iTunes Match Bitrate discrepancies...

Jason Turner3 wrote:

Today, I checked both libraries and noticed what I consider to be a big misrepresentation to the MATCH service, which should be well documented in a FAQ. It replaced my ripped CD's that were 320k with Matched 256k AAC in iCloud and my devices syncwith those files and NOT the original versions that were uploaded! It kept the original 320k files in the computer's iTunes Library that it was originally stored on but when I would add another computer/device, all of those tracks are now 256 - even the uploaded tracks. This is after I'm paying for the most amount of storage iCloud allows, thinking it would used for these tracks.

First, your iCloud storage has nothing to do with iTunes Match. iTM is based on number of tracks, not GBs you have. The two storage spaces are completely seperate.

Secondly, what you're seeing is exactly how iTunes Match works as detailed on Apple's marketing page <http://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-match/>.Read the "How iTunes Match Works" section.

iTM does not upload every single track in your iTunes library, it tries to match as many of your non-store-purchased tracks as possible to tracks in the iTunes Store. Those tracks that can not be matched to a corrosponding iTunes Store track are uploaded. So you will have more "matched" than "uploaded" tracks. What did you think the word "match" means in relation to this service?

You can see the status of each file by turning on the iCloud Status column in the iTunes browser. Pull down View > View Options, select "icloud status" and click OK.

You need to do some more research on what match does. As Michael says, the storage is totally separate from iCloud storage. Any extra storage you purchased for iCloud is used for documents etc, not match music.

Match does not convert your music down to 2356kbps, but if it matches the tracks then it uses the iTunes store version, which is at 256kbps, as clearly stated by Apple. Tracks which it can't match are uploaded and these will still be your riginal files at 320kbps.

From what you say, match seems to be working just fine, and exactly how I would expect it to.

The 5 gb iCloud storage is separate and apart from Match. What you have with Match is the ability to have up to 25,000 songs, either matched or uploaded (itunes purchased tracks don't count towards your limit). Reading through all the support documents. There is a lot of information you may not have discovered yet that could prove helpful to you. This link gives you a list of the various Apple iTunes Match Support Documents.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3619849

Jason Turner3 wrote:

Since Match is a service within iCloud, it makes sense that files not matched will be stored and used against your storage quota.

As has been pointed out, this is an incorrect assumption. iTunes Match simply does not use your 5 GBs of iCloud storage. At all.

Jason Turner3 wrote:

Additionally, nowhere does it mention that it will "CONVERT" higher-bitrate files to a lower bitrate if it is or isn't matched. Match isn't just a matching service, it is service which syncs your music/media library to multiple devices.

You might find this KB page helpful <http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4914> (you might need to hit reload). In particular, this bit:

Unmatched content will be uploaded as is; upload time varies depending on the amounts uploaded and local network speeds.

So unless you're music files are ALAC files, any uploaded files are uploaded as-is. Meaning your custom bit-rate is preserved. But all "matched" files will be downloaded to iDevices as 256 Kbps DRM files from the iTunes Store. Not your original files, since they were "matched" not "uploaded."

You might find it helpful to turn on the iCloud Status column in the iTunes browser so you can see which files are "purchased," "matched" and "uploaded." Pull down View > View Options and click "icloud status" and click OK to add the column.

So unless you're music files are ALAC files, any uploaded files are uploaded as-is. Meaning your custom bit-rate is preserved.

Sorry to disagree with you Michael, but that's not correct according to Apple. I believe only certain AACs and MP3s get uploaded as-is. It appears that with mobile devices as their main target, they are interested in keeping file size down - that despite the oft-quoted 200Mb per file limit (sure it may be 200Mb, but before most of those big files ever get uploaded, they get transcoded).

From the support document "how to subscribe to iTunes Match."

"Songs encoded in ALAC, WAV, or AIFF will be transcoded to a separate temporary AAC 256 kbps file locally, prior to uploading to iCloud. The original files will remain untouched."

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4914

Main thing is, while Apple could put out quite a bit more information about Match, they have put out a lot more than many people are aware of. It does take a little more digging than it should.

Edit: I just realized we're quoting the same document, which does suggest Apple needs to do a little editing for clarification. In situations like this, I tend to believe the section that provides the most detail, so I'm sticking to my story! ;-)

Message was edited by: JiminMissouri

I just did a quick test - 320kps MP3 (constant) song uploaded to iTunes - it's an OOP Hawaiian LP rip, so I knew it would upload. Deleted local / downloaded the uploaded file and then compared the two in the excellent "Mediainfo" tool:

- It's still MP3, and still 320kps

- The writing library and encoding settings are identical (LAME 3.99b, in this case)

- The tags are slightly different, mainly the "comment" field is missng on the uploaded file.

- The filename is slightly different (dropped the "A01" I had at the beginning and changed it to "01" to match the track number).

- The MD5 sums and file sizes are slightly different.

From what I can gather, the track itself is exactly the same but the tags have been altered slightly. Hope this helps.

That seems consistent with what Apple's support documents state. It's an MP3, and as far as I know the only restriction on tha format would be too low a bitrate - that and if you actually came up with an MP3 over 200 Mb.

Did a second test - same song, this time encoded as 320kps AAC. Btw, it's 48khz which I didn't mention before (vinyl rip / needle drop). Uploaded again, same trick to download it back, and looked them over again.

