logic pro 10

I'm looking for something similar to split by playhead position (which I already use) but instead crop or trim by playhead position.

To set the region end to the playhead position, use •Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position.

Or, just set a one pixel wide Marquee line (short click with the Marquee), and use Crop: then the rest (rightmost part) of the region will be trimmed away.

Logic doesn't let you trim away region start points just like that, probably because if a region contains MIDI, you can't set the region start to after the first MIDI event. So they have to reprogram Logic for this to be done in one click - or you need to reprogram your brain to use eg Crop instead, because Crop lets you trim a region start to after the first MIDI event. This would need an extra step.

Here's what I do: I just double-click where I want the trim with the Marquee Tool (which is my main tool). This splits the region right there, and then I remove the remaining, left part of the original region with Backspace.

You can also click on the region with Option and Command. This Marquee-selects the whole region. Then, edit the start of the Marquee selection with the shift key and the mouse, and press Crop. But what you want want is maybe a new key command which says "Crop Left"? Or something which just trims the nearest region border to the playhead?

I wasted 200 just to stay "compatible"

It is certainly the biggest waste of money. No innovation. Apple simply made it prettier and cheaper, + compatible with new os.

Should've stayed with 10.6.8, logic 8, and upgrade reason to 6.5 instead

Apple is too bust making iPod / iPad / iPhone & GarageBand >:-/

iJny9956 wrote:

It is certainly the biggest waste of money. No innovation. Apple simply made it prettier and cheaper, + compatible with new os.

While maybe not innovative, things like Varispeed, speed fades, flex time, Amp Sim, project import are all new to L9 over L8.

Apple made it prettier? Well, Amp Sim is pretty - but it's new, so it's not prettier. I guess the white border for panel focus is pretty... otherwise it looks exactly the same to me.

Cheaper? You're right about that. You're also the first person I've heard complain about it.

You make it sound as if L9 was developed just for compatibility with Mtn Lion, when it's been out for over 3 years. I think the upgrade would have cost more at that time - which would have been good - but had you upgraded then, all that would be needed now would be an update for the new OS, which unfortunately is free.

Should've stayed with 10.6.8, logic 8, and upgrade reason to 6.5 instead

Too late, Reason 6.5 is already $150 less than when it first came out, and I think the upgrade is even more discounted.

iJny9956 wrote:

Apple simply made it prettier and cheaper, + compatible with new os.

I'd pay more than $200 just for Flex. Logic 9 has 200 new features.

http://www.apple.com/logicpro/top-features/

ZXC wrote:

To set the region end to the playhead position, use •Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position.

This one did the trick, thanks. •Pickup Clock (Move Event to Playhead Position) is good to have, but unfortunately Go To Selection End seems not to work with short regions, it goes to the nearest beat instead of the end of the region.

Is there any way to get the arrange window to show both tracks of a stereo file? Other than that the arrange isn't terrible for audio editing but that makes it fairly useless. Zooming is very limited too. And the sample editor window is a mess, even trying to select a chunk of audio there and playing it is so convoluted, not to mention being limited to editing one audio file and region at a time that way. I don't want to have to deal with a separate window at all, just do it in the arrange since most editing is in the context of the full track anyway. Definitely enough limitations to keep me away from doing all but the most basic audio editing, hopefully some major improvements in L10.

Mike Connelly wrote:

Go To Selection End seems not to work with short regions, it goes to the nearest beat instead of the end of the region.

I just re-checked this, and found that you are close to being right: Go To Selection End doesn't work with regions which are shorter than 1/16th note. I had never tried that before. I also just found that if you press Paste several times in a row for really short regions, Logic doesn't automatically move the Playhead to the end of the selection after each Paste.

Is there any way to get the arrange window to show both tracks of a stereo file?

I believe Logic already does that in Arrange, but not the way you want it, I guess: the upper part of the wave you see is the left side of a stereo track, the lower part is the right side.

Zooming is very limited too.

How?

trying to select a chunk of audio there and playing it is so convoluted

I just make a selection and press the speaker icon or use the Play/Stop Selection key command. What kind of problems do you have? Please elaborate.

the sample editor window is a mess

Other examples?

not to mention being limited to editing one audio file and region at a time that way.

