Time Zone Support is STUPID!!!!!

Vandana22.... meant to respone back earlier, but hadn't.

Yes, it works without question. Sunrise Calendar App now has support for iCal, been out for about 3 months. I don't use iCal, so I don't know how it functions or interacts with Apple's botched Calendar(s).

I was giving this a bit of thought after seeing your comment, in the knowledge there would be Apple people who would continue to believe it can't be done or it is tricky.

There are two examples given, which supposedly make it difficult for Apple to fix with the idea they are a rarity (they are not).

1) Events that start in one time zone and end in another. FACT - this is not some super complex, new instance. Any flight itinerary one reads is formated this way if you cross time zones and has been done this way for ages. A flight itinerary does not tell you your departure AND arrival times in the time zone you start in, they tell you the start time in TZ 1 and finish time in TZ 2,

2) Setting meetings in different timezones, then traveling to that time zone and going to it on time. Google & Sunrise show you the time based on where you are at that time. That laptops don't automatically update to the local time zone, who's fault is that. No one's really... but we all know, if we want to operate off the local time zone, then we need to manually change it over or else any applications that go off the PC/laptop time will be wrong (iCal/Outlook/etc.) This alone is why I want a web-based calendar, not a calendar locked to a computer.

I don't know what else to say. Last I knew... every program has a contacts export function. Everything that is important to me is out on the cloud (calendar events, contacts, etc.) so I don't have to worry about ever losing it, I don't have to do any backups, and I can access/edit from any device/computer/internet access I have.

The only solution I know of that works from both a phone and stand alone computer is to never change their time zone - to turn off clock updates as you travel.

It isn't clear to me why google calendar will work any better than iCal since it doesn't allow floating appointments.

Busycal for the mac does have floating time zone as an option as well as some other nice features. The rub is with scheduling from the phone since that doesn't seem to allow floating appointments.

It is true they can be edited and changed later from the desktop or laptop - but you need to remember to do that - computers are supposed to do that kind of work.

Having to enter the time zone for every event is a nuissance - particularly when traveling internationally and you would need to look up the destination time zone.

hi wh,

is this in fact the case?

i had thought that the consensus (such as it is) was that one /could/ turn on Time Zone Support on your laptop and set appointments (on the laptop or on the desktop) as FLOATING appointments or as TIME ZONE PULLDOWN appointments and that this in fact would allow appointments (and more importanly ALERTS on my iPhone) to show up at the correct time. is this not true?

the one caveat being that one cannot (yet i would hope...) set FLOATING appointments from the iPhone.

is this not the case? i mean, i am /sure/ that Google has this straightened ou on their implementation and it appears that HWT is using Sunrise Calendar for something important (cannot recall at the moment what this functionality gave him).

i would really like to stay with apple ecosystem on this - and the Mavericks iCal (and Reminders as well) are /super/ slick and look to have nice new added functionality - but it is totally inexusable to let me hang like this for a year and a half, let alone have me almost missing my appointments and/or return flight when traveling.

i mean, perhaps there are users that confirm that setting the appointments to FLOATING or as a Time Zone Pulldown will work with the caveat that you cannot do Floating appointments on the iPhone? or maybe this is not the case since i have to set appointments in the destination location in that time zone and this is the hink in the implementation that apple has been unable to resolve?

i mean, this is sort of my last post on this before moving fully and finally to Google for my travel calendar at the /very/ least.

thanks

WH.... I think you are mistaken in what you wrote. To be honest, I don't even know what "floating" appointments are.... as I have no need or have never encountered them.

The reason gCal does not have a need... different than iCal or Outlook is the simple fact it is on the "cloud" web-based not directed by the computer. It "floats" whenever and wherever to the default TZ if I have not changed it (Mountain Time for me) when I go to other TZs. As I rarely use my comp to meet appointments on the road, I don't worry about changing clock time (TZ) on my comp... as I'm checking these things from the phone. If I were gone for a long time, I might change TZ/Clock on a comp... but still I don't look at it for meeting schedules/appointments.

As more and more people move to tablets/pads with GPS features that can automatically update TZ to do "work things"... the above Apple "problem" I think would become worse and as I understand it, the "floating" appointments would never be necessary.

