MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

Honestly, I'm really torn

Have a 2.6/16/256GB which is the best config for me. I've had it about 12 days, but only been able to spend about 2-3 days with it. It's the LG screen.

While there doesn't APPEAR to be an IR issue, I've tried the tests, etc, the issue that I DO have is that it seems as if the brightness doesn't go to 11. I mean, compared to my 2008 MBP, it seems as if there is about 2 clicks of brightness missing. I've changed the settings in Display and Energy saver to make sure I'm not capping it somehow, but still in a normally lit room I have to be at about ONE CLICK below full to have a comfortable viewing brightness. Is that normal, for the LG but is the Samsung brighter?

But I'm torn, since pretty much everything else about the machine seems perfect. No dead pixels, everything just ROCKS, burn in doesn't seem to be an issue - although I've only put about 3-5 hours use on the machine.

I only have till Monday (it arrived on a monday about two weeks ago) to return it if i want, and even then I probably have to do it Sunday due to work)

I'm leaning to just returning it at the moment, waiting it out and ordering another one in a few weeks. Although, will Samsung continue to supply at the same rate as they have with these stupid law suits? I think we know now that LG will be supplying the new iphone 5 screen or at least that is the talk on the street.

Thoughts? Live with it, or send it back and live to fight another day? Is there any way to tell if the brightness on THIS machine is equal to what the Samsung WOULD be?

Ronald Burgundy

It's too bad that Apple and Samsung are not getting along better. Combined, they make good products. LG panels have a lower cost across the board, and the quality difference shown in the pictures in this thread is consistent with the quality difference long been seen between LG and Samsung televisions. LG is budget tier, so it's disappointing to get one in a premium product, especially when paying the same price as Samsung screens.

LG is now a major producer of high resolution displays, not budget tier. They are not anything close to their roots as Goldstar. They are now producing very cutting edge 4K displays for sale even before Samsung gets their act together. see http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/22/lg-4k-84-inch-uhdtv/

IMHO this discussion about LG AH-ISP panels being inferior to Samsung PLS (variant of ISP) offers little proof that the problem is widespread, yes obviously there are some bad panels out there.

As one person observed in Macumors.com: Reading posts on here as well as on Apple forum (over 105 pages) kinda makes your go crazy in thinking that something better is out there, when some say you must exchange until you get samsung and other saying there is no difference.

I'm going to swap this one, and although I'd definitely prefer a Samsung, I'll take an LG with no IR. However it's becoming obvious that all of the LGs suffer from this problem under scrutiny, and with it getting progressively worse within the first several days, I don't want to chance it turning bad in a year. I'm convinced anyone claiming to have a good LG either hasn't let it run long enough, or doesn't have a discerning eye.

I ran the 15 min test twice both normal and inverted that RetinaUser supplied, nada IR for my LG based panel (LP154WT1-SJA1). My laptop is more then couple of weeks old.

johns1 wrote:

As one person observed in Macumors.com: Reading posts on here as well as on Apple forum (over 105 pages) kinda makes your go crazy in thinking that something better is out there, when some say you must exchange until you get samsung and other saying there is no difference.

When one pays for $2200 to $4000 for a laptop, it better be functionally perfect. Who knows what other flaws this LG panel may exhibit down the line when the machine is out of warranty?

The amount of people who have seen 3+ panels with this flaw makes me believe this is not a QC, but a design problem.

As evidenced by the Macrumors poll, it appears 50% of panels are LG and 50% of those panels have IR problems. This is not a QC issue, LG would be losing mad moneys to create so many LCDs with flaws knowingly if their QC is working properly.

The question is if LG and/or Apple engineers knew about this IR problem before they released the panel. It's hard to imagine what respectable electronics engineer wouldn't test multiple copies of their product for 2-3 weeks before releasing it to the public, and IR surely should have shown up by then, so I'm inclined to believe that they knew about it but released it anyways hoping people wouldn't notice.

Of course the Macrumors poll doesn't specify how long to use the panel before testing IR (some brand new panels apparently do not exhibit IR) so the defect rate maybe even higher than that poll indicates.

It seems Apple doesn't ever do recalls unless forced to by class actions (Original Magsafe adapter, 8600MGT), so I hope some lawyer is reading this thread and gets us all free rMBP upgrades (or something like that, I have wasted over 6 hours talking to Apple on this issue alone and still haven't recieved a replacement panel)

I just got my week 28 rMBP from apple after having my LG with terrible IR replaced. The replacement was also LG but no IR what so ever. I tested it for a couple of hours now and nothing.

So not all LG screens suffer from IR. At least it looks like LG might have fixed their panels. If IR crops back I will update here.

