I want my "save as" back!

Don, not only are there complaints about Versions and Save-As that have over 66,000 views, others with 16,000 views etc, those that don't want the current paradigm are simply asking for it to be optional.

There are many options in Mac OSX allowing for the majority to have what they want and the minority to have what they want. Therefore just because one side or the other will be in the minority does not make it a reason to ignore their concerns. When Apple have made choices to change features like removing the 3.5 inch drives the minority still had a choice to buy an external drive.

The issue here is choices. In Lion you can use a function where all your last windows reopen on an application when you open it again. Or you can turn that function off in the preferences.

What Kappy and other seem to misunderstand is that thousands of people want this choice with Versions and Save-As. That is because in this situation they got what they wanted.

Market research has shown that for every person who actively complains about a problem or search for a solution there are many who are silent. My friend is IT support in an all Mac company and EVERYONE working there has an issue with the new paradigm. Yet he deals with that at work, finding work arounds, he does not post here. When they visit clients and do presentations their clients either laugh that they are using Lion, because they have reverted back to SL or ask how they managed to tame it. He gets calls from the IT support people of their clients asking for help in this issue. It is widespread. In his company and with ALL their Mac using clients, if you took a poll then EVERYONE has an issue with the new system. That is a 100% majority, not a minority, as Kappy likes to claim without evidence.

Steve

Tom in London wrote:

The fact that it isn't better doesn't seem to have crossed their minds.

While you are asking others, Tom, could you please provide figures, links or whatever to backup this 'fact' as well.

fact |fakt|noun a thing that is indisputably the case:

Thanks

Pete

Steve Maximus wrote:

What Kappy and other seem to misunderstand is that thousands of people want this choice with Versions and Save-As.

And Millions may not.

Market research has shown that for every person who actively complains about a problem or search for a solution there are many who are silent.

Market Research can show whatever figures it wishes to.

It is widespread. In his company and with ALL their Mac using clients, if you took a poll then EVERYONE has an issue with the new system. That is a 100% majority, not a minority, as Kappy likes to claim without evidence.

And your evidence other than telling us without also producing any figures? Until every Mac user in the world can be polled then people here should stop throwing around ridiculous percentages they cannot back up. All Mac users I know love Lion. So it has a 100% success rate on that basis. Right?

Pete

Peter,

I never said that Lion is fully loved or hated. If you read carefully, even if millions love it and thousands don't, there is still the possibility to let those thousands have what they want. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

I run Lion and I have SL iWorks and that gives me what I want without taking away what you want. I don't force you to run on SL. I don't force you to have no Versions and to have to use Save-As.

Regardless of the polling, the number of page views here or on other forums, the anecdotal evidence, the fact is that some people want to have Save-As. There is the possibility to incorporate an OPTION in Lion for those that want their system different to others.

No one that I have seen here has asked for more than a choice. No one who wants Save-As back have said that Duplicate must be removed or Versions has to be disabled for everyone. People want choice.

You feel that you should have your system the way you want it, and I should have my system the way you want it. That is a bit mean. The fact is that both functionalities can and do co-exist with work arounds. People here are asking for both systems to work as a matter of the standard operating system.

I am not sure why you and others feel the need to silence those here wanting choice. If Versions was made optional and Save-As returned it would have zero affect on your system, yet you still want to configure mine. Why?

This forum is for those that want something different to the way it is. They may be a minority. They may be a majority, that is irrelevant. The actual coding to give these thousands of people choice is minimal. Why have you opposed it?

Why are you fighting against people having choice?

Steve.

Steve Maximus wrote:

Why are you fighting against people having choice?

Steve.

I am not, I am simply saying that at present in Lion you do not have that choice and it is no good asking here. Ask Apple. Perhaps it's the future, perhaps they cannot write it into the Lion code anymore. So ask them, but please don't bandy around figures (you are not the only one) such as 100%, that is all I am saying. Sure if the choice was there, it would benifit a lot of users, but for some reason that only Apple knows of, it has not been made an option. Maybe Mountain Lion's release will give us all more of an idea if they intend intergrating it again.

