logic pro 10

haha You came with me! You wild card.

Or maybe I just couldn't make up my mind in the 90's! Funny how I went from the C64 to a 4track tape then back to Cubasis!

Logic's been the most consistent and strongest throughout for music production/creation though and for bending sounds right out of shape without having to spend dosh on plug ins.

This year though, I'm loving Albeton and/or also the simple old Kaoss Pad; because they make me write in a different way and come up with different ideas. It's always good to have several differing approaches to writing. I don't think i've actually sequenced anything in a while; just playing the notes in… like a real musician 😉

just cooked a new song up on soundcloud.com/andybird-1 in case you're up there too… link up! Always good to hear what's poppin in our little corner!

Bakernator wrote:

the most part of what I enjoy teaching those who are new to PT is the smart tool.

You should try Logic 9 then. ;-)

But first of all: When I finally sold my PT rig after having been updating it year after year, it wasn't because I disliked PT - I just didn't need it anymore. I had the rig only to avoid latency and to get some extra DSP. Logic - especially after the Logic 9 update, is doing a lot of the things people used to need PT for, and was even audio-quantizing long before PT did. I'm sure both PT and Cubase are great DAWs, but have the feeling that right now, Cubase is a stronger rival than PT, for a number of reasons: Track folders, VST Note Expressions, the Arrange track which lets you reorganize songs (without needing to use region folders like in Logic), a better Score editor...

Back to the smart tool: Logic doesn't have one smart tool, but you can define how smart the main tool shall be in Logic 9 (for fades and "Marquee" editing), and it has also become a lot smarter under the hood, in that eg. the pointer tool in Arrange or the pencil tool in the Piano Roll can do all kinds of edits. This clip shows some of these improvents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOtuWKDbn_E&feature=plcp

By all means - this isn't about defending Logic. And even when it comes to ease of use and workflow - it's possible to describe the differences. Of course PT and Cubase are better than Logic in some areas. Cubase is cross-platform and probably also has more users than Logic (and than PT). I know enough about Cubase to know that many Cubase users miss things Logic has (like group automation, the 'smart'/dual channel strip in the Inspector in Arrange, the consolidated window solution, better performance on Mac, better included plugs, the stereo/mono/surround switch on channel strips, easier way to hide tracks or groups of tracks, bounce MIDI regions to audio, visual equalizing etc*), which makes me curious about what it is that Cubase does better than Logic today. I conducted a comparative test between all the major DAWs once, along with some Cubase users (their conclusion was that Logic was better than Cubase!), but this was many years ago.

* Maybe some of these things may have been adressed in Cubase 6.5?

Listing differences doesn't mean that one DAW is better than the other. I don't say that Logic is better than Cubase, and even worse: I'm not really interested in that topic. I know Logic too well to want to spend energy on learning Cubase anyway, and I'm done with Avid. I'm just curious about other DAWs, especially when someone claims that they clearly are superior to Logic.

I don't think i've actually sequenced anything in a while; just playing the notes in… like a real musician 😉

I envy your musicianship, I played drums in a symphony orchestra back in highschool and a rock band, but migrated to sequencing in Cubase as a teen and turned to digital music after I was the only one turning up to band practice, well, that and when they did turn up i got sick of the quitarist turning everything into a self promoting guitar solo .. puke.

So as a drummer I'm not much of a musician, but DAWs allow me to create the same end product as musicians, they're too different crafts baring the same output, but **** I wish I shared your talent, I envy keyboardists with a passion.

Looked you up, hey we have so much in common too, I turned to motion graphics back in 2009 when I got jack of the sinking music industry. Run my own production company, so many parrelells. Here's mine http://soundcloud.com/kcb_sydney all Protools megamixes I'm afraid.

But here's some of my electronic stuff doen in LOGIC, I go under many alias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOjkEfKAamw&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GagIwBsHZhg&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WeZFBSAoSw&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJK4utIqYoE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQ_ob3KE8Y&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTimuj65Fuo&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7ODVKvKKY&feature=plcp

THAT's what I love to see.

And how dare you! 😉 We're from the same drumming background but I had Celtic, Orchestral and Funk in there. Toms were nearly ALWAYS tuned to Eflat!

Being from UK we all we're forced to learn Piano and a woodwind instrument then on top of that, Dad played Jean Michelle Jarre, Tchaikovski, Clannaad and War of the Worlds a LOT and I can now hear those influences when listening through the cloud.

I don't agree that 'two different crafts bearing the same output' (spelling of 'too' see me after class) because us old school producers can spot a 'DAW producer' in the first few notes but you can use that to an advantage.

Myself, I struggled with any sort of House/ Electronic beat production for yeeeears becuase I was too MUCH of a muso and wrote like I was tuning and playing. So I had to listen and study HARD just to make basic electronic beats however, in between those two paradigms something different happened and I hope it's interesting. Time to hit the road.