AppleCare covers you for 3 years. The bit about what flaws will appear after a great deal of time is fluff, problems usually appear fairly soon in a products life. It not like one's computer screen exhibits problems a lot. I seen hundreds of LCD panels and displays, very unusual to run into noticable IR. Beleive or not I even seen permanent persistant where the image no longer disappears on a LCD display, quite rare, but happens sometimes.

The macrumors thread The Ultimate rMBP Image Retention Test which includes a poll represents 154 votes only, hardly enough inputs to statically project a accurate representation of the true number of panels with issues. If Apple ships thousands of MBPr's and all we see is that, drop in the bucket.

I threw out another macrumors thread Any rMBP owners here with a flawless LG screen? which now has 84 posts.

If someone would count the number of people that actually posted in this thread that had a IR issue that they would like Apple to correct or has been since repaired/swapped out, your probably looking at something between 100 to 200 legit failures that I would certainly hope Apple went out of its way to correct without the customer having to argue his/her position.

BTW don't spin that 2k to 4k bit, as Mac's have always been expensive and todays Mac's are way cheaper then they use to be. I agree no one that spends a good chunk of change should encounter problems, but stuff happens. 🙂

I have ghosting and I do not have a user account on mac rumors forum. nor do I particuarly intend to get one... i wouldn't go by that forum or its survey. i would go by this official one. and i'm apple does do.

and yes i'm sure LG has fixed their panels by now if not already -- but there's a huge number of panels out in circulation that are bad and they should be able to put a date on them based on all the reports. they should issue a recall for screens before that date. and should create a very simple application that lets the user run it to see if they are eligible...it would be very simple and responsible of apple. especially on this flagship display.

>>IMHO this discussion about LG AH-ISP panels being inferior to Samsung PLS (variant of ISP) offers little proof that the problem is widespread, yes obviously there are some bad panels out there.<<

Agreed!

Obviously, there are some bad panels out there. Obviously, there are some bad keyboards out there. And whatever else you can find wrong with your "baby".

But, I dunno...I do wonder and I think this thread is starting to stink.

That statement is not meant to mean that there are not people whom have legitimate concerns or grievances with their purchase. There will always be problems in any new design for early adopters.

However, my LG screen has been in use for 51 days and I have not seen one....single....problem. Not one! No IR, despite repeated tests. I have an LG panel, build 1054 in week 23 (June).

The screen is stunning. Beautiful to look at. I couldn't ask for a better display or a better computer.

And please note, this is my first Mac. I am a former PC guy. I have built my last 3 desktops and have had new laptops every other year for the last two decades. I wonder how many of the respondents to this discussion have even been on this earth for the last two decades?

I can honestly say that this is the finest laptop I have ever owned. Apple delivered and if they didn't, as a former "PC guy", I would be the first to bust their chops and all the Apple fanboys on this website.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but my experience is different and "your mileage may vary".

Good luck to all in solving your problems.

Mike

Just picked up my replacement 2.4/16/256 rMBP from the Apple Store today. My original one had terrible burn in-looked like a broken monitor after leaving an image on it for 5 minutes.

Had called Applecare, they said they would only repair it, as it was 37 days old. I took it to the local Apple Genius Bar, and they were very nice and ordered the replacement.

Unfortunately, the replacement I got today is an LG screen (week 35). Leaving an image on the screen for 20 minutes, I can see trace retention.. Much better than before, but from what I'm reading, this problem is progressive.

I bought a $2500 computer , and it's inferior to the Samsung display other rMBPs have. It's defective. I'm angry I sold my old matte MBP on ebay for $1000 - this was a superior computer with superior battery life.

Any suggestions what to do now? Am I now within a new 14-day window to return this item for a refund? Or is my original purchase day (now 45 days) applied?

I'm definitely not selling my iPhone 4S to jump for an iPhone 5 -- seems Apple's standards really have taken a turn for the worse. I've bought the latest Apple items for 20 years now - and will be reconisdering that strategy. I seem to think Apple's legal issues with Samsung are clouding their better judgment - putting the best parts in their computer.

I did buy this with a credit card with a 60 day return protection plan. I might file to return it through the CC company. $2500 for a 'premium' machine , after selling my perfect MBP for $1000 on ebay, it bites.

Look, this is the best laptop I've ever owned as well EXCEPT the IR...and that's what really stinks dude =) Sorry, but I can't tell you how disappointing it is to lay out that kinda money for something with a huge flaw. It takes a matter of seconds and I can see the outlines and details of the Chrome web browser in my dark gray programming IDE background when I flip back to write some code. Uh...That's super annoying ha.

I have the same week, unit #320 for the week. Leave your image on for about 30 minutes, then look very carefully. I think you'll see a trace.

I've got a novel idea:

How about people who do not have Image Retention and think it's not a real issue NOT COMMENT ON THIS THREAD ABOUT THEM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM.

