Recent firmware update prevents Snow Leopard downgrade?

Question

Recent firmware update prevents Snow Leopard downgrade?

I need Snow Leopard for my work, and will continue to need it for at least a year. Apple online chat was unable to confirm whether refurbs currently in the pipe would ship with SL or Lion, regardless of age. They basically indicated that my chances were about 50/50.

After reading user accounts of how to downgrade from Lion to Snow Leopard, I went ahead and purchased a refurb February 2011 15" 2.2GHz MacBook Pro from the Apple store. Sure enough, when the machine arrived, it was loaded with Lion.

I ran Software Update to make the OS current, backed it up via Time Machine, and then proceeded with the re-format/SL installation process. However, Snow Leopard would not install using any of the commonly described methods, and the symptoms were consistent with trying to load it onto a post-July 2011 machine.

After a couple of tries, I got a 'phone support agent on the line, who advised that when I ran Software Update, it loaded a recent firmware update that locks the machine down. He was evasive at first, but eventually confirmed that the machine was downgradeable when I received it, but was now effectively a Post-Lion machine, and could no longer be returned to it's as-shipped condition. He indicated that my only option was to return the machine for a refund.

I have a local independent repair facility looking into the situation at the moment, but they are pessimistic.

I was unable to find out when Apple first issued the new firmware load via Software Update, but I understand that people were still successfully downgrading to Snow Leopard as recently as December, 2011.

Assuming that the information I received from Apple is correct, they have closed the door on further Snow Leopard downgrades, at least on the MacBook Pro. Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

MacBook Pro

Posted on Feb 1, 2012 7:03 AM

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Answer 1

wjosten

Level 10

95,345 points

Feb 1, 2012 7:35 AM in response to steve_rolfeca

steve_rolfeca wrote:

Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Sorry, but it's true. You won't be able to install SL on that computer. If SL is what you want, return it and try again.

You do realize that to install SL, you need the original Install Disks that shipped with your specific model, correct?

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Answer 2

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 1, 2012 7:37 AM in response to steve_rolfeca

Apple is getting a lot of calls from people wanting to downgrade to Snow Leopard for several reasons, like that Lion is terrible and/or they need to run software that hasn't been updated or is avaialble on Lion.

Firmware updates apply to the machine itself, so it if's running Snow Leopard it gets the same firmware updates as a Lion machine.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that a change is preventing you from installing Snow Leopard on a compatible machine, however like to explore the possibility that you've used the wrong disk to do so.

You can't use the 10.6.3 white disk to install Snow Leopard. Early 2011 machines that came with Snow Leopard came with their own disks and hardware drivers that are not present on the 10.6.3 white disks.

Since your Mac is Snow Leopard capable, try calling Apple again and just say you need replacement Snow Leopard disks for your Early 2011 Mac.

If that isn't a option, you migh want to explore the "Procedure" of combining 10.6.3 with the 10.6.8 Combo Update, which when burned to disk, produces a bootable disk to install 10.6

Explore the links and info on this old thread written for the Early 2011-Mid 2011 period

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3264421?start=0&tstart=0

Another option is to get into contact with another Mac user who bought a Early 2011 Snow Leopard Mac of your exact make and model, get a copy of their disk.

http://www.walterjessen.com/make-a-bootable-backup-snow-leopard-install-disc/

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Answer 3

wjosten

Level 10

95,345 points

Feb 1, 2012 7:44 AM in response to ds store

FYI:

The Firmware update CHANGES the Boot ROM version...no way SL is installing on that computer.

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Answer 4

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 1, 2012 8:02 AM in response to wjosten

wjosten wrote:

FYI:

The Firmware update CHANGES the Boot ROM version...no way SL is installing on that computer.

Those on Early 2011 10.7.2 Mac's are still able to install 10.6 into a partition for a dual boot set-up, how is this possible if what you say is true?

You can see the firmware versions are based upon the machine.

https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1237

It's not like Apple is suddenly going to deny those many users who's machines came with a 10.6.8 disk the ability to boot from it, wipe the drive and install 10.6.

