Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!

I've tried all kinds of combinations between my MacBook Pro iCal and my iPhone and it just doesn't work.

First, with iCal on my laptop, turning time zone support on gives the option of selecting which time zone to display and set events on the calendar. With support off, the calendar updates times depending on which time zone you're in. This makes no sense!!! If anything, the calendar times should stay fixed and not change at all if support is off. Turning support on should make the calendar adjust times.

Second, what's the point for entering times in different time zones anyway? If I have a meeting or a flight anywhere in the world, the time is the time no matter what. If I have travel to a different time zone and I set an event for 2 PM, that event will change time when I go to another time zone giving me the wrong time. If I set the event for 2 PM in a different time zone, it will diplay the wrong time in my current time zone.

Third, there is no option to start in one time zone and end in another. I fly all the time. If I turn time zone support on and set a time for a departing flight at 4 PM Eastern, there is no option to arrive at a time in another time zone, so the arrival time will be wrong when the calendar updates in the arriving time zone. If I turn support off, and set an event to start at 4 PM and travel an hour ahead, the calendar will then say the event is at 5 PM when it updates in the new time zone, which is wrong and I'll miss that event.

If I turn my laptop calendar time zone support and iPhone TZS both on or off, times keep getting screwed up. If one is on and one is off, it gets screwed up. Just as an example, to keep my laptop calendar to have the actual time of all my events no matter where I am, I turned time zone support on and set to Central time, where I live. With TZS off, all my times would change to one hour ahead when I go to the Eastern time zone which would screw up any event I would need to refer to. My iPhone has TZS on as well. I have a flight at 3:30 eastern arriving home at 4:30 central, but if I create the event in eastern at 3:30 there is no option to finish in central, so I would have to mark my arrival as 5:30 eastern. When I get home, my calendar would say I left at 2:30 and arrived at 4:30. If I had looked at my calendar before my trip to the eastern time zone, my calendar would say I'm leaving at 2:30, which is wrong for the zone I would leave from, but the arrival time is correct.

Now, with all TZS turned on, and my calendar set to central, and a 3:30 PM Eastern flight with a 24 hour advance alert, my phone alerted me at 4:30 Eastern of my 3:30 Eastern flight because my calendar was set to Central time, not Eastern. Had I had TZS turned off and entered the flight as 3:30, it would display at 4:30 when I arrived in Eastern and my departure and arrival time would be wrong when my calendar updated once in returned to Central and, while still in the Eastern zone, every single event in my calendar would be advance by one hour to reflect the Eastern zone and would be wrong for the actual time those events were to take place in Central, or any other time zone.

If I lived in New York and I traveled to Los Angeles and had an 8 AM meeting in LA, while in NY my calendar would say I had a 11 AM meeting if TZS was on and set to Eastern and wouldn't change to 8 until I manually selected the Pacific time zone. If TZS was off, my 8 AM meeting would display as 5 AM when I arrived in LA and the calendar updated automatically.

The whole system just makes no sense at all and serves no purpose that I can see. The time is the time regardless of where I am or what time zone I'm in. I will always be where I am and the time will always be the time. Why make it change? I want to look at my calendar and have the right time no matter where I am. Apple needs to fix this thing to either add multiple time zones for a single event's start and end time and display the time zone in the calendar or they need to get rid of time zone support altogether.

If anybody knows of a way to keep the calendar on both the computer and the iPhone to actually work in a manner that doesn't change times and will alert me to the actual time of events regardless of time zones I'd love to hear it. Outside of turning off location services, which will screw up every other app, I don't see a fix. Unless Apple give the option to turn of location services for iCal on the iPhone.

