Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!

I've tried all kinds of combinations between my MacBook Pro iCal and my iPhone and it just doesn't work.

First, with iCal on my laptop, turning time zone support on gives the option of selecting which time zone to display and set events on the calendar. With support off, the calendar updates times depending on which time zone you're in. This makes no sense!!! If anything, the calendar times should stay fixed and not change at all if support is off. Turning support on should make the calendar adjust times.

Second, what's the point for entering times in different time zones anyway? If I have a meeting or a flight anywhere in the world, the time is the time no matter what. If I have travel to a different time zone and I set an event for 2 PM, that event will change time when I go to another time zone giving me the wrong time. If I set the event for 2 PM in a different time zone, it will diplay the wrong time in my current time zone.

Third, there is no option to start in one time zone and end in another. I fly all the time. If I turn time zone support on and set a time for a departing flight at 4 PM Eastern, there is no option to arrive at a time in another time zone, so the arrival time will be wrong when the calendar updates in the arriving time zone. If I turn support off, and set an event to start at 4 PM and travel an hour ahead, the calendar will then say the event is at 5 PM when it updates in the new time zone, which is wrong and I'll miss that event.

If I turn my laptop calendar time zone support and iPhone TZS both on or off, times keep getting screwed up. If one is on and one is off, it gets screwed up. Just as an example, to keep my laptop calendar to have the actual time of all my events no matter where I am, I turned time zone support on and set to Central time, where I live. With TZS off, all my times would change to one hour ahead when I go to the Eastern time zone which would screw up any event I would need to refer to. My iPhone has TZS on as well. I have a flight at 3:30 eastern arriving home at 4:30 central, but if I create the event in eastern at 3:30 there is no option to finish in central, so I would have to mark my arrival as 5:30 eastern. When I get home, my calendar would say I left at 2:30 and arrived at 4:30. If I had looked at my calendar before my trip to the eastern time zone, my calendar would say I'm leaving at 2:30, which is wrong for the zone I would leave from, but the arrival time is correct.

Now, with all TZS turned on, and my calendar set to central, and a 3:30 PM Eastern flight with a 24 hour advance alert, my phone alerted me at 4:30 Eastern of my 3:30 Eastern flight because my calendar was set to Central time, not Eastern. Had I had TZS turned off and entered the flight as 3:30, it would display at 4:30 when I arrived in Eastern and my departure and arrival time would be wrong when my calendar updated once in returned to Central and, while still in the Eastern zone, every single event in my calendar would be advance by one hour to reflect the Eastern zone and would be wrong for the actual time those events were to take place in Central, or any other time zone.

If I lived in New York and I traveled to Los Angeles and had an 8 AM meeting in LA, while in NY my calendar would say I had a 11 AM meeting if TZS was on and set to Eastern and wouldn't change to 8 until I manually selected the Pacific time zone. If TZS was off, my 8 AM meeting would display as 5 AM when I arrived in LA and the calendar updated automatically.

The whole system just makes no sense at all and serves no purpose that I can see. The time is the time regardless of where I am or what time zone I'm in. I will always be where I am and the time will always be the time. Why make it change? I want to look at my calendar and have the right time no matter where I am. Apple needs to fix this thing to either add multiple time zones for a single event's start and end time and display the time zone in the calendar or they need to get rid of time zone support altogether.

If anybody knows of a way to keep the calendar on both the computer and the iPhone to actually work in a manner that doesn't change times and will alert me to the actual time of events regardless of time zones I'd love to hear it. Outside of turning off location services, which will screw up every other app, I don't see a fix. Unless Apple give the option to turn of location services for iCal on the iPhone.

iPhone 4S, iOS 5.1.1, Aslo MacBook Pro 15 inch Early 2008

Posted on Jun 21, 2012 12:09 PM

Top-ranking reply

chrismcs

Level 1

0 points

Posted on Mar 6, 2013 8:45 AM

The problem, however, like I was mentioning in my last post - it doesn't matter what system you go to. Every calendar app you use (Google, Outlook, etc) will inherently want you to be more precise than your paper calendar because they are inherently different than a paper calendar. When you specify a time on ANY calendar app, you are inherently specifying a very precise point in time, not just a "time" (ie you are specifying that time in a given time zone) -- and this is a MUST for any calendar app to properly do its job (sharing calendars, meeting requests, etc). Think about it - if someone in a different time zone sends you a meeting request at "4pm", how in the world do you know when that appointment really is? Did they mean their time zone or yours? And if it were to appear at 4pm on both of your calendars, one of you is wrong.

