MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

johns1 wrote:

The problem here is you have people saying every LG panel is bad, and other people saying they are not. Until someone locks this thread it won't stop.

The real problem is that all of the bad screens (with IR) are LG screens. Does that mean that all LG screens are bad? Not necessarily, but the fact that some people are saying the have good LG screens isn't conclusive proof that there are some good LG screens because many of the people that initiall said they had a good LG screen later said the screen started to show IR problems over a period of time (a few days or 2-3 weeks).

Do I think all LG screens are bad? Possibly not, but based on everything I've read, I'd feel 100% confident of having a good screen if I had a Samsung screen. But if I had an LG screen, I'd be thinking that even if it doesn't have a problem now, it might have one in the future.

Unfortunately, since Apple hasn't made any statement on the matter other than "all screens show IR", there are no assurances that Apple will replace/fix a screen that shows IR issues (or other shortcomings when compared to a Samsung screen).

Personally, I've sent two rMBPs back to Apple and am now just waiting to see what happens before placing another order. I don't want to play the lottery because it's a waste of my time and Apple's money, and I figure Apple will eventually get this mess sorted out.

It's just a **** shame when there are such obvious differences in the quality of what you get based on the manufacturer of the underlying components. Apple really shouldn't accept this kind of junk from LG and should make LG pay to replace all problemmatic screens with ones comparable to what Samsung is producing.

High-Death wrote:

In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

It is easy to put 10 million transistors onto the surface of your typical 15" LCD. Intel currently shoves 1.4 BILLION transistors into 160mm^2, about the surface area of a penny. The problem is allowing enough light through. The wikipedia link you quoted is for black and white displays only. The color displays are nothing but B&W displays with color filters. But thank you, please try again.

Now, what else have you said… hunnn, you said the LED is formed by a blue phosphor and a white phosphor…. WRONG! It is formed by a BLUE BULB (LED) and a yellow phosphor inside it! I have even specified which yellow phosphor is used.

Are you blind man? This is what I said:

"The LEDs themselves reside along the edges of the panels are actually blue with a yellow phosphor which when mixed together produces white light."

Instead, these panels display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method that combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use a form of temporal dithering called Frame Rate Control (FRC), which cycles between different shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade. Such 18 bit panels with dithering are sometimes advertised as having "16.2 million colors"."

If you knew anything about LCD terminology it is common for authors to address say "pixel" when they really mean "subpixels". Furthermore you still haven't provided any physical explanation as to how an LCD displays colors if all the pixels can either be "on" or "off".

I have been trying to catch up on this thread for the past 2-3 hours due to the fact I ordered a rMPB on August 22nd but it isn't coming in until September 2nd (upgraded from 8gb RAM to 16gb). I am seeing that the LG screens are bunk and the Samsung screens work? What is the Unix command for viewing which one you have? If I ordered on August 22nd am I guarentee'd a Samsung scren? And last but not least does the 14 day return policy start when you recieve your notebook or when you place the order? Sorry for all the questions, I spent my entire summer earnings on a laptop for college and am hoping for it not to be defected!

hocheung20 wrote:

High-Death wrote:

In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

It is easy to put 10 million transistors onto the surface of your typical 15" LCD. Intel currently shoves 1.4 BILLION transistors into 160mm^2, about the surface area of a penny. The problem is allowing enough light through. The wikipedia link you quoted is for black and white displays only. The color displays are nothing but B&W displays with color filters. But thank you, please try again.

You have to be out of your TINY BATCRAZY MIND to say the link was about B&W LCD panels!!! It is about color lcd panels and the specific text is about COLOR IPS panels. But lets just quote the next paragraph following the text I have quoted (from the same wikipedia link and article):

Before LG Enhanced IPS was introduced in 2009, the additional transistors resulted in blocking more transmission area, thus requiring a brighter backlight and consuming more power, making this type of display less desirable for notebook computers. This newer, lower power technology can be found in the AppleiMac, Macbook Pro, iPad, and iPhone 4, the Hewlett-Packard EliteBook mobile workstations and the Nokia 701.

As we can see, these (including APPLE) are all B&W displays... GET REAL!

And when I said impractical the reason seems to be pretty obvious from the text above. LG had to develop a new technology to allow 2 transistors PER PIXEL, you read it now right...

Now, from the document you said you have read, lets see the huge crystal clear image showing 2 TRANSISTORS PER PIXEL:

How about this image for blindness??? But yeah, the image is wrong, they CRAZILY meant SUBPIXEL eventhough the subpixels are clearly represented in the drawing. And of course, Wikipedia text is confused, it i not you who is confused, it is every single technical text in the face of the EARTH! According to you is the terminology of insanity and error who is very popular among scientists and technical papers...