iPhone 4S, iOS 5.1.1, Aslo MacBook Pro 15 inch Early 2008

Posted on Jun 21, 2012 12:09 PM

Top-ranking reply

chrismcs

Level 1

0 points

Posted on Mar 6, 2013 8:45 AM

The problem, however, like I was mentioning in my last post - it doesn't matter what system you go to. Every calendar app you use (Google, Outlook, etc) will inherently want you to be more precise than your paper calendar because they are inherently different than a paper calendar. When you specify a time on ANY calendar app, you are inherently specifying a very precise point in time, not just a "time" (ie you are specifying that time in a given time zone) -- and this is a MUST for any calendar app to properly do its job (sharing calendars, meeting requests, etc). Think about it - if someone in a different time zone sends you a meeting request at "4pm", how in the world do you know when that appointment really is? Did they mean their time zone or yours? And if it were to appear at 4pm on both of your calendars, one of you is wrong.

Also - keep in mind...when you change time zones, the calendar is not changing when your appointment occurs..it's keeping it at the same exact point in time that you said it was - which is precisely why the time label changes when you go to a different time zone. Suppose you schedule an appointment at 5pm while in CST. If you fly to PST and the calendar still showed your appointment at 5pm, internally, it would have had to actually shift the start & end time of your appt by 2 hours (reschedule your alarms, etc).

Apple HAS given you three useful features already to navigate this: 1) with time zone support turned on, you can specify the time zone of the event you are scheduling -- so if you mean "4pm CST", you can set the time zone as part of setting the event (with time zone support turned off, Calendar just assumes you are specifying the time in the local time zone because it has no way of knowing otherwise). This is perhaps the most useful of all three features. 2) with time zone support on, you can lock all your calendar to a specific time zone. To me, this isn't a very useful feature because it would effectively make alarms useless to me while I travel. 3) You can use floating time zones where your events will shift to preserve the same "time" when you change time zones...Personally - I'd advise that you use those sparingly for alarm clock like features (like I want to run at 6am no matter where I am). I wouldn't advise using FTZ for scheduling appointments because you'll inadvertently end up making mess (consider the impact of all your appointments changing to an unexpected time because you have an unexpected business trip come up between now when when you thought you might be in a certain time zone).

You mentioned you wanted to switch to Google - but you'll have the same issue there as well. With Google, you must specify your "current" time zone. All events you schedule will be created in that time zone. Now, you could be tempted to leave your Google calendar in, say, CST, even when you fly out to the PST time zone. All your "times" will appear to be "correct" just like you entered them - but (just like option 2 in Apple's calendar app) if you rely on Google's text/email alarms - those alarms will be firing in whatever time zone the event is (so even though you are thinking about your 5pm appt as being 5pm PST, you've told Google it's 5pm CST, thus your alarm will fire 2 hours off of when you are expecting it). Additionally, if you send that meeting as an invite to someone else (or share your Google calendar with anyone), they will all see it as 5pm CST, not 5pm PST.

Google does give you 1 feature that Apple doesn't which is that you can lock a single calendar to a specific time zone. So if you live in CST and you often fly to PST, you can make a calendar that you use specifically for your PST appointments and just tell Google that your normal calendar is CST, but if you schedule any appointments on this one specific calendar, you will be specifying the times in PST.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit. I just didn't want you to be surprised when you moved to another calendar app that you'd discover it behaves just like Apple's does.

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148 replies

mesh-arc

Level 1

14 points

Mar 25, 2013 10:35 AM in response to chrismcs

It's funny, we start to get into a philosophy of time!

chrismcs, this seems to me very much an engineer's concept -- to be precise about what point in time we are talking about. In my view the ONLY time this is actually useful - pinpointing an actual time, then translating that into the local time of the individual users - is when planning a conference call/skype/gotomeeting/etc with participants from different time zones. That's the only case, and in that case I would be FINE with, say, a nominal time announced by the inviter (eg, 4:30 PST). BECAUSE if I am in NYC and you are in SF and we are planning to meet in person in SF, but we are planning the meeting prior to my trip, I need to translate when I make the appointment. That is, EITHER the meeting shows up in my calendar in PST or EST. If EST, my 4:30 meeting shows up in the calendar as 7:30. So if another friend says, hey, can you have dinner with me that night, I say no I can't I have a meeting at 7:30... no, wait I don't, that's actually.... 4:30, so OK!