Having a dedicated sample editor window has it's pros and cons. There are things you can do with many regions/files in one operation, like converting them to new unique files (in Arrange), or to new files with other sample rate/bit depth/file format/dither type/stereo status (in the Audio Bin), and you can batch delete/optimize/move/backup multiple files in one operation, but I agree that improved batch processing could be good, although I don't remember exactly what I'd use it for. :-)

I'm not crazy about the way stereo files are displayed but I guess it's better than nothing.

Zooming is limited meaning the maximum size of a wave file in the arrange is fairly small. For detailed editing, I'd like the option to zoom it to full screen if needed.

In the sample editing window, it looks like the only play/stop key command options are from the start of the file or start of the region. The speaker button plays the selection (labeled as "prelisten") but I couldn't find a key command for that, is there one?

The one upside I see to a separate audio editing window is the ability to listen to audio that's outside of a region and create new regions from that. But even that is convoluted, when a new region is created I don't see a way to put it in the arrange window directly, I have to go find that region in a third window and get it from there. Maybe it's possible to do things like normalizing multiple files or regions at once, but if it is, it's certainly not easy to find.

And yet another thing, in the sample window, if I change the length of a region, I can't undo it. Right there that's enough to make me avoid editing audio in that window (or Logic).

Mike Connelly wrote:

Zooming is limited meaning the maximum size of a wave file in the arrange is fairly small. For detailed editing, I'd like the option to zoom it to full screen if needed.

So - the zooming itself isn't may not be the problem but you don't like the mex setting for region height in Arrange... fair enough. Personally, I haven't missed it - maybe because I'm used to it, or because there isn't much vertical editing you can do in Arrange anyway. The important part for me is to be able to stretch out the view of a region horizontally.

The speaker button plays the selection (labeled as "prelisten") but I couldn't find a key command for that, is there one?

Sure, just search for Play/Stop Selection in the key command window. That command is common for "windows showing audio files", which makes sense. If you have worked in Logic for a long time without using it, I can see your frustration of not being aware of this option! :-)

The one upside I see to a separate audio editing window is the ability to listen to audio that's outside of a region and create new regions from that.

Plus - you can have a dedicated set of menu options for sample editing, and dedicated key commands. And you can click on any region in Arrange and automatically have a close-up view of that region in the Sample Editor, a dedicated Undo list of 10,000 steps, the ability to store the sample edit undo activity after you have closed the song, and more.

But even that is convoluted, when a new region is created I don't see a way to put it in the arrange window directly, I have to go find that region in a third window and get it from there.

The typical Logic workflow would be to isolate - and, if needed, create a new region in Arrange first, and then edit it in the Sample Editor, I guess. But to be able to grab a selection from the sample editor and copy it into the Arrange window window could be nice. Can Cubase do that?

Maybe it's possible to do things like normalizing multiple files or regions at once, but if it is, it's certainly not easy to find.

Well, since everything which has to do with editing multiple files happens in the main Audio Bin (which shows multiple files), and not the sample editor (which deals with one file at the time), the logical place to put the an option to convert multiple files would be in the Audio Bin. Look there, in the file menu, for "Copy/Concert files...". It's in the menu called Audio Files.

The first thing I do if I want to learn a new program, is to have a look at all the options in all the menus. With all Logic's options, maybe going through such an initiation ritual is more than just a good idea, because even if one may not understand all these commands first time one sees them, a bell could ring some months later if there's a need for a special feature.

And yet another thing, in the sample window, if I change the length of a region, I can't undo it. Right there that's enough to make me avoid editing audio in that window (or Logic).

You actually can - and not only that, you can Undo the selection you make in the sample editor as well (unless this feature is disabled in Preferences). (The same is true for your Normalize activities.)

One of the first features I got used to using in the Sample Editor was "Selection>Region". If you aren't used to using that command (or have Undo Selection enabled), the Undo region length process becomes a littleobscure, because it's a two step process.

Instead of having one Undo for Region Length and one for Selection Length stores as two separate undo operations, you need to press Undo to undo your selection length, and then use Selection>Region in order to Undo rgion length. This works because if you Undo region length in the Sample Editor, the selection is automatically changed as well. The good thing about this way of doing it is that that if you do this a lot, you can control two Undo actions with only one stored Undo step, and the bad thing is that people who aren't used to edit audio in Logic may not know of this solution.