This kind of music-geeking is what I love this forum for. Too often it's just about fixing a problem in session! … although my menu's STILL bloody dissapear in 64bit mode! dam it.

Thanks for the links! Leave them up please… I love to hear what peeps are doing… Hit me up for some Sync! 😉

Time to really hit the road (or … tubes (London)).

www.andybird.net wrote:

I don't agree that 'two different crafts bearing the same output' (spelling of 'too' see me after class) because us old school producers can spot a 'DAW producer' in the first few notes but you can use that to an advantage.

Noooo don't go raising that debate, we'll be here another 2 hours challenging our views, and really, neither of us are wrong given the vairables and certain industry models. We can agree to dis-agree on this.

This kind of music-geeking is what I love this forum for.

Talking to strangers is great. But when it comes to ultimate Geeking out, one most know Superman will always destroy Batman in a fight.

I'm done hijacking the thread, everyone enjoy Logic, and here's to LogicX some time soon.

Oh no! Sorry i was unclear! How rrrude!

I meant to backup the point that ALL approaches are important: software/ musicianship whatever.

Thy don't have the same output which is why by using SEVERAL different approaches to creativity will enrich your projects greatly. its never too late to learn another skill.

All of our current synch composers in the UK are old rockers who embraced orchestration and tech.

Throughly recommend listening to Monsters OST and Hopkins multi-faceted approach using our beloved and much more.

Logic X will certainly bring new creative tools but most likely change the way we work.

My ONLY concern is that apple are making software increasingly incompatible with the rest of the production world.

Great thread everyone... some high end geeking going on.

ZXC wrote:

* Maybe some of these things may have been adressed in Cubase 6.5?

Listing differences doesn't mean that one DAW is better than the other. I don't say that Logic is better than Cubase, and even worse: I'm not really interested in that topic. I know Logic too well to want to spend energy on learning Cubase anyway, and I'm done with Avid. I'm just curious about other DAWs, especially when someone claims that they clearly are superior to Logic.

My original post only mentioned audio as being superior, in general and specifically audio editing.

Also, something I neglected to mention, Cubase/Nuendo has plug-in compensation delay through 100% of the audio system, there is no messing around setting PDC to "Off", "All" or Software Instruments and Audio Tracks". Everything is compensated for correctly including pinging external instruments. Logic finally borrowed that feature.... but to be fair they've both been exchanging features over the years. Logic's "Arrange' page was another borrowed item from Steinberg, as well as VI.

Cubase is Nuendo minus some of the high end post production features, same audio engine, same layout... that's why I can go back and forth with the university's Nuendo powered audio arts and music dept.

To understand Cubase 6.5 you need to go back to version 6, actually v5 but I don't have a link for that.

Features in 6:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/new_features/whats_new.html

6.5

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/new_features/new_in_version_65.html

In the past 2.5 years Cubase has gone from version 5 to 6.5 with several incremental updates.

I downgraded Logic to 9.1.3 as it's the most stable on my single quad-core MP running SL, I'm curious as to the direction the next Logic version takes. It's been over three years since a version bump, add to that the the lack of communication from Apple plus instability many are experiencing under Lion/ML and the delay of new Mac Pros for another year.... is a problem for some. I'm much less worried about Logic than Apple, especially under the new management.

Youre right there, actually. Weirdly I had just been putting up with the delays.

For just over a year I have been manually adding delay to bring tracks into sync but I tend to just put up with it and workaround and perform a ritual sacrifice to the Grand Apple.

The workaround has been to use external processing mainly while recording, where as up to logic9, I used plug ins as a quick way to give a good monitor send. This now results in each new audio track accumalating delay. I now record with an empty mixer apart from very little compression before sending to ext processing.

ZXC wrote:

I like Logic's 'policy' about making it hard to change any of these files destructively, because it prevents accidents, especially for newbies, which may happen if you edit a groove destructively in one song to find two months later that you also used the same groove in another song, and that the edit you made destroyed how that groove worked in Project B.

That's what's good about how PT does processing of regions, for years they have given the choice of destructively editing the file or having the updated version create a new audio file, leaving the original. And in the new version it also keeps track of the unprocessed version and allows undoing at any point as well as changing the length of the processed region. Logic simply doesn't do that. As well as the other specifics I posted.

And I don't believe that the inability to apply plugins directly to chunks of audio is intentional and considered some sort of advantage by the programmers, hopefully they will add that.

Logic can probably do many of the audio editing things PT can. But some things just take more clicks or key commands. And for me, doing something in one click is an advantage over doing it in two.