I've installed Lion on my 15" and reverted all the way back to 10.5 (iLife), then upgraded to 10.6, because the machine came with 10.5 originally.

Apple understands people and buisnesses upgrade, realise their software isn't compatible and need to revert back.

If Apple did what you say, then these boards would be filled with many posts of outrage.

But this is only one post from one person, who likely didn't go about reverting correctly, used the wrong disk or information.

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Answer 5

wjosten

Level 10

95,345 points

Feb 1, 2012 8:08 AM in response to ds store

Only if they didn't install the Firmware update.

You're also missing one important fact: the OP's computer shipped with Lion, the Firmware was updated prior to the OP's attempt to install SL. Apple isn't denying the OP anything. The OP purchased a computer with Lion installed.

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Answer 6

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 1, 2012 8:11 AM in response to wjosten

wjosten wrote:

Only if they didn't install the Firmware update.

I don't see any supporting arguments for your claim.

The firmware is the same for 10.6 or 10.7, it's applied to the machine.

Apple has never disallowed reverting to a earlier OS X version provided that machine came with that version when it was originally released.

So unless you can backup your claims, your at this point just trolling and spreading misinformation.

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Answer 7

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 1, 2012 8:30 AM in response to wjosten

wjosten wrote:

You're also missing one important fact: the OP's computer shipped with Lion, the Firmware was updated prior to the OP's attempt to install SL. Apple isn't denying the OP anything. The OP purchased a computer with Lion installed.

You still haven't backed up your claim.

Early 2011 Mac's that came with Lion can be reverted to Snow Leopard because that's the OS version the machine originally shipped with. Lion was a mid product cycle upgrade, so those Early 2011 machines can swing either way.

The firmware updates are the same and applied to the machine itsefl, if it's running 10.6 or 10.7.

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Answer 8

Feb 1, 2012 1:18 PM in response to ds store

I'm feeling a little embarrassed about this, but not a lot.

I am typing this from my MBP, running under Snow Leopard 10.60.8.

The trick was that a local dealer had access to a higher access tier, and the Apple support engineer they talked to was able to confirm that the problem wasn't firmware- it was the SL version. The shop simply grabbed some grey install disks, and after a few tries, were able to install 10.6.7.

The Apple engineer even provided them with the correct part numbers for the install disks for my machine, and suggested I call Apple support, and order a set of replacement disks.

So why aren't I simply apologizing to Apple for getting upset about nothing, and getting on with life?

Because contrary to what the Apple engineer said, Apple support will not mail me the installation disks. Not for free, not even if I pay for them. The problem is not technical, it's administrative. Apparently, Apple stopped the assembly line part-way through the early 2011 run, and started shipping the later machines with Lion. Since my serial number belongs to that group, they will not provide SL disks for it, even though there's no difference in the hardware specification of my laptop, and a copy of Snow Leopard from those disks is working just fine.

I have been told that if I want to keep a set of DVD's on hand, I will have to fend for myself, and go looking for used disks on Craigslist or eBay.

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Answer 9

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 2, 2012 7:52 AM in response to steve_rolfeca

steve_rolfeca wrote:

Since my serial number belongs to that group, they will not provide SL disks for it, even though there's no difference in the hardware specification of my laptop, and a copy of Snow Leopard from those disks is working just fine.

Well glad to hear your happy on Snow Leopard. 🙂

I have been told that if I want to keep a set of DVD's on hand, I will have to fend for myself, and go looking for used disks on Craigslist or eBay.

Just make copies and keep them in a safe location, also make 10.6 thumb drive less your Superdrive fails.

http://www.walterjessen.com/make-a-bootable-backup-snow-leopard-install-disc/

http://www.maciverse.com/install-os-x-snow-leopard-from-usb-flash-drive.html

Also make option key bootable clones.

http://www.bombich.com/

I've got several copies of my 10.6.7 disks and several clones. even have a 15" with 10.6.3 disks and extra copies of that too.

