New to Apple, frustrated with menu bar

piperoon - that's that interesting and helpful.

I can't remember what it was like in Yosemite or before, but in El Capitan, the System Preferences>Dock>"Double-click a window's title" checkbox has two options, minimize and zoom. If you uncheck the box, nothing happens on double-clicking the title bar. With Zoom, the window maximizes. I haven't tried every app I have, but it looks like that's what everyone seems to want. The window fills the screen except for the menubar and the dock.

There doesn't appear to be any option or tweak that allows a simple click of the green button to maximize the window. Option-click will maximize the screen.

If you never want the window to go full screen but always maximize, you can trap the click using Better Touch Tool such that it maximizes instead of going full. Then use right-click to revert to the original dimensions.

Is it a workaround? Yes. Should Apple change the default or at least provide an option to change the default? I think so. Will they? Probably not. So a workaround or technique is the best we have.

To make the menu bar not hide go to System Preferences>General and uncheck the "Automatically Hide the Menu Bar" option.

So reading back 2 pages I see a few people posted solutions. (Some of the later ideas in this post (#7,8) are the simpler ones.)

1) Go to system preferences... Dock... and turn off 'hide dock" (I'm paraphrasing the preferences page). Also turn off "click title bar to minimize." With these off, the dock stays on top. And to max a window (keep menu on top) instead of fullscreen (remove everything) clicking the title bar now maximizes the window. This is piperoons and bob's.

2) In a few applications under the View menu is a setting to "show menu" that keeps the menu on top. So it's not in the mac settings directly for some mac programs, but in the menu itself (that lets you keep the menu visible).

3) There's a toggle for turning on and off visibly of the dock on the dock itself, by right clicking on the black bar to the left of the trash can (or near that black bar).

4) Control-command-F turns on and off fullscreen. But it doesn't go to maximize like a Windows user would expect. Instead it goes to that in between state that the dash button (yellow on a mac), where you have to re-size the windows to close to fullsize.

5) Bob's postings a few pages back also talk about some applications he's found.

6) In windows the equivalent to get to fullscreen is F11. Otherwise everything is "always" on top in most applications or all of them. Macs are using that fullscreen as default and making it less than obvious how to go back to a maximize state.

7) Option-click on the green fullscreen, changes it to a max function instead, Bob points out.

8) Csound has a screen shot that you can toggle on and off showing the menu bar, from the General page of System preferences. I didn't see that option on our macs, but will look again.

Thank you very much to the people who posted actual ideas.

To the people who were unwelcoming, I've made a mental note that this may show up with Mac users having an attitude at new users or windows users, and to ignore and look for the "normal" people instead. It's like you've got a persecution complex and have to justify your attachment to Macs. I have news for you, if someone bought a mac and is new, they've already been converted. Accusing people of being "windows users" because they want to do something is just RUDE.

@ Curlscurls: Here here!

The dock is at the bottom of the page not the top. The menu bar is at the top, and you can suppress either of them disappearing by turning the function off. I already told you how to stop the menu bar disappearing, but you seem to be confused as to which is which.

I'm also seeking to stop the menu bar hiding when an application is in full screen. Checking the Automatic hide and show the menu bar doesn't address this issue for me, I don't want it to show when hovering mouse over the area, just want it not to hide in the first place. Any other suggestions gratefully received.

HerbXS wrote:

I'm also seeking to stop the menu bar hiding when an application is in full screen. Checking the Automatic hide and show the menu bar doesn't address this issue for me, I don't want it to show when hovering mouse over the area, just want it not to hide in the first place. Any other suggestions gratefully received.

There is no way to stop the menu bar from hiding when an application is in full-screen mode. You'll just have to either live with it or manually resize your browser/application window so that it's taking up the entire screen with the menu bar still at the top.

I am also new to Apple and get frustrated sometimes also. However this discussion has helped me with the tips on revealing the top menu bar by clicking on it and using the keyboard shortcuts to shrink the active screen.

What annoyed me most was the reluctance of the top menu bar to appear when I hovered the pointer over the top of the screen it but now knowing a simple click will do it has been a happy revelation.

One other thing I find annoying, though I suppose I'll have learn to live with it, is how the top control menu isn't docked to the current window a la Windows but instead stays at the top of the screen. But then switching to Apple after, what 25 years of Windows, it would be surprising if I didn't have to make someadjustments.

Here's the answer -

If you don't want that (or just not impressed), then turn setting back on - UN-check the box in System Preferences/General pref pane "Automatically hide and show the menu bar"

In all fairness the fullscreen-not fullscreen answer is incorrect and i can feel the frustration of answering the question incorrectly.

