Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!

I've tried all kinds of combinations between my MacBook Pro iCal and my iPhone and it just doesn't work.

First, with iCal on my laptop, turning time zone support on gives the option of selecting which time zone to display and set events on the calendar. With support off, the calendar updates times depending on which time zone you're in. This makes no sense!!! If anything, the calendar times should stay fixed and not change at all if support is off. Turning support on should make the calendar adjust times.

Second, what's the point for entering times in different time zones anyway? If I have a meeting or a flight anywhere in the world, the time is the time no matter what. If I have travel to a different time zone and I set an event for 2 PM, that event will change time when I go to another time zone giving me the wrong time. If I set the event for 2 PM in a different time zone, it will diplay the wrong time in my current time zone.

Third, there is no option to start in one time zone and end in another. I fly all the time. If I turn time zone support on and set a time for a departing flight at 4 PM Eastern, there is no option to arrive at a time in another time zone, so the arrival time will be wrong when the calendar updates in the arriving time zone. If I turn support off, and set an event to start at 4 PM and travel an hour ahead, the calendar will then say the event is at 5 PM when it updates in the new time zone, which is wrong and I'll miss that event.

If I turn my laptop calendar time zone support and iPhone TZS both on or off, times keep getting screwed up. If one is on and one is off, it gets screwed up. Just as an example, to keep my laptop calendar to have the actual time of all my events no matter where I am, I turned time zone support on and set to Central time, where I live. With TZS off, all my times would change to one hour ahead when I go to the Eastern time zone which would screw up any event I would need to refer to. My iPhone has TZS on as well. I have a flight at 3:30 eastern arriving home at 4:30 central, but if I create the event in eastern at 3:30 there is no option to finish in central, so I would have to mark my arrival as 5:30 eastern. When I get home, my calendar would say I left at 2:30 and arrived at 4:30. If I had looked at my calendar before my trip to the eastern time zone, my calendar would say I'm leaving at 2:30, which is wrong for the zone I would leave from, but the arrival time is correct.

Now, with all TZS turned on, and my calendar set to central, and a 3:30 PM Eastern flight with a 24 hour advance alert, my phone alerted me at 4:30 Eastern of my 3:30 Eastern flight because my calendar was set to Central time, not Eastern. Had I had TZS turned off and entered the flight as 3:30, it would display at 4:30 when I arrived in Eastern and my departure and arrival time would be wrong when my calendar updated once in returned to Central and, while still in the Eastern zone, every single event in my calendar would be advance by one hour to reflect the Eastern zone and would be wrong for the actual time those events were to take place in Central, or any other time zone.

If I lived in New York and I traveled to Los Angeles and had an 8 AM meeting in LA, while in NY my calendar would say I had a 11 AM meeting if TZS was on and set to Eastern and wouldn't change to 8 until I manually selected the Pacific time zone. If TZS was off, my 8 AM meeting would display as 5 AM when I arrived in LA and the calendar updated automatically.

The whole system just makes no sense at all and serves no purpose that I can see. The time is the time regardless of where I am or what time zone I'm in. I will always be where I am and the time will always be the time. Why make it change? I want to look at my calendar and have the right time no matter where I am. Apple needs to fix this thing to either add multiple time zones for a single event's start and end time and display the time zone in the calendar or they need to get rid of time zone support altogether.

If anybody knows of a way to keep the calendar on both the computer and the iPhone to actually work in a manner that doesn't change times and will alert me to the actual time of events regardless of time zones I'd love to hear it. Outside of turning off location services, which will screw up every other app, I don't see a fix. Unless Apple give the option to turn of location services for iCal on the iPhone.

iPhone 4S, iOS 5.1.1, Aslo MacBook Pro 15 inch Early 2008

Posted on Jun 21, 2012 12:09 PM

Top-ranking reply

chrismcs

Level 1

0 points

Posted on Mar 6, 2013 8:45 AM

The problem, however, like I was mentioning in my last post - it doesn't matter what system you go to. Every calendar app you use (Google, Outlook, etc) will inherently want you to be more precise than your paper calendar because they are inherently different than a paper calendar. When you specify a time on ANY calendar app, you are inherently specifying a very precise point in time, not just a "time" (ie you are specifying that time in a given time zone) -- and this is a MUST for any calendar app to properly do its job (sharing calendars, meeting requests, etc). Think about it - if someone in a different time zone sends you a meeting request at "4pm", how in the world do you know when that appointment really is? Did they mean their time zone or yours? And if it were to appear at 4pm on both of your calendars, one of you is wrong.

