Difference between camera roll, photo stream, and photo library

I truly see what you are saying.

But here is what is happening on my iPad:

Any photo I take with the iPad camera, first goes into the CAMERA ROLL, then a copy also goes into my PHOTO STREAM. This creates two copies of the same photo.

I pulled a photo from a Web site. I did a hold on the photo with my stylus, and selected COPY. It only shows up in CAMERA ROLL. When I select it and try the ADD TO, I have no way to put it in my PHOTO STREAM. I can add it to any existing FOLDER or create a new one.

I Just attached my SD Card Reader attachment, and when I selected the photos for IMPORT, they all went to my PHOTO STREAM. None went to the CAMERA ROLL. Also equally confusing is that there are three import folders, all with copies of my photos imported from my SD card: IMPORTED PHOTOS & VIDEOS, LAST IMPORTED, & ALL IMPORTED.

I tried to delete these, but I've seen photos disappear sometimes (not always) from my PHOTO STREAM. When I delete from one IMPORT folder, the image is deleted from all three, if they are in them. It seems to also disappear from my CAMERA ROLL.

When I copy a photo from PHOTO STREAM to a FOLDER, existing or new, a copy is also put into my CAMERA ROLL.

When i DELETE from my PHOTO STREAM, or any FOLDER, that is the only copy of a photo that is deleted.

When I DELETE from my CAMERA ROLL, it deletes the photo from every single folder, including the PHOTO STREAM in cases where I shot a photo from my iPad and it placed a copy there after it went to CAMERA ROLL first.

There is no folder called PHOTO LIBRARY. Do I just create it? When I go to settings and look at Photos App, I see that most of the space is taken up by CAMERA ROLL, and it shows PHOTO LIBRARY, but it is always empty.

See my confusion? I would think the iPad works on the smae rules the iPhone does, but apparently not, based on following your discussion about the iPhone and I do not have one to compare the two.

I have no folder called PHOTO LIBRARY, unless that is a term used for the individual folders I create (Anything outside CAMERA ROLL & PHOTO STREAM). So I do not know how that works with the other two folders.

As a professional photographer (I make a full time living doing so) I have found the iPad a great asset, and have replaced my laptop completely. I use an Olympus PEN EPL-2, and as soon as it arrives, I will be able to download via bluetooth directly to my tablet (I'd hate to see all the extra crap and headaches this might cause me, but it will save me time for newspapers that need instant multi-media fast. Downloading is an extra step that is time consuming, and to get rid of it will be great). Back to the discussion.

However, when I load my images and it goes into PHOTO STREAM, I like that, because I can delete everything I do not want and it only gets deleted there. However, if I decide to break my work up by assignment and create FOLDERS, once I copy it from PHOTO STREAM to the new folder, a third copy (Orignal stays in PHOTO STREAM, a copy goes into the FOLDER I designate), but the iPad puts another copy in CAMERA ROLL.

Now, I can delete from PHOTO STREAM, but if I ever delete a photo from CAMERA ROLL, it gets deleted from every folder that photo was ever copied to on my iPad.

The only way I seem to get around this is when I edit a photo, and save it under a different name. That's another issue (It puts a copy, if I recall, into PHOTO STREAM only).

I would love not to have to use the CAMERA ROLL at all. Is there a way to do it? Can I delete that folder?

Thank you everyone for all your comments. I am trying to undertstnd how Apple deals with photos, and sometimes I feel they did not design this for us professionals who see a great value in using an iPhone or iPad in the normal course of our work, or part of our workflow.

George.

Any photo I take with the iPad camera, first goes into the CAMERA ROLL, then a copy also goes into my PHOTO STREAM. This creates two copies of the same photo.

Because you have Photo Stream enabled, which is a way to have the photos captured or saved by one device available on other devices with the same Apple ID and allows for transferring the photos to your computer automatically with Photo Stream enabled on your computer without having to import the photos.

If you don't need or want to use Photo Stream it is quite simple, turn it off.

I pulled a photo from a Web site. I did a hold on the photo with my stylus, and selected COPY. It only shows up in CAMERA ROLL. When I select it and try the ADD TO, I have no way to put it in my PHOTO STREAM. I can add it to any existing FOLDER or create a new one.