95% of the time, what is important is the numerical time. So wherever you go, when you look forward to that appointment, you know what time it will be happening WHEN YOU ARE THERE.

Mar 25, 2013 2:09 PM in response to chrismcs

Does the floating time zone exist for the iOS version of ical? I know I can do floating time zones on osX. (I use busycal which has had that feature for a while, but I didn't think the feature was supported by iOS. Does iOS 6 incorporate that feature?

That would go a long ways towards solving my problem.

I also think having separate calendars for separate time zones would be a reasonable solution if apple offered that. Just for the sake of simplicity I am trying to stay within the apple eco system.

May 21, 2013 11:14 AM in response to Beachbum33

I couldn't agree with you more!!! I'm sick of making appointments in one time zone and then not being able to see the correct time when I'm in another time zone. It's a big mess! I may have to go back to a paper calendar!

Jun 4, 2013 11:08 AM in response to pinkfloyd1969

Here's another way of saying it...an example of what I want and I think what others want...

I am in New Mexico right now and I am making appointments for later in the year when I am in India.

Let's say I know there is an event happening (I'm making this up...) at 7pm in New Delhi on December 22nd. I want to be able to look on that date and see that I have something scheduled at 7pm. I don't want to see it as 6:30am which is the time (more or less) that it is in New Mexico when it's 7pm in New Delhi. I don't want to have to enter it in a different time zone..or change time zones back and forth.I just want to enter an event on a certain day at a certain time and have it remain that way no matter where I am.

Got that APPLE?

Jun 4, 2013 11:20 AM in response to vandana22

But that's decidedly not what I want. I want to create an event at 7 PM India time, and say in the event that it is India time. So when I get to India it will be right. However, when I'm in New Mexico I want THAT SAME EVENT to show 6:30 AM, because I need to call into that meeting from New Mexico, and if it appears on my calender at 7 PM either I have to do the mental arithmetic or I'll miss the meeting by 12 1/2 hours.

Jun 4, 2013 3:39 PM in response to IdrisSeabright

Actually Meg it's not easy enough! If it were easier to choose the time zone I might be willing to do it.

If I am scheduling many different things that are happening in different time zones (such as a flight with layovers) it's fairly complicated...compared to how easy most things are to do on the iphone...the author of this post is suggesting that this aspect of the phone needs improving upon and I agree!

Jul 8, 2013 7:39 PM in response to Beachbum33

Beachbum33 wrote:

I don't want ANY TIME ZONE FEATURES AT ALL. I want the calendar to behave JUST LIKE A PAPER CALENDAR.

Sounds like you should carry a paper-based diary instead of using iCal. At the moment you're using a screwdriver and yelling, "WHY DOESN'T THIS SCREWDRIVER BEHAVE LIKE A HAMMER?!? I JUST WANT IT TO BE LIKE MY OLD HAMMER!!"

So go grab yourself a hammer. Problem solved. *shrug*

Aug 31, 2013 2:29 PM in response to pinkfloyd1969

Here is what I want.

The time i enter should go into a Text or number cell and not be tied to a clock at all.

So when I'm at home in Mountain time and enter my appointment at 4pm in a place that is on pacific time no matter where I am in the world it says I am suppose to be there at 4pm.

Aug 31, 2013 2:36 PM in response to The real phdung

You can want what you want, but you aren't going to get it. You can try looking for a calendar app that does that, but I haven't seen one on any device in the 20 years I have been using PDAs and smart phones. Perhaps you should write such an app yourself.

Glue99

Level 1

0 points

Sep 12, 2013 8:07 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

Agree entirely that this is a simple solution for people who live, work, and play in different time zones.