My Early 2011 17" is tweaked out, fast and furious. I won't be (*knock on wood) be entering a Apple Store for long long time.

I would if Apple sold a Classic iPod with 100GB SSD and no iOS.

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Answer 10

Shootist007

Level 6

16,709 points

Feb 2, 2012 7:59 AM in response to steve_rolfeca

I must update this thread.

I downloaded a copy of 10.6.7, a DMG file. Burned it to a USB thumb drive and installed it on another USB hard drive. Then repartitioned my secondary internal drive and used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone from the external USB drive to the other partition on the secondary drive. Snow Leopard is up and running, and updated, on a Late 2011, made in October 2011, 15" MBP that came with Lion and has had all updates applied, even 10.7.3.

So my Assumption that the firmware is locking out the insallation of older OSs is complete wrong. Before I was trying to use an older retail copy of SL that would not support the newer hardware.

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Answer 11

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 2, 2012 8:31 AM in response to Shootist007

Shootist007 wrote:

So my assumption that the firmware is locking out the insallation of older OSs is complete wrong. Before I was trying to use an older retail copy of SL that would not support the newer hardware.

Hardware drivers need to be on the disk for that model of machine.

10.6.3 white disks have the hardware drivers for all Intel machines cable of booting 10.6 prior to 10.6.3's disk release.

Mac's released after the 10.6.3 disk release come with their own 10.6.4+ disks and hardware drivers.

Shootist007 wrote:

I downloaded a copy of 10.6.7, a DMG file. Burned it to a USB thumb drive and installed it on another USB hard drive. Then repartitioned my secondary internal drive and used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone from the external USB drive to the other partition on the secondary drive. Snow Leopard is up and running, and updated, on a Late 2011, made in October 2011, 15" MBP that came with Lion and has had all updates applied, even 10.7.3.

Very interesting. You likely can't boot from the USB as it might not have the hardware drivers for your Late 2011.

Have you option booted several times in a row from the SL partition? Still works?

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Answer 12

Shootist007

Level 6

16,709 points

Feb 2, 2012 2:19 PM in response to ds store

Typing this from Snow Leopard. Just got home from work, pushed the button hit the Option key, selected Snow Leopard HD, wala.

I'm even concidering wiping Lion off this box and using SL until I can't anymore. Even on a 5400RPM drive SL loads programs faster then Lion on SSD

ds store wrote:

Shootist007 wrote:

So my assumption that the firmware is locking out the insallation of older OSs is complete wrong. Before I was trying to use an older retail copy of SL that would not support the newer hardware.

Hardware drivers need to be on the disk for that model of machine.

10.6.3 white disks have the hardware drivers for all Intel machines cable of booting 10.6 prior to 10.6.3's disk release.

Mac's released after the 10.6.3 disk release come with their own 10.6.4+ disks and hardware drivers.

Shootist007 wrote:

I downloaded a copy of 10.6.7, a DMG file. Burned it to a USB thumb drive and installed it on another USB hard drive. Then repartitioned my secondary internal drive and used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone from the external USB drive to the other partition on the secondary drive. Snow Leopard is up and running, and updated, on a Late 2011, made in October 2011, 15" MBP that came with Lion and has had all updates applied, even 10.7.3.

Very interesting. You likely can't boot from the USB as it might not have the hardware drivers for your Late 2011.

Have you option booted several times in a row from the SL partition? Still works?

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Answer 13

ds store

Level 7

30,825 points

Feb 2, 2012 4:19 PM in response to Shootist007

Shootist007 wrote:

Typing this from Snow Leopard. Just got home from work, pushed the button hit the Option key, selected Snow Leopard HD, wala.

Cool. 🙂

I'm even concidering wiping Lion off this box and using SL until I can't anymore. Even on a 5400RPM drive SL loads programs faster then Lion on SSD

Well usually programs are small, the time difference between a 5,400 RPM and a SSD are so slight with small files it doesn't seem to make much difference in reality.

It's when you transfer large files SSD to SSD on a fast connection all the time then they come in handy.

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