iMovie Vs Final Cut Express/pro and making$$$?

Poppijade, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. Yes, I'm very serious about integrating still images into video. As a photographer and multi-image producer(multi-projector slide montages choreographed to music), I've been presenting shows for two decades. The issue for me is not whether FCP can improve color balance, contrast etc... since all images are edited, optimized, and "managed" prior to importation into iMovie. 1) My concern is primarily the wavy-lines distortion which accompanys long Ken Burn zooms. 2)Also the distracting jostling/crunching movement of pixels within a motionless image of 5 or more seconds in duration.
Q-A)Would FCP eliminate or reduce these 2 problems?

Regarding audio, FCP voice-over enhancements, etc... is not a perk for me, since my soundtracks only use music with occasional sound effects.
Q-B) Given this limited need, would FCP provide a superior hi-fi listening experience?

When you stated, "forget using iTunes in FCP," I misunderstood - thinking that you were referring to a technical shortcoming. I now realize it was about ©opyright infringement of music from the iTune store. Of course iMovie requires that music is imported via iTunes. (Any music in my productions is either an original composition made in GarageBand or a tune created specifically for the imagery through direct collaboration with musicians.)

Ultimately these presentations are projected in live concert performances...sometimes with dance and spoken word/poetry. DVDs are available for purchase. Thus, quality of visuals is critical. So, considering all of this rather lengthy data input...
Q-C) Are you confident that Final Cut Pro would provide SIGNIFICANTLY improved image quality for my specific needs?

If indeed it will, I shall gladly invest time and expense in learning the program. (Perhaps I'll post this in the FCP discussion room. Maybe a fellow photographer has already dealt with this quandry...)

Poppijade, I value your insights and encourage further clarification of previous points if you wish. Your writing conveys a sense of ethics, aesthetics, and production value.

Hey Poppijade,

I recently purchased FCE and oh man! Big learning curve there. I am used to using iMovie so i know what you mean...I think I am gonna go take one of those courses on learning FCP from scratch.

With regards to using music...I am in the process of trying to launch my own editing side business in the wedding and event market (I know it is stiff competition but hey, maybe i am just creative enough to make it fly) and I have not been able to get a clear direction on what to do with regards to copyright on music.

It was mentioned that I need to get a "license" Now is this an individual and renewable yearly license to use any copyright music that I download for clients?

I have investigated with some of my "Competitors" and what they are claiming in their contracts says the opposite of this. Some of these people are charging for and downloading straight from iTunes and including disclaimers in their contracts that the client is paying for the download and are responsible for copyright and use.

I need to figure this out so if you have any links for me to read up on I would appreciate it!

Thanks.

It seems in my haste (work to do) I did leave out some of the main areas I dealt with in handling photos without ruining them in video (FCP).

1. Work in RGB; FCP at least cannot work with CMYK.
2. FCP works in pixel dimensions. Filling the screen (720p) I used 1280x720 (HD).
3. If you start panning etc. keep the DPI down. video is basically 72DPI so you cannot escape. but you must double the dimensions to sort of compromise between what FCP can handle and the pictiure quality.
4. Use the best external video monitor you can get your hands on (do not use your computer monitor) to actually assess color.
I hope it is clear from some of this why iMovie is not a first choice.

I first must apologize for not responding to the specifics of your questions but rambled about FCP and photos. I must also apologize for hijacking this thread or at least participating in it.
Maybe you should create a new thread in the FCP Forum and get the benefit of other and more expert advice. My view of what you describe is that I have never found the "Ken Burns effect" very satisfying. The artifacts you see have arise from, I believe, the pixel (video) vs dimensionphoto) issues. I have been using FCP because it gives me maximum control over time etc. I do not go overboard with panning and scanning. I must admit that I find photos to be a very different and very powerful media to tell a story , evoke an emotional reponse, etc than "moving pictures". For me a photo has the power equivalent to that "blink of the eye" that tells an editor to cut the frame at that point. A photo without movement can make a piece of work succeed that no video can approach. So, in the arena of creation, FCP can help but it depends on what you are trying to do.
From a process point of view: Given the amount of shoots for video and the photos supplied or available, the media management process alone requires FCP. Thus for both editing (creating) and just keeping tabs on what you have and what you are doing I would certainly give FCP a try. But I do think less is more.

