Can I send photo via email not upside down?

Dave Hutch wrote:

Because that's what many have reported.

And why are many reporting this? Could it be because the camera is now upside down?

Dave Hutch wrote:

Personally I use a photo editing photo and all orientation tags are respected and shown correctly, hence my comment.

Yes, I'm forced to use photo and video editing software too now... BECAUSE THE CAMERA IS UPSIDE DOWN.

Dave Hutch wrote:

I'm bored with this thread now. I've given you the necessary information to ensure you can view your photos correctly and have told you that I see no such issue with videos.

You can ignore the info or work with it, the choice is yours.

End of

Its a good thing that you're dropping out of the discussion because you still don't get it.

As I've already mentioned, this discussion is not about the hacks/workarounds (which you're so helpful in referring to). It's about the underlying issue that THE CAMERA IS UPSIDE DOWN and needs to be rotated (via a software update).

Dave Hutch wrote:

Windows Explorer showing incorrect image orientation (1st image is buttons top right)

Yes because the iphone camera is upside down and the majority of lay-people use Windows Explorer.

And I thought you had no issues. Did you try the Safara test I mentioned? Obviously not.

Dave Hutch wrote:

Windows preview also showing incorrect orientation

Yes because the iphone camera is upside down and the majority of lay-people use Windows preview

Dave Hutch wrote:

Adobe Bridge showing correct orientation of images and landscape videos as per exif tags

Yes, but the iphone camera is still upside down and the majority of lay-people DO NOT use Adobe Bridge.

Dave Hutch wrote:

Faststone Image Viewer showing correct orientation as per exif tags

Yes, but the iphone camera is still upside down and the majority of lay-people DO NOT use FIV.

Dave Hutch wrote:

QuickTime showing correct orientation for all videos

Yes, because QT is apple software, but the iphone camera is still upside down and the majority of lay-people DO NOT use QT

Dave Hutch wrote:

Hope that helps

Yes in that you've just helped me emphasise my point, that the iphone camera is upside down.

Even if everything changed and everyone used the EXIF standard, the iphone camera would still be upside down.

mfarqwa wrote:

And yes video is being taken upside down. All my videos are upside down and so are many others in the other thread. I had to use Windows Movie Maker to rotate them.

Yes, because QT is apple software, but the iphone camera is still upside down and the majority of lay-people DO NOT use QT

The iPhone produces .mov files.

What do the majority of people use to play those movies back? I would suggest QuickTime is exactly what should be used.

Windows Media Player doesn't recognise the file type, at least on my PC. Is that what you use?

I'm using win7. I think its media player 9. i'm not home at the moment to double check, but that's beside the point. The iphone is a mobile device. The average person is sending pics and video upside down because they're not aware of the fixes and workarounds or exif, and they're doing it while they're mobile. It needs to be fixed for that reason.

Dave Hutch wrote:

I would suggest QuickTime is exactly what should be used.

What should and what is are two different things. Windows doesn't ship with Quicktime. QT is an apple product. You can't blame windows for not conforming to it's rivals specs especially when it's rival has a product that is upside down.

And you can't expect everyone to know what software to use. I know people who hardly know how to turn a computer on, let alone download and use some software. You can't blame their computer illiteracy on a product that is upside down and say EXIF fixes it. The workarounds you and others suggest are just a fix after the fact.

Wether you use software A or software B, C or D or follow the EXIF Standard or not is irrelevant. The issue is the iphones camera. If Apple advertise their iphone to take photo and video with the volume button, then this should be it's upright position regardless of any picture standards.

Anyway I'm just repeating my self again...

We understand your frustrations but this is really not an Apple problem.

The thing to understand is that the iPhone is not merely a cameraphone or cell phone with a camera but it actually works much more like an actual camera in the way that it stores and tags photos. Most consumer digital cameras from known brands such as Canon, Nikon, Sony you can buy today will rotate photos using the EXIF orientation tag; this is the standard for digital cameras. I'm sure there are some low cost cameras and cell phones that do not bother to give any EXIF information but in the camera market this is standard. Please understand that this is not an Apple only specification.

You have suggested that the iPhones camera is upside down and have said that if Apple simply flips it with a software update, it would solve the problem. The problem is actually that Windows and other Microsoft applications continue to not support EXIF orientation tag. What you've suggested might solve your issue but in fact the problem would remain. Your solution would only "fix" photos taken in the new default orientation (volume buttons top right, as you suggested) but photos taken in any other orientation; portrait or with the volume buttons on the bottom would continue to display incorrectly in Windows and other Microsoft applications due to the lack of EXIF support. We would then have this entire discussion all over again because there are people who would prefer the default orientation as it is now.

Please note although Apple does advertise the availability of using the volume button as a shutter, it does not give any suggested orientation or preferred orientation. This is because Apple supports its users taking photos in ANY orientation.

Microsoft has stated that it does not support EXIF orientation because other applications may not support it either. This is a bad stance to have in regards to a standard that is widely used by camera manufacturers. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2001954 There has been several iterations of Windows and yet Microsoft continues to hold this stance. I would direct my frustration towards Microsoft and let them hear your suggestions on how to improve their system.

Take the time and hear some of the suggestions that many here have given. Software does exist on Windows that will allow you to view photos correctly. If you are truly passionate about your photos I would suggest you invest in software or a platform that does your photos and videos justice.

Cristofer Cruz wrote:

We understand your frustrations but this is really not an Apple problem.