Also - keep in mind...when you change time zones, the calendar is not changing when your appointment occurs..it's keeping it at the same exact point in time that you said it was - which is precisely why the time label changes when you go to a different time zone. Suppose you schedule an appointment at 5pm while in CST. If you fly to PST and the calendar still showed your appointment at 5pm, internally, it would have had to actually shift the start & end time of your appt by 2 hours (reschedule your alarms, etc).

Apple HAS given you three useful features already to navigate this: 1) with time zone support turned on, you can specify the time zone of the event you are scheduling -- so if you mean "4pm CST", you can set the time zone as part of setting the event (with time zone support turned off, Calendar just assumes you are specifying the time in the local time zone because it has no way of knowing otherwise). This is perhaps the most useful of all three features. 2) with time zone support on, you can lock all your calendar to a specific time zone. To me, this isn't a very useful feature because it would effectively make alarms useless to me while I travel. 3) You can use floating time zones where your events will shift to preserve the same "time" when you change time zones...Personally - I'd advise that you use those sparingly for alarm clock like features (like I want to run at 6am no matter where I am). I wouldn't advise using FTZ for scheduling appointments because you'll inadvertently end up making mess (consider the impact of all your appointments changing to an unexpected time because you have an unexpected business trip come up between now when when you thought you might be in a certain time zone).

You mentioned you wanted to switch to Google - but you'll have the same issue there as well. With Google, you must specify your "current" time zone. All events you schedule will be created in that time zone. Now, you could be tempted to leave your Google calendar in, say, CST, even when you fly out to the PST time zone. All your "times" will appear to be "correct" just like you entered them - but (just like option 2 in Apple's calendar app) if you rely on Google's text/email alarms - those alarms will be firing in whatever time zone the event is (so even though you are thinking about your 5pm appt as being 5pm PST, you've told Google it's 5pm CST, thus your alarm will fire 2 hours off of when you are expecting it). Additionally, if you send that meeting as an invite to someone else (or share your Google calendar with anyone), they will all see it as 5pm CST, not 5pm PST.

Google does give you 1 feature that Apple doesn't which is that you can lock a single calendar to a specific time zone. So if you live in CST and you often fly to PST, you can make a calendar that you use specifically for your PST appointments and just tell Google that your normal calendar is CST, but if you schedule any appointments on this one specific calendar, you will be specifying the times in PST.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit. I just didn't want you to be surprised when you moved to another calendar app that you'd discover it behaves just like Apple's does.

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148 replies

Sep 15, 2013 3:53 PM in response to chrismcs

hi chrismcs.

i read your article a long time ago when i first tried to tackle this. i am also looking at other calendar apps more recently.

do you happen to know if it is possible to solve this issue in iCal by setting Time Zone Support to "On", selecting the Time Zone of the event (so i don't have to convert time zones manually on paper) and to set the event to "floating"?! actually i can't recall if this is actually possible but - i mean, this seems like it should be really simple in that i want the ability to have an event show up on my calendar at the /actual/ time that it will take place in the /actual/ time zone that it is taking place (at all times) but to also be alerted with an alert at the correct time in the time zone that i am in (for instance if i am in the actual time zone of the event when it takes place).

i mean, barring some kind of programming oddities this does not seem like it would be terribly tricky to implement - particularly if they simply gave you an option to "Show Nominal Event Time and Show Current Time Zone Event Time" which would look something like this:

Return Flight

Jet Blue

9:15 PM EST (8:15 CST)

Alert 1: 1 hour before

Alert 2: 30 minutes before

with the parenthesis being the setting for Date and Time preference for "Time Zone" (...if they let you specify a "home" time zone instead of only letting you have my laptop "Set time zone automatically using current location" but i digress....).

this then /should/ alert me 30 minutes and an hour in advance of 9:15 PM if i am on the east cost and an hour and 30 minutes in advance of 8:15 PM if i am in central standard time zone...

seems like this would solve my and AnnieDin's problems pretty easily...

Dec 6, 2013 10:45 PM in response to vandana22

Sounds like MOST of us (travelers) want the same thing: that every appointment default to a fixed time that won't change when you go to another TZ. The rest (teleconferencers) want the opposite: appointments set to meeting time and converted to local time.

I think the Calendar app supports travelers with Time Zone Support "on" and set "floating" appointments. Am I missing something? Is it really this simple? This is what you do when you will travel. When you are staying put but want to teleconference or share calendars, you want to set the time zone for the physical location, convert to everyone else's local time.

Dec 7, 2013 11:03 PM in response to waldhaus1

Thanks for pointing that out. I have not yet tried entering a floating appointment on my iPhone. I've just started learning about solutions to the disconnect between the functionality we want and the behavior software engineers are giving us.