Please, hocheung20, I know you are trying to be helpful, but please do not respond to HIgh-Death's comments about LCD technology. Trying to discuss the issue with this person is a dead end and it wastes alot of thread space. I wish I had realized this sooner, I am sure that lots of other readers also wish I had realized it sooner, and I hope you can realize it now. Thank you.

No, let them! I love it when geeks go at it like high school girls.

It beats Honey Boo Boo Child for sure.

(grabs popcorn) 😍

DC

You completely confuse the terms electrodes, transistors, and take things out of context (read the sentence before your quote about IPS displays, it clearly means that E-IPS improved from 2 transistors to 1 transistor per pixel).

Furthermore, the picture you posted completely proves my point. What are those black gaps between each chevron (>) looking element? Oh those are electrodes!

I also love how you have moved from your original position that phosphors are part of the LCD structure and responsible for IR.

As bjiibj suggested, I'm going to ignore you now since you obviously have no clue *** you are talking about.

I am just a troll, is it so hard? Bjiibj, you are the same as hocheung20, zombies, only zombies respond to trolls! But I am a troll who is amazingly fed up with this Samsung thread, this marketing device. It seems that takes a troll trying to provoke posters (through spreading some errors) to look for info, for people to understand how things actually work. It is good that bjiibj/hocheung20, and of course johns1, have brought so much great info to show IR is standard and this thread is mostly about excessive panic...

Now let the troll go...

Hocheung20/bjiibj, your last reply has an TRUE error, but I am not into it anymore. Good that you are sure that IR is standard for all LCDs... I think it is great!

Unfortunately,my replacement LG panel used 1 weeks,now IR occurrd.

Apple,can you done the right thing?

Apple must be held responsible for this!

I received my (2nd) replacement Macbook Pro with Retina Display on tuesday; initially I had no image retention, but after leaving a checkerboard image up for ~15 min tonight there was image retention on the dark gray background. I e-mailed the Apple representative I have been working with and will let you know how things go.

Where are you guys getting the checkboard image?

To all the owners of an LG panel: could you try this test?

http://www.mediafire.com/?n09robxfo5j6t17

This should give a more measurable indication of the retention problem.

Post your result back please!

My result code is:

T1401T2536P1G5aB30I0

I have an LG display, rMBP bought July 7 at a local Apple store. Started noticing image retention after about 3 weeks.

When running your test app (nice app btw!) I let the static checkerboard stay on screen for 4 minutes, then switched to grey and checkerboard was clearly visible. At about 3:30 on grey the checkerboard was getting very faint but still visible. At 5:30 the checkerboard was almost nearly gone; it was taking 5 - 10 seconds of looking to find it again after looking away. It still wasn't 100% completely gone but it was so far gone that I would never have noticed it if I weren't looking for it.

Some small suggestions for your great app:

1. Let the user switch between grey and back to checkerboard with a keypress so that the user can know when to stop (when image retention is visible). Possibly this is already doable with some combination of keys in the app but I didn't want to disturb my test so I didn't play around too much.

2. Make it easier to copy-paste the result code. Maybe it was easier than I realized, but I had to manually select the result code and copy it before quitting, if I had forgotten to I don't know how I would have gotten the code back.

EDIT:

Another data point:

Leaving the checkerboard up for 2 minutes also resulted in image retention (not quite as strong as the 4 minute checkerboard image retention, but pretty close) which had faded to nearly completely invisible at 3:30 of grey. Result code for this: T1200T2232P1G5aB30I0

EDIT:

10 - 15 mnutes after not showing any checkerboard at all, it is still faintly there on a grey background (although it seems to slowly be getting 'overwritten' by image retention of the browser window I am typing this into).

Here's something really interesting:

EVEN WITH THE BACKLIGHT COMPLETELY OFF, I can still make image retention happen:

1. Ensure that there is no checkerboard image retention currently

2. Start the image retention test app with checkerboard pattern

3. Turn off the backlight by using F1 repeatedly until it is off

4. Wait until the ding (I waited 4 minutes)

5. Turn the backlight back on

6. Hey presto, the image retention checkerboard is there in the now grey screen

So obviously the backlight has nothing to do with the image retention, and obviously the pixels are still being held to the values they need to be to display the image, even though the backlight is not on and thus no light is coming through the display, and it is the holding of the pixels at a certain opacity that is resulting in an accumulation of charge that is causing image retention.