Why there are two or three repeat offenders going to every thread and telling people their issues are imaginary baffles me.

This way, thread is kept clean and shorter too. These forums are for users with problems and other users who have a potential solution to those problems. If you don't fit in either group then there's no reason to comment.

johns1 wrote:

AppleCare covers you for 3 years.

So you're suggesting I buy an extended warranty/insurance to cover a known faulty product? How nice of me to pay for the privelege of having a defective product.

As a general rule of thumb, I don't ever buy extended warranty coverage because A) Manufacturers always find some ******** reason to invalidate the claim, and B) statistically speaking, if I put the extended warranty into a bank account, I end up doing better.

johns1 wrote:

The bit about what flaws will appear after a great deal of time is fluff, problems usually appear fairly soon in a products life.

Have any evidence to back up your claim?

johns1 wrote:

It not like one's computer screen exhibits problems a lot. I seen hundreds of LCD panels and displays, very unusual to run into noticable IR. Beleive or not I even seen permanent persistant where the image no longer disappears on a LCD display, quite rare, but happens sometimes.

Would you agree that IR is not a "normal display characteristic"? If so, why shouldn't Apple replace it?

johns1 wrote:

The macrumors thread The Ultimate rMBP Image Retention Test which includes a poll represents 154 votes only, hardly enough inputs to statically project a accurate representation of the true number of panels with issues. If Apple ships thousands of MBPr's and all we see is that, drop in the bucket.

It's the ratios which are important, not the actual numbers. With 154 votes and supposedly 10k rMBP manufactured, it is statistically unlikely that the sampled ratio diverges signficantly from the true ratio. The US Census does with a smaller ratio and comes up meaningful numbers.

johns1 wrote:

If someone would count the number of people that actually posted in this thread that had a IR issue that they would like Apple to correct or has been since repaired/swapped out, your probably looking at something between 100 to 200 legit failures that I would certainly hope Apple went out of its way to correct without the customer having to argue his/her position.

And that appears not to be the case. Many users are being refused repairs because somebody at Apple claims "This is a normal display characteristic", or "Wait for a firmware fix". I myself spent 3 hours in a store, and 6 hours on the phone with Applecare after my 1st panel replacement to convince somebody that I need a panel replacement.

johns1 wrote:

BTW don't spin that 2k to 4k bit, as Mac's have always been expensive and todays Mac's are way cheaper then they use to be. I agree no one that spends a good chunk of change should encounter problems, but stuff happens. 🙂

It's the ratio of pricing that matters, not the absolute cost. When I buy an Apple laptop, I pay the premium for the hardware compared to an equivalent plasticy Dell. In that respect, the ratios have not changed much in price.

rrahimi

I've got a novel idea:

How about people who do not have Image Retention and think it's not a real issue NOT COMMENT ON THIS THREAD ABOUT THEM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM.

Why there are two or three repeat offenders going to every thread and telling people their issues are imaginary baffles me.

This way, thread is kept clean and shorter too. These forums are for users with problems and other users who have a potential solution to those problems. If you don't fit in either group then there's no reason to comment.

The problem here is you have people saying every LG panel is bad, and other people saying they are not. Until someone locks this thread it won't stop.

In general, the LG panels are the problem.

hocheung20,

Please do not evoke my name in vain!

Now about your comment, I am always amazed to find people suggesting others to read a document which they actually couldn't possibly had read, otherwise they would not have posted anything at all.

In the document there is a picture clearly showing 2 transistors PER PIXEL, there are even 3 subpixels arranged BETWEEN THE 2 SUBPIXELS! But anybody with a minimum notion about this would have already guessed at this point it is impractical to have 2 transistors per subpixel even more when we consider we are talking about a 5 million pixels 15' display! But lets quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29):

"In-plane switching is an LCD technology that aligns the liquid crystals in a plane parallel to the glass substrates. In this method, the electrical field is applied through opposite electrodes on the same glass substrate, so that the liquid crystals can be reoriented (switched) in the same plane. This requires TWO TRANSISTORS FOR EACH PIXEL instead of the SINGLE transistor needed for a standard thin-film transistor (TFT) display."

Now, what else have you said… hunnn, you said the LED is formed by a blue phosphor and a white phosphor…. WRONG! It is formed by a BLUE BULB (LED) and a yellow phosphor inside it! I have even specified which yellow phosphor is used.

Something else from Wikipedia:

"Instead, these panels display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method that combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use a form of temporal dithering called Frame Rate Control (FRC), which cycles between different shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade. Such 18 bit panels with dithering are sometimes advertised as having "16.2 million colors"."

I also have a novel idea, why not write "Samsung Sponsored Thread" in the title?

BTW, johns1 seems to be one of the few sane around here, and I mean it.

Now let me go...