Some have suggested we live with it or move to a solution that works for us, as if this is a thing that can't be fixed. Software is as powerful and simple as the code, and the most infurating thing is that they're giving us what they think we should have rather than what we want. Classically Apple to do so, but THIS IS NOT WORKING FOR MOST OF US, most of us loyal Apple users (in my case, since 1984).

Admittedly, the issue is complex because it involves so many variables:

1. location and time zone of user when appointment entered

2. location and time zone where appointment will occur

3. location of user at the time of the appointment (traveling to vs. teleconferencing)

4. locations and time zones of user at beginning and end of appointment (specifically for travel across time zones, to correctly calculate durations while showing local times at both locations rather than the time in current time zone

It's so complex we can't even seem to agree on the terminology: some prefer "fixed" appointment time vs. "floating" time zone (equivalent concepts with opposite sounding names).

I believe what we need is to either select a default behavior/default mode for appointments with brief warnings for floating appointments ("if you travel to another time zone, this appointment will not correct for the new time zone"), or with every appointment set for a differen time zone, ask will you be traveling to the appointment or dialing in remotely. Or have appointments default to floating unless you call it "conference call," in which case it should automatically ask if you want to enter the time in your local time zone or in another time zone.

Ideally, Apple Mail should data mine emails to auto-populate air travel in our calendar, and all appointments that occur during a trip to a different time zone should default to floating, of course, overridable to a fixed time zone.

There's got to be a solution to this problem! Please help, Apple!

Dec 14, 2013 12:17 AM in response to David Ahn

Vandana22.... meant to respone back earlier, but hadn't.

Yes, it works without question. Sunrise Calendar App now has support for iCal, been out for about 3 months. I don't use iCal, so I don't know how it functions or interacts with Apple's botched Calendar(s).

I was giving this a bit of thought after seeing your comment, in the knowledge there would be Apple people who would continue to believe it can't be done or it is tricky.

There are two examples given, which supposedly make it difficult for Apple to fix with the idea they are a rarity (they are not).

1) Events that start in one time zone and end in another. FACT - this is not some super complex, new instance. Any flight itinerary one reads is formated this way if you cross time zones and has been done this way for ages. A flight itinerary does not tell you your departure AND arrival times in the time zone you start in, they tell you the start time in TZ 1 and finish time in TZ 2,

2) Setting meetings in different timezones, then traveling to that time zone and going to it on time. Google & Sunrise show you the time based on where you are at that time. That laptops don't automatically update to the local time zone, who's fault is that. No one's really... but we all know, if we want to operate off the local time zone, then we need to manually change it over or else any applications that go off the PC/laptop time will be wrong (iCal/Outlook/etc.) This alone is why I want a web-based calendar, not a calendar locked to a computer.

I don't know what else to say. Last I knew... every program has a contacts export function. Everything that is important to me is out on the cloud (calendar events, contacts, etc.) so I don't have to worry about ever losing it, I don't have to do any backups, and I can access/edit from any device/computer/internet access I have.

Feb 15, 2014 1:51 PM in response to D Hull

DH.

my understanding is that the settings i listed, along with pulling /each/ appointment down to "Floating" will let your appointment alert at the time you listed in the time zone you are in.

the issue from what i can gather is that you have to remember to manually pull down to set the appointment to default and that there is no way (not even a manual way) to set a Floating appointment on an iPhone.

regards

Feb 15, 2014 3:36 PM in response to IdrisSeabright

The problem as I recall it is that Mac's do not automatically update to a time zone when you arrive, which is the same as a PC based laptop. However, all phones do this windows, iPhones, etc. Therefore, Apple but a feature TZS into the computers to address this.... They also put TZS into iPhones, iPads, etc as well which is not needed bc being connected to cellular, the time automatically updates. Bc of it being on both the computer (which needs it apparently, I don't think it does) and also on the devices (which definitely do not need it), they don't play well with each other & all the problems start.

Don't worry about it on the Macs. Put it on your devices, try & play with it there. Ie create an event in Sunrise... Adjust TZs there, it's obvious. See how it reacts in your Macs. Know it will adjust correctly when you change TZs in person, based on what I am telling you. If you go somewhere in the flesh with your Mac.... Suck it up just like everyone else that had a laptop & has to manually adjust the computer clock.

Apple tried to make a solution. It doesn't work. They are not supporting it, nor will they fix or remove it.... There is nothing left to say.

Feb 16, 2014 6:45 AM in response to D Hull

It appears you don't understand how an electronic calendar works then and I can't help you. Why I've wasted hours in this discussion is beyond me. My problems ended instantly the moment I realized there was no reason I had to use iCal on my first & only iPhone (Apple device/comp) even though everything was saying I needed to use it.