There is not an option to do so and there is no reason to do so since photos captured or saved by the device which are stored in the Camera Roll will be added to your Photo Stream automatically when the device is connected to an available wi-fi network.

I Just attached my SD Card Reader attachment, and when I selected the photos for IMPORT, they all went to my PHOTO STREAM. None went to the CAMERA ROLL. Also equally confusing is that there are three import folders, all with copies of my photos imported from my SD card: IMPORTED PHOTOS & VIDEOS, LAST IMPORTED, & ALL IMPORTED.

As already provided, the first is not supposed to happen and can't happen unless you are importing the photos while the iPad is connected to an available wi-fi network. I don't believe photos imported by a camera or from an SD card using the Camera Connection Kit are imported to the iPad's Camera Roll. They are imported to or stored in Imported Photos and must be placed there first before the photos are transferred to your Photo Stream.

I tried to delete these, but I've seen photos disappear sometimes (not always) from my PHOTO STREAM. When I delete from one IMPORT folder, the image is deleted from all three, if they are in them. It seems to also disappear from my CAMERA ROLL.

Photo Stream is temporary with a maximum of 1,000 photos and 30 days.

There is a primary import folder for imported photos and a recent import to view the most recent imported photos. Deleting a photo from the recent import album should not delete the original from the primary import folder.

Deleting a photo from a user created photo album does not delete the original photo stored in the Camera Roll or from wherever the original photos is stored.

When I copy a photo from PHOTO STREAM to a FOLDER, existing or new, a copy is also put into my CAMERA ROLL.

Because the Photo Stream is temporary storage with the main Photo Stream library stored on the cloud. To place a photo that is in your Photo Stream in a user created album, a local copy must be stored first as already provided. In this case in the Camera Roll.

When i DELETE from my PHOTO STREAM, or any FOLDER, that is the only copy of a photo that is deleted.

Correct since the Photo Stream is completely separate from the Camera Roll and from your Import folder. As already provided, all photos in a user created album or folder are not duplicates as in taking up double the storage capacity. The photos in a user created album or folder include a pointer to the original photo stored in the Camera Roll. You can remove the copy in a user created album or folder without affecting the original stored in the Camera Roll, but if you delete the original stored in the Camera Roll all copies or pointers to the original will be removed as well.

When I DELETE from my CAMERA ROLL, it deletes the photo from every single folder, including the PHOTO STREAM in cases where I shot a photo from my iPad and it placed a copy there after it went to CAMERA ROLL first.

The first part is correct as already provided, but once a photo is in your Camera Roll and transferred to your Photo Stream, deleting the photo from your Camera Roll does not or should not touch the photo in your Photo Stream and vice-versa.

There is no folder called PHOTO LIBRARY. Do I just create it? When I go to settings and look at Photos App, I see that most of the space is taken up by CAMERA ROLL, and it shows PHOTO LIBRARY, but it is always empty.

As provided in my previous post, the Photo Library is for photos that were transferred from your computer via the iTunes sync process. If you don't have a computer and never transfer photos from a computer, you will never have a Photo Library.

Hi Allan.

Thanks for that wealth of information. It is all starting to make sense. It seems the existence of the PHOTO STREAM is messing either me up (because I am used to a different workflow when images come into, say Lightroom or Aperture).

I just want to repeat this so I understand what you are saying.

1. PHOTOSTREAM is set because of an option either I set or defaulted by Apple when I bought the iPad, and I can turn it off? That means I do not ever have to use PHOTOSTREAM? I want to make sure I understand you.

2. I can work off the IMPORT folders to create folders for different assignments and/or clients?

3.

You're welcome.

PhotoSteam is not turned on automatically. PhotoSteam is available with your iCloud account and can be turned on or off with your iCloud account settings.