Many years ago, my PalmPilot, using something called DateBk, handled everything seamlessly by simply recognizing that an event can occur in a time zone different from that in which I was located when entering the event, but that was in the old simple days....

Sep 15, 2013 5:24 PM in response to vandana22

hi. thanks very much.

in my case i have come to rely heavily on alerts so i need it to be correct in the time zone i am in so it will alert me. i also have to be able to rely on having it display the correct time whenever i am looking at the appointment.

i /thought/ i had gotten this to work after basically doing a ton of research and experimenting and my recollection was that it involved a combination of settings such as turning on time zone support on the laptop, turning on update to current time zone on the laptop, entering the event on the laptop with a pulldown to the actual time zone the event is in (with the actual time), and then setting the event to "float".

last time i checked this worked correctly in that it showed the correct time before i left, the phone updated to the current time zone of where i was, and the iCal event updated to show the correct time for the time the event.

if there is a logic (and if this did in fact work), pulling down to the actual time zone of the event set it, turning on time zone support let the laptop (or phone or whatever) update to the correct time, and setting to float let it show up in the original time zone as the correct time - well, nevermind. i mean, i just need instructions to make sure it is working (or not working as the case may be.

and then suggestions on getting onto something that does work will help.

Sep 16, 2013 4:40 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

hi HWT.

thanks for the good information. can i please follow up with you on this? i have a couple of items i need to tackle and if migrating to google for this is a simpler solution i would like to follow it though i am not all that familiar with google other than that i have a gmail account.

1. right now i access GMail using an IMAP account i set up in Mail on my iPhone. i also have Sparrow on my iPhone (and both my machines) and i access GMail with no iCloud sync for email because i am using IMAP. one of the really great things about this is that i am using a series of folders to store various information (such as incoming resumes) and this means that this data is accessible to all my devices irrespective of where i access the info. i can also move data to one of these folders which is quite nice. i went ahead and took someone's advice to get SpamSieve (i have a lot of email accounts) and in training spamsieve (recommended by mac users for spam) i can put bad email in a "bad" email folder in my GMail account and this trains SpamSieve to do this automatically. totally FWIW. but anyway.

2. i have a ton of contacts sorted into all kinds of categories/groups. i am using CardScan to handle this currently since many of these were originally Business Cards. this data is /almost/ all sorted and i would like to get it up to Linked-In and to use it in various ways. right now it is not synced to my Mac Contacts because my Mac Contacts are for daily needs and these will not sync to Mac Contacts while retaining the categories/groups. doing this without the categories/groups would be a nightmare. it would also probably trash my Mac Contacts which i need very much.

> Do you happen to know if this would be good to upload to Google Contacts? can i upload in a way that will retain categories/groups? also, are you indicating that you have a set of GOOGLE CONTACTS on your iPhone using the ADD ACCOUNT > OTHER > ADD CALDAV ACCOUNT section of the mail settings? if so, where do these show up on your iPhone? i would really find it very helpful to get my business contacts to my phone.

3. do you use Outlook? i was about to purchase it when i buy excel and i am curious to know if this will streamline some of this for me or if i can get an Outlook app for my iPhone.

4. are you using Google Calendar and not iCal in any way? if so, are you able to see and enter data in this calendar "natively" on your iphone?

thanks and apologies if you explained anything and i missed it.

i'd love to simplify some things over here as they are individually relatively small items but i am finding that they added up to a large mess for too long a time.

TIA

Sep 16, 2013 5:26 PM in response to hotwheels22

Hey HW!

A couple quick answers. Again I am brand new to any apple product use.

I use gmail exclusively and have two different accounts, one personal, one more professional. I use outlook for a 3rd work account, but sparingly... Not for calendar or contacts. Outlook ***** to be honest & requires storage of everything on your comp/exchange server... Aka as far as I'm concerned its like old storage of contacts on a SIM. Also for work, I don't even use the computer program version of outlook, I always login via the OWA (outlook web access)... That's a carry over from being issued a POS company laptop & not being given access to our internal servers. OWA works great if you've never tried it.