Good Luck

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for clarifying that, I'm sorry I worded my response badly. I meant that in one isolated situation the majority were against the new Save-As paradigm in Lion. I was not meaning to say that this is a sample of everyone in the world, I was just trying to say that we don't know who is in the majority or the minority. Sorry to not make that clearer.

As for it not being able to be implemented in the Lion code, I have actual facts which prove it can be. I run iWorks without the Lion upgrade. The programs run exactly as they did in Snow Leopard, with Save-As and without Versions. Therefore those programs, from Apple, are able to run on Lion with the options I prefer. It is therefore 100% possible to give this choice in Lion as I currently have it, albeit by never upgrading iWorks.

Thanks for understanding that people here want choice. Nothing more. They don't want to take these new features out, they just want to be able to choose to turn them off. Like Time Machine for example. It is optional and I don't use it.

I will see what Mountain Lion has to offer. The rumors are that it is the same as Lion. I don't know I've never seen it. I do see this as Apple's "Windows Vista Moment" meaning that some users will leave Apple (a minority?) if the operating system is not changed somewhat in the near future. Whatever Apple plans it will clearly affect thousands of people.

Stve.

<rant>

Here here. I don't think I could say this enough. HERE HERE. Please return "Save As"!

Not everyone needs their hand held by Apple at every turn of the OS. The only thing this Duplicate "feature" is making me do is avoid Apple products! Don't have Save-As? I'll use Sublime Text or even Open Office (when required).

It looks like I'll be adding an extra step in my OSX install list: <replace default applications with non-apple products>

</rant>

Please please please please I need 'save as' back! This costs me too much time.

So:

Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As Return Save As !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have it, if you upgrade to Mountain Lion. Yes - someone at Apple still has their head screwed on the right way.

That's like... selling a brand new car without the driver's door or the seatbelt, and requiring you to buy it on top of the new car price. A 10.7 patch should be able to handle Save As just fine.

Here's some hacks that give you some similar functionality in Preview, at least:

http://superuser.com/questions/381928/can-i-disable-os-x-lion-autosave-and-versi ons

http://lifehacker.com/5877519/bring-back-save-as-in-mac-os-x-lion-sort-of

These two together and you get rid of the "Duplicate/Unlock" requests all the time, and you get your Command-Shift-S save back! Yeah.. a workaround for a needless "bug", but at least it got back some of my sanity.

As Tom said, it is part of Mountain Lion. But it was never part of Lion. It won't be 'patched' as Lion support will gradually be dropped. The $19.99 asking price of ML is surely worth it if your workflow has been impeded so severly.

Cheers

Pete

I'm sorry, but I'm working with Mountain Lion and there's still no 'save as', not in de Apple-programs like Pages, Preview, Numbers etc... And I use that programms a lot...

ellesismore wrote:

I'm sorry, but I'm working with Mountain Lion and there's still no 'save as', not in de Apple-programs like Pages, Preview, Numbers etc... And I use that programms a lot...

Well, you didn't expect Apple to just bring it back and admit it had made a mistake, did you? They've brought it back but hidden it. To get to "Save as", hold down your Option key whilst opening the drop-down "File" menu.

Sorry Tom, that is a pretend Save-As which acts differently, but apparently the latest Mountain Lion update allows this to be fixed. But Versions is still compulsory not optional. So they have secretly killed Save-As, pretended to bring it back, secretly sort of brought it back, but kept versions. Not cool. A totally insane way to deal with customers.

Steve Maximus wrote:

Not cool. A totally insane way to deal with customers.

I agree, but I have no illusions about Apple's way of dealing with its customers. Maybe a future iteration of the MacOS will sneak "Save as" back the way it used to be.

I'm hoping the same good sense will be brought to bear on Mission Control. I need to see all open windows individually, not stacked - the way it used to be in Snow Leopard. With Mission Control I can no longer find anything. For the way I work, MC might as well not exist. But since you can't keep common sense in the doghouse forever, I'm willing to bet that Mission Control will eventually go back to way Exposé used to work.