Settings > iCloud > Photo Stream > on or off. PhotoStream is optional. I have a MacBook Pro using iPhoto with Photo Stream enabled there. I also have it enabled on my iPad 2, personal iPhone 5S, and business iPhone 5. I capture a photo with my iPhone 5S which is saved in the Camera Roll and automatically uploaded to my Photo Stream when connected to an available wi-fi network making the same photo available in my Photo Stream on my Mac, on my iPad 2, and business iPhone 5. There is an option available with Photo Steam with iPhoto on my Mac to automatically transfer Photo Steam photos to my iPhoto Library on my Mac so I don't need to import photos captured by any of my iOS devices with iPhoto on my Mac. If there are photos in my iPhoto Library imported from another camera on my Mac that I want available on all my iOS devices, I can transfer the photos from my iPhoto Library to my Photo Steam on my Mac making the photos available in my Photo Stream on all devices without having to connect each device to my Mac one by one to transfer the photos to each device via the iTunes sync process.

I haven't imported photos with my iPad using the Camera Connection Kit so I'm not sure about being able to transfer photos from your Import Library to user created albums or folders. You should be able to determine this easily. I've always done it from the Camera Roll on a particular device.

Allen, if I follow the string correctly and if I understand my experience correctly, I take a photo with one of my Apple devices and with iCloud enabled and a WiFi connection, all my devices are updated via the cloud, but the photo only exists on the device with which I took the photo (Camera Roll) and in the cloud (My Photo Stream).

• If on the image capture device (e.g. my iPhone) I delete it from the cloud (My Photo Stream folder), its gone from the stream on all devices but remains in the Camera Roll folder of the "capture" device. I can resend it to the cloud by sending it to the cloud (box with arrow icon that permits sending to a variety of apps including the cloud).
• If I delete it from the Camera Roll folder on the primary device and it has not been saved to a folder I have created on that device, it also deletes it from the cloud (My Photo Stream) and hence all other devices to which it has not been saved.

My other devices only "reference" the photo in the cloud (My Photo Stream folder on those devices) until I save it to a folder I have created on those secondary devices. If I delete it from the cloud (My Photo Stream folder) on a secondary device, it deletes from the cloud and hence from the My Photo Stream folder on all devices. If I save it to a folder on the secondary device, it is then saved to the Camera Roll of that device and the Camera Roll is where the photo actually resides on that device. The folder I created or saved it to merely references back to that photo in the Camera Roll of the seconday device. And it will still appear in the cloud (My Photo Stream folder) until such time that I delete it or its pushed off by 1000 new photos.

With iCloud enabled and a WiFi connection, I do not need to connect to my MacBook Air to save the photos on my hard drive provided I have the MacAir on and the devices are connected by WiFi.

For saving or transferring videos I still need to physically connect the capture device to the MacBook Air in order to transfer to my hard drive and iPhoto library.

Thanks for your help. I have a MacBook Air, iPad 2, and iPhone 4G and I am living in Argentina where there are no Apple Stores, Genius Bars, or training sessions. Hence, like Blanche DuBois, I must rely on the kindness of strangers. 🙂

If I delete it from the Camera Roll folder on the primary device and it has not been saved to a folder I have created on that device, it also deletes it from the cloud (My Photo Stream) and hence all other devices to which it has not been saved.

Not true. Deleting a photo from the Camera Roll on a device does not affect photos in the iCloud photo stream.

If you place a photo that is in the Camera Roll in a user created photo album on the device, the photo in the user created album on the device includes a pointer only to the original photo in the Camera Roll. The photo is not duplicated as in taking up double the storage space. If you delete a photo placed in a user created album on the device from the Camera Roll, the photo will be removed from the album on the device as well. This is completely separate from the iCloud Photo Stream. After a photo captured or saved by a device is copied to the Photo Stream, deleting the photo from the Camera Roll does not affect the photo in the Photo Stream.

I realize this won't add anything to resolving people's issues here, and I love Apple products, and Allan is a paragon of patience, 11 on a scale of 10 in awesomeness.

With that said, Apple is horrible when it comes to product documentation, responding to issues, and then they come up with these kinds of designs and app names which are totally confusing, convoluted, and massively frustrating.

I work in IT. I'm tech savvy. I'm appalled at the amount of new features Apple adds in upgrades that don't get mentioned, you have to figure them out - and they aren't intuitive. The names, and the options, such as in the case of Photo/Camera.* is just maddening, and takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy too long to figure out.