To be honest, with Sunrise.... setting TZs for appointments couldn't be easier. Creating an event on Sunrise is even easier than gCal! You start typing in the address... it finds it for you like a Google search, and it's fast! That automatically sets it to that TZ. I believe they are using a hybrid address search from both Google Maps & FourSquare (which now has the most accurate geolocation database out there & what Instagram runs off of).

I've not created a 2 TZ event on Sunrise yet (flights) as I will put them in in gCal on the computer/laptop. Most airline pages now have an "export" to calendar function... making life very easy. I would use it if I wasn't a frequent traveler... however, wirth Delta (my primary carrier) it comes across as a single event regardless of the number of legs (1, 2, 3, etc) and I need/use the visual on my phone to see how much time I have for connections between flights... so I always break it out by flight leg.

I think I covered what I needed. HWs, you'll be very happy once you migrate over, trust me. It really is flawless, and since I've entered into this discussion, I've probably been on 50 flights, several countries and 6/7 TZ without a glitch. I just flew DEN - ATL - SAT (San Antonio) going from MST to EST to CST and then back... that should really mess with an event... but not a single problem. 🙂 Cheers

Hotwheels,

Yes, you're right that "floating" does the opposite of what its name suggests, and actually prevents appointments from floating, keeping them locked to the correct time, irrespective of your location on the globe. So it would be a solution to the timezone support debacle if not for the fact that this function isn't available on your iphone or ipad. Which is pretty much a deal-breaking caveat for me.

If they one day add this function to iOS, that will be a step in the right direction. It's still inconvenient to have to manually apply what amounts to a "don't screw this up" tag to each and every new appointment. Not screwing it up should be the default option. If it were possible to make "floating" the default timezone for every appointment I enter on every device, then the problem really would be solved.

I haven't had the oomph to switch over to Google-based calendar apps, so my solution has been to leave timezone support on, locked to the timezone I lived in when timezone support first reared its head. It's not where I live now, but if I change the timezone in my calendar, years worth of history changes with it. So, my calendar stays locked to one timezone, I live in another, I keep timezone support on, and my appointments stay where I put them. But I can't set alarms within the calendar because they go off at the wrong time, and if I use Siri to schedule something, I have to mentally adjust the hours or Siri (which references the actual location of the phone, not the timezone set in the calendar) will put the appointment in the wrong place. But at least a 1p lunch stays a 1p lunch, no matter where I happen to be when I check to see what time my lunch is next week.

How iCal developers could ignore this mess year after year comes down to arrogance, I guess. They must think, "the system works perfectly, if only you understood it."

hi ww.

he-he. yeah, my first post on this ages ago was titled something like "Time Zone Support - What the what?!".

OK. so clarify one thing for me.

when you say Floating doesn't work on the iPhone are you saying that you cannot SET appointments to floating while on the phone? i mean, for the time being i (personally speaking) don't mind having to break out the laptop to set appointments to Floating IF IT WILL WORK on my iPhone when i am travelling.

i mean, is it possible that i can somehow SET appointments on the laptop and have this work?

to be honest i have tried this so many times and burned my brain cells so bad i cannot even thing about this without my brain going kablooey but does setting to Floating preclude me from giving it an actual time zone that is not the one i am in?

this sounds simple but i guess it is not possible to set an appointment to California time zone when i am in boston and on the laptop and to have this appointment adjust to the correct time (or not adjust or whatever) so that when i am physically in LA with my iPhone that my phone will alert me two hours in advance and at the correct time for my return flight...?

hi HWT.

i have been meaning to thank you again for all the good info and intel on this issue. i have to admit that i am sort of holding out hope that i can stay in the mac ecosystem for a lot of this. mavericks UI and (more importantly) functionality in iCal seems greatly improved and the Reminders app in Mavericks is something i can really see myself using.

am also hoping there may be a third party mac app that fixes most of this for me as i have been looking at fantastical to get my Reminders organized vis-a-vis Calendar and i have been looking at Azendoo for web collaboration. there was some MAC CALENDAR application that i was researching recently but i cannot remember the name. basically i was hoping for a "HD-centric" Mac Calendar App that would give me a little bit of integration across my devices and with scheduling and collaborating and my contacts and i was hoping that perhaps this software could also solve the Time Zone issue.