The following informaiton was taken when uploading a photo (taken as advertised by Apple advertisements) to regex.info/exif.cgi

EXIF — this group of metadata is encoded in 12,278 bytes (12.0k)

Now if the iphone is recording a photo taken in it's upright position as needing to be rotated 180 degrees, isn't this a problem?? Why don't they update the iOS software to record proper EXIF information? This means all exif information is being recorded back to front and upside down... that's just being lazy.

Also, as I've mentioned many times:

- Some digital cameras can also capture video. The Exif standard has no provision for video files.

(Wikipedia - EXIF - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif#Problems)

I too experienced the problem of iphone pictures showing up in gmail sideways. So I developed an app to help email the picture with the correct orientation. You can select a picture from your camera roll and email it. The app will automatically correct the rotation if necessary. Search for "Rotate Mailer" on the app store.

Wow, I just posted about a similar issue. But with your exif data things are pretty clear. Never mind Apple/Microsoft rivalries, the clear issue here is BY EXIF STANDARDS THE CAMERA THINKS IT IS UPSIDE DOWN WHEN THE VOLUME BUTTONS ARE POINTED UPWARDS. That's it

The shutter button configuration and the EXIF data orientation tag are in conflict, that's an iphone software glitch, nothing else to say about it. Hope Apple recognizes the little mistakes and fixes them, it would be nice.

To be fair, I just tried using the camera, the phone oriented as to use the shutter button with the left thumb instead of with the right index finger and that's all that is to it. Problem solved. Not the typical camera button configuration meme but equally functional.

The EXIF standard for the iPhone predated by quite a while, the software tweak that allowed the volume + button to click the camera shutter.

Remember the TUAW article :

Camera+ pulled from App Store for 'volume button as camera shutter' workaround

by Chris RawsonAug 12th 2010 at 3:00AM

The tweak came in after that.

So, they leave it the way it is ( with the unintended consequence of annoying folks who will not take any of the simple steps to deal with EXIF data)

OR

Placate these vocal people, and, in so doing, enrage the millions of camera users who had the iPhone camera in use before that + button tweak was introduced.

There is absolutely no EXIF problem for users of Apple or Adobe image software. There is a problem with any software that is oblivious to EXIF metadata.

Complain to the makers of EXIF oblivious software.

...which is by far the bigger lot. In Apple land things might be like that, but in most of the world people use pc based software. I don't think it would be too hard to solve this for them too, it just seems like apple is throwing a tantrum at those who dont use their whole line of products. But hey, it's a free world.

AdjuvantJohn wrote:

OR

Placate these vocal people, and, in so doing, enrage the millions of camera users who had the iPhone camera in use before that + button tweak was introduced.

Let me get this straight...

Are you implying that if Apple 'fix' the 'problem' as suggested by us 'vocal people' that 'millions' of apple users will see their photos and videos upside down...?

btw, you keep ignoring the nugget of a fact that EXIF does NOT exist for video.

Nice to hear from you again old friend....here we go again on yet another thread about this one...

mfarqwa wrote:

SNIP

Are you implying that if Apple 'fix' the 'problem' as suggested by us 'vocal people' that 'millions' of apple users will see their photos and videos upside down...?

Can you imagine any software fix to do what you want would not "break" the EXIF handling of still photos for them?

| btw, you keep ignoring the nugget of a fact that EXIF does NOT exist for video.

The functionality of EXIF metadata certainly exists and is happily taken care of by Apple OS developers using Apple's QTKit that was provided to handle all of this. Developers such as the Mac version of VLC Media player and the developers of the Mac version of the Plex Media Server who choose to ignore the tools Apple provided for them, indeed see exactly the same "upside down" image problems developers see with EXIF oblivious software.

Hold any Canon, Nikon, or Sony camera upside down and then start pestering their support web sites about upside down pictures and videos.

AdjuvantJohn wrote:

Nice to hear from you again old friend....here we go again on yet another thread about this one...

That's because it hasn't been fixed yet.

AdjuvantJohn wrote:

Can you imagine any software fix to do what you want would not "break" the EXIF handling of still photos for them?

??? What? Is it impossible to tweak the code to rotate the camera 180 degrees, then tell the exif data to show the proper number (as in my exif example above)?

AdjuvantJohn wrote:

The functionality of EXIF metadata certainly exists and is happily taken care of by Apple OS developers using Apple's QTKit that was provided to handle all of this. Developers such as the Mac version of VLC Media player and the developers of the Mac version of the Plex Media Server who choose to ignore the tools Apple provided for them, indeed see exactly the same "upside down" image problems developers see with EXIF oblivious software.

Hold any Canon, Nikon, or Sony camera upside down and then start pestering their support web sites about upside down pictures and videos.

I don't think you're following what is being discussed.

EXIF data does NOT exist for video full stop!! (according to the EXIF Standard as I posted above. Go and read it for yourself!! I might have posted the wiki entry stating this in another thread so here it is again:)

Some digital cameras can also capture video. The Exif standard has no provision for video files.

(taken from Section 5. Problems, via wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif#Problems)

If apple have created their own version of EXIF for VIDEO, and now are asking us to hold the camera upside down, then YES they can change THEIR software to accomodate this new position for the 80% (according to Leo LaPorte) of people who don't use apple computers.

As for your example of holding Canon etc cameras upside down... why would I complain about taking an upside down picture if I intentionally held it upside down??? What exactly was your point there???

The 2nd half of your post, after re-reading it a few times sounds like you've done a 180 and are now agreeing with us??? I'm now confused.