I have gone ahead and COLORED any image that is in an Album by adding a color to different Albums. This way I can see that they are in an album almost immediately when I look in the Project. If an image has a purple color in a project I then know it is in one of my "creative" Albums and so on. I also know it is published to the web because all my Albums at the moment get uploaded to the web. Does that make sense to you? The one thing that I can see improving upon here is if I set up a SMART ALBUM that grabbed all the images that I tagged moving forward. Then I could simply ASSIGN AN ALBUM KEYWORD to an image that I wanted in my creative Album (say this Keyword was "creative album 1") then this image would automatically get added, yes? Does this make sense to you? Do you know if there is a way to tell all the images in an Album to be colored purple, for instance, so that I didn't have to go in and do this manually as I am doing now?
5. OK. "good construction examples". From what I can tell I can work out the Keyword Taxonomy as I move along, yes? I mean if Book 1 etc does not work great I can change it. Or if I want I can somehow tell Aperture to show me only the images that have that keyword - and then I can either change the name of the keyword to something else or i can subdivide the images in that keyword and split them into two other keyword or even add "sub - keywords" (like a second keyword) to some of the images, yes? The one thing I have not figured out is that I really don't ever (like ever) take a "shoot" in the conventional sense of one block of photos is one theme or one topic. If i upload images (say 50 images from a week or a trip or whatever) I will have photos that might be someone else's buildings under construction (7 images), there might be one of my projects under construction (15 images), there might be of a friend or of something interesting that I saw (13 images) or of someone's sculptural work (12 images) or maybe the title of a book or a shot of a product I want to buy (6 images) . Right now I take all the projects under construction and dump them into a "construction photos" Project and I take the sculptural photos and dump them into a "creative" project and I take the photos of my project and I put them into a project with client's name etc, etc. And we are saying that I am now going to stop doing this once I get the database together and instead I am going to add KEYWORD instead and leave all these disparate images in the same project as I move forward, yes?
Thank you!!
Jon
1. If I think about it there is no reason I can't simply - at least momentarily - tag the /current/ organization with "project #1", "project #2", project #3" and so on. And then /change/ this to something else later once I consider it more. The key is to make sure that I tag them with a keyword NOW before I sort them into a Project by Date or Shoot organization, right?!
Correct by taging this way you will be able to go back to the old structure.
2. I mean, since they are organized in a way that makes sense to me /now/ - I don't want to lose this when I put them back to be organized by Date the Photos Were Taken. I mean, this organization into Date Photos Were Taken seems to me to be what everyone means by "one project one shoot", Yes?
I think so too.
3. Also, I guess I have been having a bit of a battle with the fact that I find it easiest to drag and drop since I have been doing this for years. I find it pretty direct since the images actually go where they need to go and they /disappear/ once they have been sorted. When I finish a sort there are no more images in a folder. Can I ask you if there is a way to "turn off visibility" for a Keyword or Keywords, so that when I sort Images that are in a Project by Keywords that they actually are no longer seen in the Project? I mean, I can see wanting to tag everything in a Project with a Keyword and if they go away when I do this it will make assigning these easier for me, I think. Then I could turn on visibility later. Does that make sense? I do this from a visibility filter somewhere, yes?
You can use the filter and add rule keyword, in order to see all non-keyworded photo's select 'are not applied'
4. I don't intend on using Stars or Flags from what I can tell. I am just using Albums for images that are in use and I am leaving alone any image that is not used. Also, at this point in time I have gone ahead and COLORED any image that is in an Album by adding a color to different Albums. This way I can see that they are in an album almost immediately when I look in the Project. If an image has a purple color in a project I then know it is in one of my "creative" Albums and so on. I also know it is published to the web because all my Albums at the moment get uploaded to the web. Does that make sense to you? The one thing that I can see improving upon here is if I set up a SMART ALBUM that grabbed all the images that I tagged moving forward. Then I could simply ASSIGN AN ALBUM KEYWORD to an image that I wanted in my creative Album (say this Keyword was "creative album 1") then this image would automatically get added, yes? Does this make sense to you? Do you know if there is a way to tell all the images in an Album to be colored purple, for instance, so that I didn't have to go in and do this manually as I am doing now?
Correct, makes sense. I don't know an automated way. However if you use smart album, you could make an additional one which includes all the one with a keyword, you can then assign the collor to all keyworded photo's. You don't have to go through each and every album anymore.
5. OK. "good construction examples". From what I can tell I can work out the Keyword Taxonomy as I move along, yes? I mean if Book 1 etc does not work great I can change it. Or if I want I can somehow tell Aperture to show me only the images that have that keyword - and then I can either change the name of the keyword to something else or i can subdivide the images in that keyword and split them into two other keyword or even add "sub - keywords" (like a second keyword) to some of the images, yes? The one thing I have not figured out is that I really don't ever (like ever) take a "shoot" in the conventional sense of one block of photos is one theme or one topic. If i upload images (say 50 images from a week or a trip or whatever) I will have photos that might be someone else's buildings under construction (7 images), there might be one of my projects under construction (15 images), there might be of a friend or of something interesting that I saw (13 images) or of someone's sculptural work (12 images) or maybe the title of a book or a shot of a product I want to buy (6 images) . Right now I take all the projects under construction and dump them into a "construction photos" Project and I take the sculptural photos and dump them into a "creative" project and I take the photos of my project and I put them into a project with client's name etc, etc. And we are saying that I am now going to stop doing this once I get the database together and instead I am going to add KEYWORD instead and leave all these disparate images in the same project as I move forward, yes?
Your workflow looks normal. The problem arrised when you wanted to put the same picture in different project.
With your database having thousants of pictures it would makes sense to work on the keywording taxonomy first. In your current way of speaking it looks to me as if you are using a combination of keywords as one. It's better to use single keywords and assign mulitipe keywords to your photo's. In the smart album you will be able to gather the photo's together again. I could be wrong on this?
Oh. Man.
Thanks so much for your insights. It's been a tricky deal getting this data info mac and then getting it sorted is a whole different story. Obviously i can see the power. Also a big thanks to Charles and everyone else on this issue.
I think I am good to go now.
Can I please ask you here if you have a managed database or if you have a referenced database and whether you have a backup of the images /outside/ of Aperture? When I was trying to bring these in it was like a ton of data and I wasn't really set up for or thinking about keeping the data outside of iPhoto (at the time). I kept some for awhile just in case I screwed something in the port to Mac.
But, I mean if I put images on an external database as backup /before/ I import the data that doubles the amount of space it is taking up. Is this necessary?
Also, do you run some kind of Vault routine in addition or in place of this? I read the manual but I think I'm a bit confused as to whether my normal backup routine (I have backups in triplicate...) is OK or if I have to be doing something else.
Now that I'm finally getting organized in the mac I hate to have a problem not understanding this one...
Thanks a ton.
My database is party managed and most of it is referenced. There are several other posts related to back-up strategies. The way to check your back-up stategy is to actually try to restore something.. I'm trusting the Time capsule as my a hourly back-up for the aperture database. When you open time capsule to retore a old copy of a version I'm unable to see it, the application database is closed. I guess I need to work on a better routine too and start reading the manual.
Two versions in two different Projects?