I too wanted groups in contacts, as I added folders for old or overseas contacts I didn't use regularly, and did so for both biz & personal. It was great with visibility options on an android phone, quick way to shorten a contact list drastically, but quickly have access by a few screen touches if needed. I'm pretty certain this is lost/not available with iContacts. It was a main reason I WAS opting to use the iCloud, but it does not appear to crossover. The only contacts that sync to iPhone contacts from gmail are those labeled 'my contacts' on gmail.... So one needs to put that label (gmail's default) onto them if you have them sub-grouped, but you don't have to take those sub-group labels off, just apply the default label too. It's crappy, but it seems limited by iContacts.

The set ups should be as I outlined above. Give them a try, if they don't work, easy enough to add the old back. I did try the google apps version for gmail, but since my accounts are working 'close to' as I need them, I've not reinstalled it.

Make sure to turn off iCloud setting of you try this.

I'm hoping the calendar will work as I'm hoping it will.

Cheers for now

Sep 16, 2013 7:22 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

hi hwt. thanks for your posts and your help.

i like being back on the mac very much but your posts and this iCal time zone issue reminds me that i have real needs that i have not been able to fix - despite a lot of trying - and it is making me really cranky. your usage is a little different than mine since i never did get hooked up in a corporate way while on PC so some of this i am having a hard time following.

can i just ask you if you are using GMAIL CONTACTS basically exclusively and if this is the case if you are somehow getting /some/ of these to appear in your iPhone in Contacts? i mean, presumably you have a whole host of contacts in Google Contacts and you are tagging the ones you want to access on your phone with the "my contacts" tag is that right?

then you are telling the CONTACTS app on the iPhone (Yes??) to SYNC with Google Contacts and this is the way you are set up?

i mean, i have contacts in Contacts being synced via iCloud and i have a huge amount of contacts in an app called Cardscan on my desktop Mac Pro. i would really like to get these contacts up to Google with their categories attached and i wouldn't mind having some kind of ability to get these into my iPhone instead of having to access these from a web page.

Sep 16, 2013 9:03 PM in response to hotwheels22

Sorry, I was writting on my phone before.

Please read over this thread for setup.... take note of rockmyplimsoul's comments as that works to set up contacts. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3997951?start=0&tstart=0

I am using gMail Contacts exclusively (I don't use my Outlook Contacts at all)

First off, if you want to import your contacts from elsewhere into gMail ---- Login to Gmail -> Contacts -> Import Contacts. You will see in Contacts the ability to form "New Group".

Your top level group is My Contacts. New contacts will automatically go into this list. Once you make a new group, select 1 or multiple contacts you want to add to your new group. Go to the 1+ Person Icon at the top, click it, select the group name and apply the group name you want. You may remove the "My Contacts" label if you wanted. However "My Contacts" is the only label that is recognized by the Contacts on the iPhone for syncing. Sub group contacts will not show up if they do not have the My Contact label as well. You can apply as many labels to any contact as you wanted.

Ok let's set up your iPhone for gMail Contact syncing.

Settings->Mail, Contacts, Calendars->Add Account->Other->Add CardDAV

Add your account info. Make sure Advanced Settings have Use SSL On & Port is 443

Settings->Mail, Contacts, Calendars (MCC)->iCloud -> Turn Contacts Off

Your iPhone contacts should now include all your gMail Contacts with the My Contacts label on them.

Now, create a new contact on you iPhone. Check your gMail Contacts.... it should populate.

If you had iCloud Contacts On... that new contact would go to your iContacts.

Now, if you had a second gMail account with Contacts. Set it up the same way. Once you have a second contacts account, an option comes up... Settings->MCC->scroll down to Contacts, and you will see Default Account--> all you contacts accounts will show up. This determines where new contacts will be created.

Contacts are now all set up. I'll start another post of gMail & gCal

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Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!