It's not the camera, it's the shooter.

It's not the software, it's the editor.

It is fair to say that FCP is needed for pro editing - but this is not a requirement for happy clients.

In other media like painting or music, artists sometimes are pleasantly surprised when they intentionally limit their tools to just a few - having many less choices to make greatly speeds up their creative work.

There are many FCP users, who, after trying to make rolling credits and titles in FCP (egad), find that iMovie lets them do those tasks very quickly, and it remains their secret weapon for meeting deadlines.

1.5Ghz 12" AlBook Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Consult a lawyer and do a search for royalty free music.

Thanks for the examples

What is the music you used

@Rich:
talking of "looking fatanstic": I highly recommend deinterlacing any video before publishing via web...- esp. your movie about chalkpainting really suffers under that interlacing-lines....

@Hoser:
you said it in less words - +!

@Rich:

talking of "looking fatanstic": I highly recommend deinterlacing any video before publishing via web...- esp. your movie about chalkpainting really suffers under that interlacing-lines....<<<

Karsten, please explain to me in more detail what you mean. How and why should I deinterlace a video?

Thanks, Rich

Hi Rich Sheikh (besides: VERY cool nic!!:-) ),

a picture says more then a thousands words, a screenshot from the very first minutes, look at the hand....:



you see some horizontal lines - that is, because a video pic contains lines; these lines are transmitted first odds, then even... if anything moves within these two cycles, you'll realize a "jitter".

deinterlacing a picture means in technical terms a reduction of detail, but the eye gets tricked: it looks "smoother". some expansive camcorders offer a "progressive" feature, no interlacing while recording => a more "filmish look"



now, I removed the odd lines and doubled the evens... that is done in Photohop, because we needed just a still....
you can add this film touch to an iM project with a free tool you get here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#DEI

besides aspects of taste ("film look better!"), on a web's presentation I would deinterlace too........

have fun with your projects!

<blush!>

I just came across this topic, and noted some kind words (..further back up the topic..) from Karl..!

I have - but seldom use - Final Cut Express HD and Final Cut Pro HD.

I normally use just iMovie ..now enhanced as iMovie HD.

That's because it's just so simple to use. It doesn't "get in the way" of doing whatever you want to do. I don't believe in using "professional tools" just because professionals supposedly use them. Like Karl, I use whatever is appropriate to just getting the thing done..

The quality of image - in ordinary Standard Definition, anyway - is absolutely no different whether you use iMovie or one of the Final Cut programs. (..I'm talking about video quality, not the quality of photos ..a bit about that in a moment..) ..That makes iMovie a "professional" tool: the quality of video resolution, sharpness, or whatever, is no different from that of Final Cut Pro. (With Hi-Definition footage there can be a miniscule, unobservable, difference: FCP can handle HD "natively", whereas iMovie HD and FCE HD have to convert the footage into an intermediate form, and then back again if you're sending material back to tape.)

I used to do, among many other things, radio items for the BBC ..where you were supposed to use quarter-inch tape at 7.5 inches per second for good quality. As long as I delivered my material like that, no-one knew, or bothered, that it was mainly recorded on cassettes (at one-&-seven-eighths inches per sec!) or Mini-Disc, or with a tin-can-&-a-piece-of-string.

iMovie's like that. The results can be indistinguishable from using Final Cut, or anything else. FCP does have a thousand other features which iMovie doesn't have ..but I find that they get in the way; they're too complex to remember, they're too fiddly to use ..it's just overkill.

I shoot - from time to time - weddings, other celebrations, theatrical performances, etc ..but I never bother with "time code", or "log & capture", or other so-called "professional" considerations: I write on each tape what I'm shooting, and click the anti-erase tab after I've shot. I remember roughly what's on each tape.

A "professional" editor working with FCP generally is just editing, and hasn't shot the material her/himself ..so they do have to "log" what's on each tape, because they're seeeing it - in many cases - for the first time.

