US TAX ID - The Big Dilemma

So for the piddly amount of return on the massive amount of work:

You set your price not Apple

1. Start an entirely irrelevant Tax Return in a foreign country*

Go to work for New York Fire Department, you get paid, you get taxed - get back to Oz in the middle of a tax year.. you have to declare your income "from all sources" on your Au tax return... BUT you dont get taxed on it again....

2. Be taxed in the hope of getting it back later

DO you have an ABN?.. any body can apply - but you declare nothing if you earn nothing... earn $1 and you need to declare it! and you every year file an ABN related tax entry.

Putting a book (s) in the store is hoping it sells well and earns you money- its not an obligation.

3. Claim Apple's cut as a cost from the gross amount taxed.

Dont know aussie rules, but years ago, I could claim "cost of sales" on anything related to promoting and making sales. Its tax deductable. I am sure it applies in every country.

4. Pay for a foreign tax expert and lawyer to work this all out for you

Pay an Aussie tax expert if you are in aussie - which is where you pay your tax, he/she/they will work out overseas earning/tax and make the adjustments. You dont pay twice.

5. Pay tax again in Australia

You dont pay twice.
Whatever tax you are due to pay in your normal employmeny needs to be paid.

if - for example you are a carpenter and along comes a mate just bought a shop and want some new fixtures and fittings and pays you $5ooo..... do you declare it or hope you dont get caught.... cos your mate will claim it back as an expence to offset his tax bill!

If you create a new book about Flappy Birds and it earns you $50,000 are you worried about 20% tax? You only pay it - if you made it.

* Apple has the gall to charge us GST and local taxes here in Australia to justify its higher "costs", then tells the Australian Tax Office that the transaction did not take place here in Australia, but in Singapore, therefore Apple should not pay Australian tax.

Apple Australia is a different branch of Apple to the USA branches - so like any Aussie business from whom you buy... the AU law says you pay 10% GST - not Apple.

Item shipped into AU incur import tax, not Apples fault.. AU law.

How Apple runs its tax obligations with AU - I have no knowledge, but Google and others are the same - they have smart accountants to sort it out.........

So........

Everything is quite simple really, before you join anything you get to know the rules, requirments and obligations.
Apple does not send out "Press Gangs" to leap on the unwary and make them buy products from Apple or download free software and make books in the hope you will will make millions ( less 30% ), it your choice and yours alone.

What you dont like, dont get involved with....

BTWApple is not paying tax in The States on what it is earning.

But asking us to even when we have not earnt the money there.

Thats something different and out of "our" control.

A few years ago I was in the USA and a guy fell of the Empire State Building... as he was falling people in the offices on each passing floor could him smiling and his lips moving as he passed the fifth floor, a lip reader was asked if she could see what he was saying that he looked relaxed.....

She said... " so far, so good.... the time to worry is just before the ground floor....."

Worry about what you have to and let Apple do its own stuff - which you have to admit the government allow o rthe would not be alowed to trade in OZ.

Vinny

You are making the massive assumption that the money is being earnt in the States when the Apple Stores are everywhere. Why not a German, UK, Italian, Hong Kong tax file number?

And I may be setting my own price but I am under no misapprehension that this is a gold mine. Far from it. Any money being made is by all the middle men. Principally Apple.

And also I am not objecting to any of the other points other than the compulsion to have a US TFN and have to claim back my tax in US$ from the Internal Revenue.

Every single cut diminishes the already inadequate returns.

It is a lottery that pays out badly with you gambling your labor and intellectual effort and not even knowing how much the deductions are, of which there are many.

In Australia back in The Depression there used to be what was called the Hungry Mile along the wharves. Men used to line up in the desperate hope that they would get picked for a job, and once picked that they might, eventually, get paid.

The Hungry Mile has been put On-line so you don't even see the other starving faces and you live with the illusion that it is only you that's doing it tough.

At least The Hunger Games was a televised event. Everybody can see what happens to the losers.

Peter

I use the USA simply because of the EIN requirement, as I said, I am no taxation expert.