I don't know if the default setting for Logic is to store selection changes in the Undo-list or not. If the default is to have that option off, Logic should definitely store region length change in the Undo list. It probably should offer that option anyway, because Logic can store all these Undo steps for the Sample Editor, and keep the Undo list intact even if you close the song and quit Logic.

If I remember right, you mainly work in Cubase, but should you do some more audio editing in Logic, I really recommend getting used to the Selection>Region command. The "Set..." menu inside the Sample Editor's Edit menu also contains some really great options.

Sure, just search for Play/Stop Selection in the key command window. That command is common for "windows showing audio files", which makes sense.

Which only seems to work in the sample editor (the arrange window shows audio files, but it doesn't work there - which windows specifically does it apply to?). There are "global" key commands, why don't those work globally instead of just some arbitrary hodgepodge of windows? And if some windows require their own custom key commands, why are some key command options not available for those windows? I suppose someone may want different key commands for the different play options in every window, but it seems like it should be much much easier to get key commands to behave the same if that's what is wanted. Especially when trying to set the same key command in mulitple places usually gets a warning message.

Plus - you can have a dedicated set of menu options for sample editing, and dedicated key commands.

It makes sense to have additional KC for functions only available in that window, but I don't see the point of having different KC for the same function depending on what window it is.

In general it's great to be able to customize key commands, but the problem with Logic is that so many of them behave differently in different windows and overlap or conflict, it's very complicated trying to figure out how to get it all working across the whole app instead of having some windows off in their own little world.

a dedicated Undo list of 10,000 steps

I'm skeptical how useful a separate undo list is anyway, but even if it were, it's undermined by the lack of a separate undo list, not to mention that all the edits in that list also appear in the main undo list as well. Plus much of the time redo isn't available. Frankly I'd rather see Apple simplify and dump the separate list if it helps them get undo working better overall.

an option to convert multiple files would be in the Audio Bin.

There it is, thanks. But I don't see a normalize function there (or really any function that affects the audio at all). And the functions available can only be used on full files, not regions. That's just bare bones functionallity.

Instead of having one Undo for Region Length and one for Selection Length stores as two separate undo operations, you need to press Undo to undo your selection length, and then use Selection>Region in order to Undo rgion length.

If it can't be undone with "undo", that's a bug requiring a workaround. Undo should never require an additional separate command, and it especially shouldn't require knowing some obscure procedure instead of just hitting command Z.

If I remember right, you mainly work in Cubase, but should you do some more audio editing in Logic

Mainly Pro Tools for audio heavy stuff (and for a long time Soundtrack Pro). And spending more time trying to edit in Logic isn't going to help, the more I dig into it the more I find that what I want to do simply can't be done.

Mike Connelly wrote:

Which only seems to work in the sample editor (the arrange window shows audio files, but it doesn't work there - which windows specifically does it apply to?).

TThat key commands applies to the (main) Audio Bin, the little Audio Bin the the Media Area, of course the Sample Editor and in Arrange, but only for Arrange: only for or a (Marquee) selection, which makes sense if you think about it.

There are "global" key commands, why don't those work globally

The global commands work globally, this Play/Stop Selection is for when you want to play only an isolated selection, like eg a selection in the Sample Editor and therefore not use the global Play command which plays the Marquee selection in Arrange. Or play the whole song from the playhead position, if no Attange (Marquee) selection had been made. It's very useful to have both play options*, but if you don't want that, assign both to the same key. This ain't GarageBand, you know - there are lots of advanced options for people who need them. And - mor importantly: All the key commands you don't need can be ignored, of course, just like all the songs on iTunes you don't want to listen to. :-)

* Logic has lots of play options, and while you may ignore almost all of them if you like, here are the key command based play options:

-------Global Commands------

•Discard Recording and Return to Last Play Position

•Capture as Recording and Play

Play

Play or Stop

Stop or Play From Last Position

Play or Stop and Go to Last Locate Position

•Play from Beginning

•Play from Previous Bar

•Play from Left Locator

•Play from Right Locator

•Play from Left Window Edge

•Set Locators and Play

•Set Rounded Locators and Play

•Set Rounded Locators and Cycle Play

•Play from Selection

-------- Windows showing audio files --------

Play/Stop Selection

-------- Sample Edit Window --------

•Play/Stop All

•Play/Stop Region

•Play/Stop Region to Anchor

•Play/Stop Region from Anchor

Selection Start and End to Previous Transient and Play

Selection Start and End to Next Transient and Play

I'm skeptical how useful a separate undo list is anyway

Skeptical or not, two separate sets of Undo history is very useful when you need it. If you don't need them, just don't use them, and make sure your setting are set in such away that not a lot of Undo steps are stored or saved with the project.

But: one main benefit of Logic having 1000-1100 key commands is that Logic can be adjusted to work well for users of several other DAWs quite succesfully, while eg. PT can't be set to emulate Logic's key commands, because PT just isn't as configurable as Logic, key-command-wise.

not to mention that all the edits in that list also appear in the main undo list as well.

No, they don't... And here is how it's great: If your main Undo step list is set to remember only 10 steps, and the Sample Editor is set to undo 200 steps, you can undo 200 steps back in the Sample Editor, while these 200 steps will not appear in the main Undo function at all. The last 10 will. This feature has saved people several times, especially since it may be stored with the project. The main Undo feature is broken once you close and open a song, while the Sample Editor Undo feature can be set to NOT clear Undo History when a project is closed. You can also define a special folder or disk for all your Undo steps in the Sample Editor.

But I don't see a normalize function there (or really any function that affects the audio at all).

All these options (Split to Interleaved, Sample Rate Conversion etc) affect audio. :-) There's no batch normalize in there, and - you are right, these are file operations - not region operations. If you want to export a region with normalize, you currently need to do it in Arrange from the Export menu (or through bouncing), with or without effects, trails or volume/pan automation (use the Contexual region menu). I have a feeling that these options will be streamlined in the future, but thanks to the contextual menus, and the ability to search for menu text in the help menu, and because key commands are searchable - these options aren't really that hard to find.

I'll give a specific example. I like to use Play or Stop and Go to Last Locate Position, works how I want it in Arrange and most other windows other than Sample, I assume because technically clicking in that window isn't a "position".

So I assign Play/Stop Selection to the same key command, seems like it should work since it only applies to windows that don't have a locate position. And it works OK in Sample, and in windows like Piano Roll it follows Play or Stop and Go to Last Locate Position. But in arrange it doesn't go to last locate position, nor does it play from selection, it just functions as stop/play.

That's just two key commands, seems fairly simple yet it still doesn't work in a way that makes sense (although I assume there's some convoluted reasoning why it's supposed to be that way).

No, they don't...

Well, I'm seeing them in my main undo menu at least some of the time, when I change selection in Sample I see Undo Change Selection under my main Edit menu. It does switch to the previous undo if I click in the arrange window, not sure the reasoning behind that.

Mike Connelly wrote:

So I assign Play/Stop Selection to the same key command, seems like it should work since it only applies to windows that don't have a locate position.

Play/Stop Selection works in Arrange also, if Arrange is the focused window. But this doesn't mean that it will start to behave like something else than Play/Stop Selection - eg., it won't work like "Play or Stop and Go To Last Location". It only means that you can have a "play/stop selection" in both Arrange/Sample Editor, but not "play and stop and go back to last location" in both windows.

Here's how I have set it up, and it works brilliantly: I have Spacebar as "Play or Stop". I have "-" as "Play/Stop Selection". I have Return as Stop. But by performing a long click on the Stop button, I have assigned it to "Stop and Go To Last Locate position".

In other words: If I want to stop without going back to last locate position", I press Space again (during play). A click on the Return key (during stop) takes me back to the song start, because I have assigned it this way in the Stop menu.

By using "-" in the Sample Editor, I can play only the selection there instead of playing the song globally, which would happen if the sample editor was governed by a global play/stop command.

If I, during play, want to both stop and go back to last locate position, I don't press Spacebar a second time, I press return.