Hold the Alt button and click the green button top left side of your screen.

I got this information from my teenage son rather than the hours that I've taken reading through 9 pages of Apple Support forum

Try again, ignore the Green button because there isn't one.

If I understand correctly what you are asking.

Go to System Preferences, select General and deselect "Automatically hide and show the menu bar"

Hopefully this helps.

OK, so I am a new Apple user thanks to a change in jobs, going from Corporate America to working for in Education. There are some things that have been very frustrating during this transition, however I refuse to be the old dog that won't learn the new tricks.

I also would like to have the toolbar locked in the always visible position on the top of my open full screen application. However, something became more clear to me, as I read through these posts, there are some semantics issues we are experiencing. For all of you "Hardcore Windows PC folks" such as myself, try to visualize what I am saying (as I don't want to go through the process of creating screenshots on my PC then copying them over to my Mac).

We (Windows Folks) are comparing FULLSCREEN on Mac as the same as FULL SCREEN mode on a Windows Program. This is where semantics enters.

Actually, when we are in a windows program such as Excel on a PC, we are working in a MAXIMIZED window configuration not FULL SCREEN. By default we typically view our screen in a MAXIMIZED window in the NORMAL viewing mode.

To better understand:

While in Excel on a PC, select the toolbar View Tab, in the workbook views section of the toolbar, you will see several different viewing options. They include Normal, Page Layout, Page Break Preview and FULL SCREEN. If you select FULL SCREEN view, you are now comparing Mac and PC apples to Apple (pun Intended). You will notice as with the Mac full screen mode the toolbar is not visible, as a matter of fact it cannot even be made visible without exiting the full screen mode. At least in the Mac Version you can get it to drop down.

Again, I would prefer to be able to use have the toolbar locked in the full screen view also, but at least it is accessible in this view, unlike in Windows true fullscreen View.

I appreciate having a user forum to share ideas, but as I am finding in my new Apple work environment. I have to remember most of these folks have no experience working with PC's as some of us newbee's do. So, if we are going to come on these boards as the Old Dogs learning the new tricks. We have quit trying to equate everything with our old Windows environment and just accept the new environment as different and maybe actually better in some aspects. But if you really want something the to function the same, we Windows folks need to do a better job of explaining exactly what we are trying to accomplish, and not assume others know what we are talking about.

Sorry if some of this is too basic. I've used both Windows and Macs for years. Part of the cause for confusion is that in OS X, the menu bar appears at the top of the screen and is shared by all applications. The menu bar contents change as the application changes. At least the menus on the left change. What you call the toolbar is the right part of the menu bar. If I were on Windows, I would call this the tray that usually appears in the lower right. The contents of this part of the menu bar don't usually change. And to complete the picture, the dock is like the quick launch toolbar.

By the way, there is an app that provides a menu bar on each window. It's called MenuEverywhere from Binary Bakery. However, the current system protection in El Capitan may prevent it from working unless that protection is overridden.

OS X has allows windows to be maximized and minimized plus there's a full screen option. In full screen mode, everything except the window contents is hidden. So the menu bar and the dock disappear. You can access the menu bar by moving the mouse to the very top of the screen, and the dock by going to the very bottom. The idea is to provide a distraction free working environment. Personally, I have found very few apps where I want to be that distraction free. And I don't see the menu bar as a distraction.

Apple just changed what happens when you click the green button in the upper right of a window. It used to maximize the window, although the actual resulting size was dependent on the application. Yes, some applications didn't maximize to fill the screen. As of Yosemite, the OS X version prior to El Capitan, the green button now takes the application into full screen.

If you want to maximize rather than going full screen, hold the Option/Alt key while clicking the green button. That maximizes the window and keeps the menu bar at the top and the dock at the bottom. There's a System Preference under Dock to have the dock hide automatically. But it will do that all the time rather than just when you maximize. Also, make sure that the option to automatically hide and show the menu bar is unchecked in System Preferences>General.

Also, if you double click a window's title bar, the window will maximize, keeping the menu bar.

If you constantly forget to hold the Option key, like I did, you can pick up Better Touch Tool that allows you to re-program mouse clicks and keys. I have it set such that if I left click on the green button, or option left click in case I forget, the window maximizes instead of going fullscreen. And a right click on the green button returns the window to its original size. I have not programmed a way to get into fullscreen. My menu bar never disappears.

Hope this helps.

Bob