But I know that Tape 1 is "Guests Arriving", Tape 2 is "2nd-half of Service" and "Signing the Book". I don't need to be bothered with logging it all within the editing program; I just want to import it and start cutting it ..and most of the cutting I did in my head while I was shooting. I'm not using a "professional" word processor to write these words ..it's just not necessary for what I'm doing. And you can write a screenplay with anything: you don't need ' Final Draft' for $230.

However, while you shoot, be aware of WHAT YOU WILL NEED. That means some overall "long shots"; some spare shots which you can cut away to (..stained glass windows, pretty ornaments around the church/synagogue/temple, etc); uninterrupted SOUND, so record everything separately on a Mini-Disc or DAT recorder with a separate mic ..if you think of this before and while you're shooting, then editing afterwards just becomes a matter of assembling the good stuff, and throwing away the unwanted stuff.

You can make an EXCELLENT wedding, or business, video using just iMovie: there are two audio tracks ..and you can stack virtually unlimited audio clips on just those two tracks.. and, if you know how to count, you can insert, match, join, dissolve, jump, intermingle any shots you like. (..I'm looking for one I've recently done ..but it wouldn't mean anything without also seeing the plain, original unedited material ..maybe I'll do a "before and after" on an "iWeb" page in the next week or two [..and I'm teaching how to do all this in September at ' The Grange', in England ..Shameless plug..])

iMovie, as already mentioned, does NOT have the precision colour-tweaking facilities of Final Cut. I'm not too bothered about colours being "off" as long as I've got roughly the correct colour balance for outside (daylight) or indoors (incandescent) so that sequences indoors don't look yellow, and sequences outdoors don't look blue. I keep a piece of folded up white paper with me, and set the white balance, wherever I am, just a moment or two before I shoot ..then I know I've got it right at the shooting stage. [..A professional editor, dealing with, say, a TV journalist's daily shots, may have to make colour corrections because the camera-person's forgotten to remove the daylight filter when they moved indoors, and didn't notice that in their "professional" black-&-white viewfinder. I don't have that problem, so I don't need expert post-production colour tweaking..]

So, all in all, I process photos in " Still Life" if I want to pan or zoom across them as part of a video (..stills of the bride & groom before the ceremony, or as children, etc..) and then I import those sequences into iMovie.

I always shoot "wild track" audio if I'm shooting something important, then the audio isn't chopped up by the video start/stop button, and afterwards I can layer any audio I want as a "bed" beneath the video.

Just think what you want to create as a video, and THEN, as Karl says above, choose the tool which lets you do that with the least fuss. But always THINK AHEAD, so that you've got sufficient footage - and audio - to use creatively.

For me, iMovie is brilliant. I don't need FCE or FCP. I just import my footage; cut and drag the clips around as I want them; layer the audio as I want it; add the transitions I want - and for that, you DO need to be able to count in iMovie, and to remember that (..unlike working with excess footage in Final Cut..) adding a transition shortens a sequence by the duration of the transition! - and that's it!

Final Cut is more stable than iMovie (..which may occasionally be unpredictable..) but as long as you make backups, and keep your original tapes, I find it's faster to use, simpler, easier, just as capable, and the results are indistinguishable.

But ..as the car ads say.. your mileage may vary.

..You might want to try learning Final Cut Express, and there are lots of books, DVDs, and even courses at the major Apple Stores if you're interested. If you're anywhere near an Apple Store, you could spend a day there playing with it. I first tried Final Cut Pro (version 2) back in 1999, or 2000, at the Workers' Educational Association in Manchester, England. Then I bought a day's tuition, and learned how to use it, and managed to wangle a copy at an Education price (£199, I think).

[..P.S: I may benefit, by a couple of quid, by mentioning here my movie class at 'The Grange'. But this post isn't meant as an advert, it's simply my opinion..]

You've probably gotten the gist of what everyone's saying by now. As my father says, "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian." No offense to any native Americans. I carry a bit of the blood myself. Of course he was referencing my purchase of yet another set of golf clubs in self assurance that my scores would improve. Er...not quite. But it holds true across the board.

I'll just reiterate what I posted earlier - if you're making money and impressing clients with iMovie then keep moving forward.