i took a look at sunrise and it looks good but i was hoping for a bit more of a mac look - i'm a bit of a suckeer for this and it is unlikely to change ; ) - anyway, in short i was sort of holding out hope for a software purchase that could integrate/implement some additional functionality in a productive way.

i /am/ moving to Google contacts once i get the time to organize this data and get it uploaded as this information seems more suited to Google and Contacts/Address Book/Mail experience for me has been nightmarish. i may also forward all my mail to google for this very same reason (Mail on 3 devices is a nightmare).

that said, i have been really holding out hope that i can keep the calendar reminder note taking functionality within the mac ecosystem but maybe i am pouring good time in after bad on this issue as well...

hi all.

considering a purchase of busycal or perhaps a move to google calendar but before i do this anyone suggest settings for the following variables i am finding. also, am i correct in thinking that i /can/ in fact use FLOATING appointments for events in other time zones with the single caveat that i cannot SET an appointment to Floating when making an appointment on the iPhone? or is there more to this issue than that?

MBP / Mavericks:

Settings > Date and Time > Date and Time Tab > Set Date and Time Automatically (currently set to ON)

Settings > Date and Time > Time Zone > Set Time Zone Automatically Using Current Location (currently set to ON)

Calendar > Preferences > Advanced > Turn on Time Zone Support (currently CHECKED)

iPhone / iOS7

Settings > General > Date and Time > Set Automatically (currently set to ON with “Time Zone” showing as "Chicago")

Settings > Mail, Contacts > Calendars > Time Zone Support (currently set to Houston)

Settings > Mail, Contacts > Calendars > Time Zone Support > Time Zone Support Slider (currently set to ON)

THANKS

"Floating" . . . setting each event to "Floating" is the way I keep the time correct . . . the time in the time zone where the event will be occurring, not some other time zone where I may be when reading my iCal calendar.

Apple should make "Floating" an option that can be set as a default.

As it is now, each time I enter an event, I need to set the time to Floating; it would be nice if this were done for me automatically, which a default setting could do.

I want my calendar to work exactly the same as a paper calendar. I work as a musician, and it does me NO good to have my start times shifted—it's just confusing. I recently toured in Japan, and all my gigs on the calendar were shifted into another day; I had to start from scratch to put together a usable calendar on paper. I could have done that from the beginning if I'd known how screwy this thing is.

I do understand that it's current setup is convenient for some users, and that's fine, but isn't there some way that the times and dates that I put in there will stay in there and show up the way they're entered no matter where I am? That's what I need to see when I look at my calendar. There really is no useful alternative. There doesn't seem to be anything in the prefs that will change this.

D Hull I totally agree.

hi lvc.

i totally agree. time zone default to floating would be huge.

if they can get this to be a default (or even an option) on IOS for the iPhone that would help.

also, if they can stop playing around with the alert settings in the OS and just let me keep a set of defaults like half hour and hour that i have on iOS on the iPhone it would be super.

i'm running ML, Mavericks and iOS and they all behave differently which is uber frustrating.

also, it would be great to get a confirmation that the settings i listed will in fact get you the behavior i need when setting an appointment to Floating. AFAIK it is entirely possible that if you screw up one of these settings it may not alert at the correct time when you travel. i'd much rather get a confirmation saying that these settings work then empirically testing it the next time i travel...

DH.

my understanding is that the settings i listed, along with pulling /each/ appointment down to "Floating" will let your appointment alert at the time you listed in the time zone you are in.

the issue from what i can gather is that you have to remember to manually pull down to set the appointment to default and that there is no way (not even a manual way) to set a Floating appointment on an iPhone.

regards

Yeah, I know, and I use two different laptops and the phone and the cloud, which makes it a total nightmare. The other thing I've just discovered is that it adjusts for daylight savings time, too, so if you schedule something for noon but it's after the time changes it will adjust for that. I wish there was some way to just turn all those options OFF. I understand that some people use it that way and that's fine, but the Apple of old understood that we are not all the same and gave us many, many options for how to use various programs. Beyond frustrating.

If nothing else has been solved from this discussion, one thing should be certain.... Apple is not going to do anything to change this. If Apple's system doesn't work for you, find something else to meet your needs as Apple will never change it based on their users' repeated & exhaustive requests. It will not happen.... No matter how much pleading, or ******** all do. Cheers