Also - keep in mind...when you change time zones, the calendar is not changing when your appointment occurs..it's keeping it at the same exact point in time that you said it was - which is precisely why the time label changes when you go to a different time zone. Suppose you schedule an appointment at 5pm while in CST. If you fly to PST and the calendar still showed your appointment at 5pm, internally, it would have had to actually shift the start & end time of your appt by 2 hours (reschedule your alarms, etc).

Apple HAS given you three useful features already to navigate this: 1) with time zone support turned on, you can specify the time zone of the event you are scheduling -- so if you mean "4pm CST", you can set the time zone as part of setting the event (with time zone support turned off, Calendar just assumes you are specifying the time in the local time zone because it has no way of knowing otherwise). This is perhaps the most useful of all three features. 2) with time zone support on, you can lock all your calendar to a specific time zone. To me, this isn't a very useful feature because it would effectively make alarms useless to me while I travel. 3) You can use floating time zones where your events will shift to preserve the same "time" when you change time zones...Personally - I'd advise that you use those sparingly for alarm clock like features (like I want to run at 6am no matter where I am). I wouldn't advise using FTZ for scheduling appointments because you'll inadvertently end up making mess (consider the impact of all your appointments changing to an unexpected time because you have an unexpected business trip come up between now when when you thought you might be in a certain time zone).

You mentioned you wanted to switch to Google - but you'll have the same issue there as well. With Google, you must specify your "current" time zone. All events you schedule will be created in that time zone. Now, you could be tempted to leave your Google calendar in, say, CST, even when you fly out to the PST time zone. All your "times" will appear to be "correct" just like you entered them - but (just like option 2 in Apple's calendar app) if you rely on Google's text/email alarms - those alarms will be firing in whatever time zone the event is (so even though you are thinking about your 5pm appt as being 5pm PST, you've told Google it's 5pm CST, thus your alarm will fire 2 hours off of when you are expecting it). Additionally, if you send that meeting as an invite to someone else (or share your Google calendar with anyone), they will all see it as 5pm CST, not 5pm PST.

Google does give you 1 feature that Apple doesn't which is that you can lock a single calendar to a specific time zone. So if you live in CST and you often fly to PST, you can make a calendar that you use specifically for your PST appointments and just tell Google that your normal calendar is CST, but if you schedule any appointments on this one specific calendar, you will be specifying the times in PST.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit. I just didn't want you to be surprised when you moved to another calendar app that you'd discover it behaves just like Apple's does.

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148 replies

Sep 16, 2013 9:56 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

Also, worth note. I do not use Outlook Calendar either. I spent a lot of time trying to sync it both to gCal and to other shared Calendars (both Outlook & gCal) to no avail. Multiple time zones also appeared to be not supported or it might have been a huge hassle, can't remember.

gCal allowed for sharing calendars between multiple users (view only or edit permissions) and labels or color coding carried through the same for all users. Color coding or assigning "labels" were user specific (locked to the computer app/user defined) in Outlook.... so I gave up even bothering with the hassles.

Sep 20, 2013 6:28 AM in response to HansWorldTravels

hi hans,

thanks for these posts. they have been some of the most helpful on these issues over a period of years.

if you are able and things are going smooth with this app perhaps you can post back?

in the meantime i am going to try to find time to conquer contacts and then it would be very easy to get this app and finalize everything once and for all.

regards and BIG thanks.

Sep 24, 2013 9:41 AM in response to hotwheels22

Hot wheels, I just touched down in another time zone and it worked perfectly!

Now if only Google didn't axe a whole bunch of important features from gMaps in their latest version, life would be perfect.

Cheers

Nov 14, 2013 10:39 AM in response to HansWorldTravels

hi HWT.

thanks. old response here i know - but - the lowdown is that you have moved to SUNRISE app for your phone and computers and you are managing well with this in conjunction with Google Calendar is that right?

i'm so confused at this point i don't know whether to re-read this whole thread or what.

however, i do know that i /absolutely/ need ALERTS to go off at the correct time and to see the appointment displayed at the correct time no matter what i use and no matter where i am...

Dec 7, 2013 3:24 PM in response to David Ahn

The problem is that entering an appointment with a floating time zone isn't supported on the iPhone. It does now at least support floating when the appointment has been entered on a laptop or desktop. Since many appointments tend to be entered on the iPhone that becomes a problem.