But in arrange it doesn't go to last locate position

Precisely! See above.

nor does it play from selection

Good, because there's a dedicated option for that, and "Play selection" is diffrent from "Play from selection" anyway. If there is a (Marquee) selectin in arrange, Play/Stop selection will play that selection (once, and stop)*. If there isn't, it will do it's best to do what you think it wants, and just play. But after having tried various combinations of these options over time, the setup I just described gives me the most control. If you want to play from selection in Arrange, use the Play from Selection key...

it just functions as stop/play.

Yep, because there is no Marquee selection.

*You can also adjust how the play button works. If you set it to play Marquee selection, it does that if there is a Marquee selection. If not, Logic tries to execute the next option on the play-menu list (long click on the play button). This could be Play Cycle, Play from Selected Region, or Play from Last Locate Position. And again: we're not talking about key command shere, but how you can configure the play and stop buttons.

And of course: sinc you both can assign your own key commands, and assign how play/stop works, these can get confusing. But you don't need to use any of these options, or set them once and forget them.

No, they don't...

Well, I'm seeing them in my main undo menu at least some of the time, when I change selection in Sample I see Undo Change Selection under my main Edit menu. It does switch to the previous undo if I click in the arrange window, not sure the reasoning behind that.

Yes, the edits from the sample editor will show up in the main Undo menu as long as it's set to show enough of th eundo history to include them, which is good. The point is that the extra undo features for the sampe editor gives people who want them options to save up to 10,000 Undo steps, plus the other kind of control I already mentioned.

Logic is really well planned, and it get's more logical and consistent for every major update. Some people don't like this, because they want the kind of behavior Logic had ** years ago. But if you mainly us Pro Tools, and want Logic to behave exactly like Pro Tools, you have a problem - I'm sure Apple and the Logic developers plan isn't to make a cheap version of PT. At least three of the main developers are also doctors (in physics, possibly medicice and something I have forgotten), and as such, are used to look at a large amount of "material'/options, and make some educated choices. I'm pretty sure that instead of trying to copy PT, Live, Cubase or som emixing console, they want to make something better.

They also implement stuff in a way which usually means that you don't need to deal with more features or options than you want to. But with all due resect - you seem a bit unhappy with Logic, and also to have missed some essential options, so why not just stick to Pro Tools? ;-) When I sold my last PT rig, I stopped using PT forums, because I had found a better solution. If you don't think Logic is a better solution, why spend energy on what you describe as convulted solutions instead of spending more time with PT and get rich(er) / (more) popular / (more) famous? :-)))

Maybe "Play/Stop Selection" should be called "Play/Stop Selection, if there is one, and region selection in Arrange doesn't count". :-) And maybe "Windows showing audio files" should be called "Sample Editor and the two Audio Bins + a special solution for Arrange". My humble advice is to forget the formalities, and realize that you either should be able to configure Logic to work the way you want it to, or just use something else.

Most annoying bug for me in Logic9 is that the arppegiator function in the environment doesn't work in real time. It's only useful for post arpeggiating recorded midi data. Absolutely frigging discraceful! Get it sorted Apple!!!

It's a good job The Beatles didn't complain as much about 4-track recording as people do with modern DAW's.

Good, because there's a dedicated option for that, and "Play selection" is diffrent from "Play from selection" anyway. If there is a (Marquee) selectin in arrange, Play/Stop selection will play that selection (once, and stop)*.

So what you're saying is "play selection" doesn't actually mean "play selection", it means "play marquee selection". But "play from selection" really does mean "play from selection", it also works for selected regions. I guess that would explain much of the problem - some of the KC just aren't labeled accurately.

Dare I say it, but "play selection" should play the selection. I don't need to reference any other app or earlier version of logic to see that if it doesn't do that, the KC is either broken or named wrong.

I'm not looking for Logic to work just like PT, I'm just trying to get things to work in a way that makes sense to me. That would probably be much easier if the KC were actually labled such that they said what they actually do. And I actually use Logic more than PT - I do think it's a better app for midi, and I just use PT for audio editing since it has those features I want that Logic lacks.

Maybe "Play/Stop Selection" should be called "Play/Stop Selection, if there is one, and region selection in Arrange doesn't count". :-) And maybe "Windows showing audio files" should be called "Sample Editor and the two Audio Bins + a special solution for Arrange".

Honestly, right there is a better example of how unnecessarily convoluted Logic is than anything I've posted.