If you need specific information related to yourself,...contact Apple AU and ask for an explanation.

Apple insist on the EIN US tax file number for a reason....ie to cover their side of tbd tax situation.

A number of US based print on demand ( tee shirts, mugs caps etc, ). which allow infividuals to open "stores" to sell their designs on the site owners products...have sent out notices that the W8-BEN is no lo ger being accepted as a tax exemption abd tbst tax at the appropriate rate may be deducted from sales commissions. Again, the users are worldwide.

You again mention "inadequate" returns.... its you who sets the selling price....if you want more....reset tbe price higher.

You do not claim back any taxes taken out by Apple, you simply state the amount taken on your tax return and its sorted by the tax offices. Which is not really different to declaring the income and having tax added to your bill. aif you did that. you will then become embroiled in gathering the focumentation.

You also miss out a nice little earner...logically, if you use tools to enable your work, they can be tax deductable....so claim the expenses of buying a suitable Apple computer and its accessories.

Hey there, I didn't need an american tax number for iBooks publishing - I am a UK resident. I don't actually know why, or whether it work again for others, but when I got to the page where it asked me for the US tax number I cancelled the request and shut down Safari. When I next went in to investigate what I needed it clicked straight through to a page where I could enter UK bank details, giving me entirely different options to before. So - it can be done, just not sure how!

You do not say if you are opening a Free Book account or a Paid Book account. You do not need ( or did not when I opened it) an EIN for a free book... no payments involved!

For a Paid Book account, - Apple require a US tax file number - EIN.
To my understanding, you have have simply ignored a required entry and moved on.

In the contract process Apple include the requirements specific to UK, Canada and Australia. i.e. Australians are required to open and submit, an ABN - Australian Business Number - its required by the Aussie government for tax purposes.

A UK applicant, will also need an IBAN number from their bank. Its an anti money laundering agreement which the US as with various other countries.

Unless Apple and the US, IRS have changed the rules... which I doubt - Apple need your tax information in order to deal with the tax due on your sales receipts and their payments to a bank outside the US.

Have you submitted the paid book contract application? Until you do - we will not know if your way - without an EIN is valid.

This is an extract from the paid book account contract agreement ...... you need to read the whole relevant sections...

Apple will not remit those amounts to Publisher, but will hold those

amounts in trust for Publisher, until such time as Publisher has provided Apple

with the required tax documentation. Upon receipt of all required tax documents

from Publisher, Apple will remit to Publisher any amounts held in trust by Apple

for Publisher, without interest, under this Section 5(j) in accordance with the

terms of the Agreement.

Hi Vinnyvg,

it is is a paid account I opened and I entered my IBAN number. Fingers crossed someone wants to buy my book now 🙂

liz

Hi Liz,

Just had an email from Apple... which everybody with a free books account may have also.... its about upgrading to a Paid book account among other things... an extract:-

"To apply as a company, an organization, or a U.S. individual, you must also provide a U.S. Tax ID (for example, a Social Security Number for individuals or an EIN for businesses) on the Paid Books Agreement Information page. After submitting the request form, you will be able to download the Paid Books Agreement, but you can’t accept the agreement until your U.S. Tax ID has been verified."

The above does not say that none USA applicants need the EIN Tax file number. I have other account with two "Print on demand" sites... my pictures on Mugs caps etc,. and both have in the past few months required me ( et al ) to upgrade W8-BEN numbers to EIN numbers... so it could be that the above from Apple is confusing for we none US applicants!

My understanding was because we are none US, the no social security number - so the only option was the "business" EIN - which stands fro Employer Identification Number.

UK residents DO NOT need an EIN - confirmed by the Apple Legal team. See below. Hope this helps everyone! All i needed was my IBAN...

Dear Team,

I'm not sure how, but when setting up my tax details on iTunes Connect i was faced with a page on which to enter my UK tax details. At the time i did not have an EIN, but now that i do i can't enter it. Please can this be entered onto my account for me?

Liz

Hi,

You do not need an EIN. Your contract is in effect, and you are ready to upload and sell books.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.