Dec 11, 2013 1:19 PM in response to waldhaus1

hi waldhaus1, all.

would it be possible to get a summary of what works and doesn't work based upon actual user experience? this help documentation is hopeless in this respect and while i have read this thread about 20 times i am still at a loss as to what settings are required.

for instance, based upon your explanation i CAN live with the fact that the iphone does not allow me to set Floating appointments and i am assuming that i could for the time being work around this by setting appointments on the iphone and then /later/ assigning them as Floating on my laptop.

however, in order to trust that this is actually going to work - and in part because i don't want to have to do any more empirical testing before or while i am traveling - it would be SUPER to know which settings exactly i need to put down for my laptop (Maverick), desktop (Mountain Lion) and iPhone (latest OS).

i mean, presumably there is a short list of settings that i can check to make sure i have them set correct and then - assuming i make sure that each Appointment is set to the FLOATING pulldown i can get this to work across time zones...?

then the crowd can backcheck whatever it is that we come up with so we know we have it right?

THANKS

Dec 11, 2013 9:17 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

HansWorldTravels sounds like you are happy with Sunrise Calendar. Everything in the calendar stays the same when you switch time zones?

Just confirming because that's not what everyone wanted...but I do.

Dec 13, 2013 11:27 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

Hans, it's nice that your solution works for you, but many of us live in the Apple ecosystem that for the most part, works really well and syncs seamlessly. I do NOT use Gmail contacts or Google calendars, so Sunshine Calendar isn't going to work for me or anyone else.

This is a relatively hairy issue what with personal location vs. event location, current vs. future location, and time zone correction vs. static "text" time setting. But hey, if anyone can simply the complex, it's Apple, right?

Dec 17, 2013 1:47 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

The only solution I know of that works from both a phone and stand alone computer is to never change their time zone - to turn off clock updates as you travel.

It isn't clear to me why google calendar will work any better than iCal since it doesn't allow floating appointments.

Busycal for the mac does have floating time zone as an option as well as some other nice features. The rub is with scheduling from the phone since that doesn't seem to allow floating appointments.

It is true they can be edited and changed later from the desktop or laptop - but you need to remember to do that - computers are supposed to do that kind of work.

Having to enter the time zone for every event is a nuissance - particularly when traveling internationally and you would need to look up the destination time zone.

Dec 17, 2013 6:22 PM in response to waldhaus1

hi wh,

is this in fact the case?

i had thought that the consensus (such as it is) was that one /could/ turn on Time Zone Support on your laptop and set appointments (on the laptop or on the desktop) as FLOATING appointments or as TIME ZONE PULLDOWN appointments and that this in fact would allow appointments (and more importanly ALERTS on my iPhone) to show up at the correct time. is this not true?

the one caveat being that one cannot (yet i would hope...) set FLOATING appointments from the iPhone.

is this not the case? i mean, i am /sure/ that Google has this straightened ou on their implementation and it appears that HWT is using Sunrise Calendar for something important (cannot recall at the moment what this functionality gave him).

i would really like to stay with apple ecosystem on this - and the Mavericks iCal (and Reminders as well) are /super/ slick and look to have nice new added functionality - but it is totally inexusable to let me hang like this for a year and a half, let alone have me almost missing my appointments and/or return flight when traveling.

i mean, perhaps there are users that confirm that setting the appointments to FLOATING or as a Time Zone Pulldown will work with the caveat that you cannot do Floating appointments on the iPhone? or maybe this is not the case since i have to set appointments in the destination location in that time zone and this is the hink in the implementation that apple has been unable to resolve?

i mean, this is sort of my last post on this before moving fully and finally to Google for my travel calendar at the /very/ least.

thanks

Dec 17, 2013 7:20 PM in response to WagnerWorldwide

hi ww.

he-he. yeah, my first post on this ages ago was titled something like "Time Zone Support - What the what?!".

OK. so clarify one thing for me.

when you say Floating doesn't work on the iPhone are you saying that you cannot SET appointments to floating while on the phone? i mean, for the time being i (personally speaking) don't mind having to break out the laptop to set appointments to Floating IF IT WILL WORK on my iPhone when i am travelling.

i mean, is it possible that i can somehow SET appointments on the laptop and have this work?

to be honest i have tried this so many times and burned my brain cells so bad i cannot even thing about this without my brain going kablooey but does setting to Floating preclude me from giving it an actual time zone that is not the one i am in?

this sounds simple but i guess it is not possible to set an appointment to California time zone when i am in boston and on the laptop and to have this appointment adjust to the correct time (or not adjust or whatever) so that when i am physically in LA with my iPhone that my phone will alert me two hours in advance and at the correct time for my return flight...?