Look at this thread. What should be simple is up to 3 pages, with Allan explaining again and again, and STILL people are struggling with it.

I just shake my head in disbelief. Yes, I'll keep buying Apple products. Steve J's thing was to make it easy for users. Out of all the environments out there, Apple is by far the least intuitive.

Thanks and carry on, and Allan, I'm studying your repsonses in order to learn how to deal with my photos. Thanks so much for your time and patience.

Well put. I, too, have followed Allan for a long time, and have used Apple products for years. I still struggle with photos in iOS.

If I have created seprate albums on my iphone and I delete a photo from camera roll will it delete from the albums too? Al of my albums have the photos I want to keep and have synced already with itunes and photo stream. Thanks for any assistance

Answered in my previous post.

mcJeff - I totally agree: Apple was at one time a pargon of intuitive, easy-to-use products, both software and hardware. The iPad in general and iPad photo procedures in particular are totally the opposite - undocumented, non-intuitive and a colosal waste of the users time.

I also have an IT background, fully understand the technology and still find the iPad not worth my time to master. My solution was to buy apps that let me manage all photos on my MacBook and just force the collection I want, in the albums i want, back into the iPad. If i take new pictures with the iPad I first MOVE them to the mac, then put them in appropriate directories. Only certain photos are put in albums, which then migrate back to the iPad.

Regretably, Apple has become the new Microsoft, always searching for the next growth product to maintain it's stock price; it has walked away from the average user by dropping almost all documentation and even ignoring recurring problems. When I hit an IOS or OS X problem I usually do a web search to find a fix or work-around. It is not uncommon to find references to the problem going back several years and re-appearing on subsequent operating system releases; it is clear Apple is no longer doing root-cause analysis and permanently fixing bugs.

Allen - let me add my thanks to this extensive thread on how iPad photo et al really works.

I have imac 21 in desktop, iphone 5 and ipad(one before ipad air). Trying to upload from iphone, "videos" in albums on iphone. Why do only certain videos I have taken with iphone share with all devices but videos I take with phonethat say "videos" on phone will not? Videos in camera roll do not contain all the videos in video section of albums on phone. I'm confused! Please help.

Today, we had a devil of a time explaining the difference between Camera Roll and Photo Stream (or Albums) to an iPad study group. These are all people who have a level of computer experience (mixed Mac & PC, all iPad users), so they are not neophytes, but the idea of there being only one actual picture file (in Camera Roll) and the other forms just being pointers couldn't seem to penetrate. The analogy of the "shortcuts" in the Windows world, "aliases," etc. were of no avail.

Then a lady got up to explain a related topic, and when she was asked something or other about Camera Roll, hit upon the old film camera technology of negatives and prints. She compared the actual file on the Camera Roll to the negative, and the various pointers in Photo Stream, Albums, etc. as prints, stating that even though all the prints were burned, the negative would still exist....which actually seemed to clarify the point for many of them. But I'm sure we'll be back at that next week.*

*Note: She was careful to point out that this was just an analogy to things that exist only as 0s and 1s, and didn't correspond to anything physical.

Found this thread through google, I just want to second what others expressed - I am a software engineer, 25 years working with all OSes and all kinds of applications. I've had my iPad for 2 years, and I still haven't figured out how to achieve the following:

- when I get back home I want pictures I took using the iPad to get on my computer, over Wifi

- I wish I didn't need iTunes for that, but I know I will

- I don't want anything from my computer going to the iPad

- I don't want anything to do with iCloud (at this point)

I can do that in 5mn with a $50 phone, but not with the iPad... someone at Apple hopefully will listen eventually.

Franck

iTunes is not used to import or transfer photos from the Camera Roll on an iOS device. Something a software engineer should be aware of.

Importing photos from the Camera Roll is handled as with any other digital camera which does not involve iTunes.

WIth an iCloud account with Photo Stream enabled with the account settings on the device and on your computer, photos in the Camera Roll will be transferred to your Photo Stream automatically when the device is connected to an available wi-fi network which in turn downloads the new photos in your Photo Stream on your computer with the option to save your Photo Stream photos locally on your computer.

Or do it the old fashioned way by importing the photos from the Camera Roll with your computer via USB as with any other digital camera.