Enjoy pulling your hair out. I've found something that works, absolute time, relative time, Santa Clause time, it doesn't matter, it works.

Outlook = iCal = gCal = electronic calendars

There is no PC version of Sunrise App either, bc you have a calendar interface on the computer called outlook or iCal that resides on the PC or Mac, OR you have access to iCal, gCal or Outlook (via Outlook Web Access (OWA)) thru a web browser & http address.

iPhones have a resident calendar program as well. If you don't like how it interfaces with your life or needs.... You don't have to use it.... Hence my suggestions of sunrise, as I bounce from one time zone to the next often, work with multiple calendars (read: your boss's calendar & your calendar) and I don't want to be late for a flight bc some calendar system can't figure out time zones. And yes, you do need to think about time zones, it's really not rocket science, but it must be considered in any event created and subsequently when it happens for all parties to be participating in it at the same absolute time regardless of what time zone they are physically in at THAT time.

Momkr

Level 1

8 points

Apr 30, 2014 2:24 PM in response to D Hull

Are you reading or listening, Apple? My use of Apple computers dates back to the mid-1980s. I agree with D Hull that

"It used to take Microsoft to take something as simple as wanting absolute times on a calendar and make it too complicated to understand."

I had the same problem as others relate on a recent trip two time zones away. Since then (including resetting several important appointment times), I have left Time Zone Support turned off. It seems ridiculous that the solution is to leave this feature turned off, but I won't know if this solved the problem until I travel again across time zones. I don't have the time or inclination to explore other solutions and/software. I already have way too many apps on my iPhone and iPad. By the way, I enter most appointments on my iPad or iPhone, rarely on one of the desktop computers or laptop - Most computer gurus predict that the Apple community is going in the direction of doing most, if not all things, on mobile devices!

It seems to me that this feature would be a good one for Apple to eliminate in the next update of the iOS, especially if the best and easiest "fix" is not to turn it on!

roberto

Level 1

37 points

Nov 16, 2015 9:05 AM in response to roberto

Addendum:

In addition to the OSX settings above, the following settings on mobile device, OS9...

1. Settings ―> General ―> Date & Time ―> Set Automatically (or set manually to the local zone you're in)

2. Settings ―> Mail, Contacts, Calendars ―> Calendars / Time Zone Override ―> Set manually to your home time zone (where you are when you schedule events)

Lexiepex

Level 6

14,108 points

Jan 22, 2013 7:05 AM in response to pinkfloyd1969

I agree pinkfloyd, do not turn on TimeZoneSupport.

Mar 6, 2013 8:08 AM in response to Beachbum33

Submit your feedback directly to Apple using the appropriate link on the Feedback page:

http://www.apple.com/feedback

Feb 15, 2014 2:38 PM in response to D Hull

Why can't Apple make "Floating" an option we can select in Preferences for all event postings?

mwestley

Level 1

1 points

Feb 13, 2013 11:44 AM in response to mesh-arc

I'm sorry to hear that it does not work for you. I believe apple has fixed this at iOS 6. When I turn on TZS and change my time zone to eastern instead of central, all of my calendar times show one hour later even though I am in the central time zone. When I change it back to central, my calendar shows central times again. That sounds like the behavior you're looking for.

Mar 6, 2013 7:58 AM in response to pinkfloyd1969

What is so hard about this? I don't want ANY TIME ZONE FEATURES AT ALL. I want the calendar to behave JUST LIKE A PAPER CALENDAR. If I indicate an appointment in Paris at 10:15, it shouldn't matter whether I made the appointment while in Paris, New York or Timbuktu. When I put the time in my calendar I MEAN LOCAL TIME, as in when I will be there. You would think turning Time Zone Support off on all of your devices would accomplish this, but IT DOES NOT. Whenever I cross timezones, my appointment times all change! I WANT NO ONE TO CHANGE A TIME I PUT IN MY CALENDAR EVER, FOR ANY REASON! How f'ing hard is this to get, Apple? I have seen and read hundreds of similar posts for years. I am heavily invested in Apple equipment, so changing to Google calendars will be a pain, but I'm close to doing just that. Please make this fix, and start listening to your customers. LET US OPT OUT OF ALL TIMEZONE FEATURES!!!

Mar 25, 2013 9:06 AM in response to mwestley

mwestly

When you say turn on time zone support do you mean in ical or the device clock or both. It would be nice if Apple had a knowledge base article explaining how thie various options work in osX and iOS, and how they interact.

The trouble with experimenting is that you run the risk of getting your calendar all screwed up.

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Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!