Dec 17, 2013 7:29 PM in response to HansWorldTravels

hi HWT.

i have been meaning to thank you again for all the good info and intel on this issue. i have to admit that i am sort of holding out hope that i can stay in the mac ecosystem for a lot of this. mavericks UI and (more importantly) functionality in iCal seems greatly improved and the Reminders app in Mavericks is something i can really see myself using.

am also hoping there may be a third party mac app that fixes most of this for me as i have been looking at fantastical to get my Reminders organized vis-a-vis Calendar and i have been looking at Azendoo for web collaboration. there was some MAC CALENDAR application that i was researching recently but i cannot remember the name. basically i was hoping for a "HD-centric" Mac Calendar App that would give me a little bit of integration across my devices and with scheduling and collaborating and my contacts and i was hoping that perhaps this software could also solve the Time Zone issue.

i took a look at sunrise and it looks good but i was hoping for a bit more of a mac look - i'm a bit of a suckeer for this and it is unlikely to change ; ) - anyway, in short i was sort of holding out hope for a software purchase that could integrate/implement some additional functionality in a productive way.

i /am/ moving to Google contacts once i get the time to organize this data and get it uploaded as this information seems more suited to Google and Contacts/Address Book/Mail experience for me has been nightmarish. i may also forward all my mail to google for this very same reason (Mail on 3 devices is a nightmare).

that said, i have been really holding out hope that i can keep the calendar reminder note taking functionality within the mac ecosystem but maybe i am pouring good time in after bad on this issue as well...

Dec 22, 2013 12:16 PM in response to hotwheels22

hi all.

considering a purchase of busycal or perhaps a move to google calendar but before i do this anyone suggest settings for the following variables i am finding. also, am i correct in thinking that i /can/ in fact use FLOATING appointments for events in other time zones with the single caveat that i cannot SET an appointment to Floating when making an appointment on the iPhone? or is there more to this issue than that?

MBP / Mavericks:

Settings > Date and Time > Date and Time Tab > Set Date and Time Automatically (currently set to ON)

Settings > Date and Time > Time Zone > Set Time Zone Automatically Using Current Location (currently set to ON)

Calendar > Preferences > Advanced > Turn on Time Zone Support (currently CHECKED)

iPhone / iOS7

Settings > General > Date and Time > Set Automatically (currently set to ON with “Time Zone” showing as "Chicago")

Settings > Mail, Contacts > Calendars > Time Zone Support (currently set to Houston)

Settings > Mail, Contacts > Calendars > Time Zone Support > Time Zone Support Slider (currently set to ON)

THANKS

D Hull

Level 1

19 points

Feb 5, 2014 5:26 PM in response to pinkfloyd1969

I want my calendar to work exactly the same as a paper calendar. I work as a musician, and it does me NO good to have my start times shifted—it's just confusing. I recently toured in Japan, and all my gigs on the calendar were shifted into another day; I had to start from scratch to put together a usable calendar on paper. I could have done that from the beginning if I'd known how screwy this thing is.

I do understand that it's current setup is convenient for some users, and that's fine, but isn't there some way that the times and dates that I put in there will stay in there and show up the way they're entered no matter where I am? That's what I need to see when I look at my calendar. There really is no useful alternative. There doesn't seem to be anything in the prefs that will change this.

Feb 15, 2014 1:49 PM in response to lvcarlson

hi lvc.

i totally agree. time zone default to floating would be huge.

if they can get this to be a default (or even an option) on IOS for the iPhone that would help.

also, if they can stop playing around with the alert settings in the OS and just let me keep a set of defaults like half hour and hour that i have on iOS on the iPhone it would be super.

i'm running ML, Mavericks and iOS and they all behave differently which is uber frustrating.

also, it would be great to get a confirmation that the settings i listed will in fact get you the behavior i need when setting an appointment to Floating. AFAIK it is entirely possible that if you screw up one of these settings it may not alert at the correct time when you travel. i'd much rather get a confirmation saying that these settings work then empirically testing it the next time i travel...

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Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!