I've been working in broadcasting for a little over 26 years now. Things have changed dramatically through the years. Equipment and staffs have gotten smaller and smaller. The tools make it incredibly easy now to "accomplish the mission" as it were. We started out using 2" videotape, then 1", then 3/4", then 1/2", and now, what is it, 1/4"? 1/8th"? Can you imagine trying to fit a D2 cassette in your shirt pocket? Editing? Don't even get me started on what we USED to do. The cameras used to be HUGE. Now they fit in the palm of your hand and they shoot better quality video than the old three-tubes did. Started out typing scripts on a manual Underwood (still my favorite). Now of course you can't even find a typewriter anywhere. Shoot, you don't even have to type anymore, just dictate and the software will do the typing for you.

So all of those things and many more have changed. But one thing hasn't....it all starts with the script. Bad script, bad product. Bad video, bad product. GIGO. Editing is the LAST step, not the first. Research and pre-planning are the keys to a successful shoot, not the software you're editing on.

A compelling story is a compelling story, period. Some of the most incredible special effects films have been the absolute worst movies. Some of the most basic movies as far as production elements have won awards. I think a movie a few years back that was all the rage with film critics was edited using iMovie.

Keep on truckin'. You'll know when it's time to step up to the "bigtime."

That's my additional two cents worth.

Cheers



iMac Duo Core 20" 1.5 GB mem x1600 128, 160 GB USB & FW Drives Mac OS X (10.4.4) G4 AGP w/Sonnet 1.2 UG, 1gig, 80 GB HD, 160 & 200 GB moons

Imovie is a fine consumer application, perhaps one of the best. It can be a toy, a very effective tool for personal use, or for the occasional project that needs to satisfy another consumer. The original post raised the question about earning revenue. I have no doubt that there are people who will pay for projects done with iMovie and I am sure that there are some projects that are worth more than one viewing that are made with iMovie as a tool. I am hoping however that the very few who can tell a story worth seeing more than once will at least try to use a tool that does not get in their way of telling a story that is worth experiencing more than twice. iMovie will get in the way of those who have a story to tell and that they wish to tell more than twice.

Hi There!

Late as usual but yes I do earn a living using iMovie.

Three years ago I was very ill and to convalesce I went to work for a master bookbinder. He had been a bookbinder for 60 years and I was so impressed with his skill that I took my DV camcoder into the bindery and filmed him restoring a family bible.

To divert myself I taught myself iMovie 2. I did not find it easy but after many late nights I found I had an acceptable programme of 55 minutes. It has been very well received and now I have 6 programmes which will soon be available through amazon.com

I love iMovie 2, iMovie 4.01, iMovie 5 and now I am just about to try iMovie 6
fingers crossed!

However I found that when I wanted to sell my work to the world on DVD I had to use Final Cut and DVD Pro. This is because one needs Dolby Sound to ensure the DVD plays in USA DVD players. Ditto DVD authoring iDVD will not do although it is a wonderful programme.

Up to iMovie 5, I am not sure about iMovie 6, iMovie had embedded sound and this is just not usable commercially. Actually I think this is iMovie's Achilles heel. The sound is just not quite good enough. I had to work out many work arounds to get passable sound.

So I have had to learn Final Cut Pro , mainly so I could make the audio change with the Compressor. It is very, very different.

Yes, the results of FC Pro are better. The colour correction filters are magic. The sound is just superior as one has so much control but I still enjoy iMovie and I use it if I want to do little promos quickly.

I never thought 4 years ago when I was dying that I should have a new life through iMovie. It kept me alive by distracting me from my horrible illness and has given me something to live for.

But to get these programmes up and running I have had to learn five huge computer programmes, Final Cut Pro. Compressor, DVD Studio Pro, Dreamwaver, well I have to have a web site, Fireworks and Photoshop, all in six months. I find moving between platforms confusing especially with key commands which seem to be all different. FC Pro has it feels like hundreds!

All because I want to make a record of a remarkable Master Craftsman.

I am almost there! If I can do it virtually anyone can. I have had great help from this forum, especailly Karl. Making the PAL/NTSC change was perhaps the greatest challenge.

If you have a passion, as I have for Bookbinding and iMovie, today with a basic camera, a basic edit programme and time you can share it with the world.

For distribution I use CustomFlix DVD on Demand and I find it excellent. They need more product so go for it!

Hope that helps

Jane