Pretty much the same thing as I saw with the MP3 comparison, with one noticable difference - my Apple ID was added to the metadata of the uploaded file. Now we know that this occurs with Matched tracks / iTunes purchased tracks which makes sense. But that they are doing this with uploaded tracks is a little strange, to say the least. I guess the whole "we own your song" definitely applies with uploads. 😮

Btw, that 48khz uploaded file does play A-OK in iCloud within iTunes. No idea if it plays on an iTM iOS device, however.

Still consistent with the support docs. Yes, it would be interesting to see what happens to iOS playback as one goes past the upper limit Apple has set for match and its own transcodes. My guess is if you go past it, some people start having trouble with playback (which of course would be dependant on their own connection speed), so if it's your own track, Apple's kind of off the hook.

JiminMissouri wrote:

"Songs encoded in ALAC, WAV, or AIFF will be transcoded to a separate temporary AAC 256 kbps file locally, prior to uploading to iCloud. The original files will remain untouched."

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4914

Very, true. My mistake.

Jason Turner3 wrote:

Yes, I get that Match storage isn't used for tracks that are matched and already available on iTunes. But I thought the purpose of making Match part of iCloud was to use the storage for tracks that are uploaded and that only those tracks would be used against your storage quota.

You may have thought that, but it isn't.

As previously stated, the only limit is the 25,000 songs not purchased from iTunes. iCloud storage is nothing to do with it.

Jason Turner3 wrote:

I've read that 320k or higher bitrate files that are uploaded would be preserved and was disappointed that it wasn't. This was from other blogs and reviews I read.

Are you absolutely sure that they aren't preserved? Roebeets examples (and my experience) shows that uploaded files are preserved. If the file is matched then it will obviously be at 256kbps, but uploads are different.

If your uploads are being converted then perhaps it is because match doesn't think that they will play on iOS devices. I have in the past had trouble with some 320kbps MP3's that haven't played on my touch. Maybe Match is converting them because it doesn't think that they will play as they are?

That is just speculation though.

Can you check and confirm that the files you are finding at 256kbps have a status of "uploaded", rather than "matched". If so then there may be something more complicated going on here.

KeithJenner, I'm not sure the OP is still monitoring this thread. However, this may be splitting hairs, but you said,

Roebeets examples (and my experience) shows that uploaded files are preserved. If the file is matched then it will obviously be at 256kbps, but uploads are different.

That's not what Robeet's examples showed. What he showed was that so long as the file is an MP3 or an AAC that meets the minimum requirements (and is under 200 MB) then it will upload as-is. This is important, because he successfully uploaded MP3 and AAC at a bitrate higher than Apple's self-imposed limit an for people who want to choose one of those formats, that's good news.

But there's a big caveat here.

He did not, far as I know, take the next step, which would be to try other file types that according to Apple, are transcoded into a temp AAC file. The language they use doesn't specifically say that the temp file is what get's uploaded, just that the original file is untouched, but for the moment I'm inclinded to believe that's what it's used for.

If this is the case, people who think they are uploading ALAC, WAV, or AIFF files and getting the benefit of a lossless format, are really getting a 256 AAC.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4914

Songs encoded in ALAC, WAV, or AIFF will be transcoded to a separate temporary AAC 256 kbps file locally, prior to uploading to iCloud. The original files will remain untouched.

You didn't mention any specifics of what you've learned through your own work with Match, so if your experience involves uploading ALAC, WAV or AIFF files, and found they do go up fine, then you've discovered that Apple's support doc is incorrect (which certainly is possible) and we should point that out to Apple.

Barring evidence to the contrary though, the reason I bring this up whenever the subject arises is that the people most concerned about preserving their file formats are also the ones most likely to be using lossless formats: thus they're the ones who will be most likely to post in the forum that they're very unhappy because their files are getting replaced. It's often not clear what file formats they're talking about: they don't always say, we don't always ask.

Part of the confusion I think can be attributed to what little Apple has said about the entire process and to a bit of poor writing on their part as well. For instance, in the support doc I referenced, early on they state that songs matched will be uploaded as-is and in the next line, they give us the 200 Mb limit. A reader might well just stop there, and if they do, they'd have good reason to believe that a 150Mb ALAC file will get uploaded just fine. True, the line about transcoding isn't much farther down, but it does seem to conflict with the "as-is" text.

But if you think about what Apple is doing here, it makes sense that they'd want to keep file sizes down, and one of the ways they've chosen to do that is to keep lossless formats out of the cloud. Perhaps some people can get a 150Mb file to stream/download fine to their iPhone, but for others without a lot of buffering, Apple's probably concerned that it's going to choke.

Still, if one wants to get the best file they can, robeet's shown that with MP3 and AAC files, a user can go past Apple's self-imposed upper limit. Problem is, that's only good for uploaded files and as we've all discussed, we don't have the ability to pick and choose whet gets uploaded.

JiminMissouri wrote:

But there's a big caveat here.

He did not, far as I know, take the next step, which would be to try other file types that according to Apple, are transcoded into a temp AAC file. The language they use doesn't specifically say that the temp file is what get's uploaded, just that the original file is untouched, but for the moment I'm inclinded to believe that's what it's used for.

If this is the case, people who think they are uploading ALAC, WAV, or AIFF files and getting the benefit of a lossless format, are really getting a 256 AAC.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4914

Songs encoded in ALAC, WAV, or AIFF will be transcoded to a separate temporary AAC 256 kbps file locally, prior to uploading to iCloud. The original files will remain untouched.

I can confirm this is exactly what happens with ALAC files. I've got about 4,000 tracks of live shows that are all in ALAC and they were all transcoded to 256 Kbps AAC and uploaded. I've even got a few that were over 200 MB, and transcoding them made them small enough to upload.