Hi Mike,

I'm all for one click solutions instead of two click solutions too, for several reasons - one being that it's easier to remember a procedure which only takes one click. Things which needs only one click to fix aren't always obvious either, because the user needs to know which click he has to perform. But this, and the fact that Logic already has 1000+ key commands available (which I think is great), needs to be adressed separately. A higher degree of drag-and-drop and less reliance on key commands would prbably be good.

Maybe Logic will get some kind of one-click solution in the future in addition to Bounce-In-Place, which for me already is a good solution. But I guess Apple looks at all the possible solutions and wishes for the next update, and not necessarily have the same list of planned changes as PT users would like to see. IMHO, there are other things to address which are more important than adding a new way to burn effects into a file.

just the basics of moving audio files around. I'd have to spend some time in PT to make a list of the specifics what is better that I miss in Logic.

Such a list may be partially relevant to this thread - and I'm curious about what kind of problems you have with moving fils around in Logic!

It seems to me as if some of the suggestions coming from people who use both PT and Logic are derived from the idea that they want both DAWs to do everything the other DAW does in addition to everything it already does. But Logic can't and won't do everything Cubase, StudioOne, Pro Tools and other DAWs do, and definitly not in the same way other DAWs do it.

There's also some interesting stuff neither of these DAWs currently do, which could have higher priority with the Logic team than mimicking PT's workflow. And, as seen in discussions about Beat Detective, there will be PT users who want Logic to quantize audio exactly the same way as Beat Detective does it, even if Logic 9 already has a faster way to have the same process and results in Logic 9.

So if you have things you really miss in Logic, why not post them here - I'm sure the Apple guys aren't deaf or blind. :-) OTOH, if you need a long time to figure out if what should be on that list, maybe these things aren't that important? ;-)

Here's a couple that come to mind.

1) Does Logic have a simple way to move a region to the transport bar?

2) Is there a way to trim left/right of the transport bar on a selected region?

1) Does Logic have a simple way to move a region to the transport bar?

The transport bar? Which position would that be? :-) If you mean the playhead, the answer is yes: Look for a key command called "•Pickup Clock (Move Event to Playhead Position)"

2) Is there a way to trim left/right of the transport bar on a selected region?

You probably mean left/right locators here, right? Maybe what you're looking for is on this list of locator related key commands:

Set Locators by Regions/Events/Marquee

Set Rounded Locators by Regions/Events

•Set Locators and Play

•Set Rounded Locators and Play

•Set Rounded Locators and Cycle Play

•Set Rounded Locators and Record

•Set Rounded Locators and Cycle Record

Set Punch Locators by Regions/Events/Marquee

Set Rounded Punch Locators by Regions/Events

Set Punch Locators by Cycle Locators

Move Locators Forward by Cycle Length

Move Locators Backwards by Cycle Length

Toggle Auto Set Locators

Set Locators by Marker and Enable Cycle

Set Locators by Previous Marker and Enable Cycle

Set Locators by Next Marker and Enable Cycle

Zoom to fit Locators, store Navigation Snapshot

Select Inside Locators

Deselect Outside Locators

Delete inside Locators

Delete outside Locators

Split Regions/Events by Locators or Marquee Selection

Snip: Cut Section Between Locators (Selection)

Snip: Cut Section Between Locators (Global)

Insert Silence Between Locators (Selection)

Insert Silence Between Locators (Global)

Repeat Section Between Locators (Selection)

Repeat Section Between Locators (Global)

Adjust Tempo using Region Length and Locators

Time Stretch Region Length to Locators

Trim Regions to Fill within Locators

Crop Regions outside Locators or Marquee Selection

What exactly do you want to do? Set the left/right locators at the same position of the region start/end? This can be done automatically, every time you click on a region, if Auto-Set Locators is enabled. Control click in the bar rules, and you'll see a long list of options, including a way to enable Auto-Set Locators. You can also use the first key command on thelist above if you just want to set the locators according to the regions start/end points once.

If you mean the opposite - to crop the region at the left right locator positions, just select the region and press Crop - either as a key command (Control C) or by using an icon in the tool bar.

I actually assume "Crop" is what you want. OTOH, if you want to divide the region at the left/right locator positions, there are several ways to do that as well. Try to select the region and a long Command-click inside the locators in the bar ruler,. Or press press ⌘\. Or, Control-click on the region, and look inside the Contextual menu (look for "Split"). Or use the Region menu (in the Split submenu).

Thanks, the first one is what I was looking for.

On the second I meant the playhead, I'm looking for something similar to split by playhead position (which I already use) but instead crop or trim by playhead position. I don't see anything like that in that list or in the key command window.

Re. your first question, the key commands list above is what I found by searching for "locators". I shoud have searched for "locator" instead which would have showed me these additional key commands:

•Play from Left Locator

•Play from Right Locator

Go to Left Locator

Go to Right Locator

Stop and Go to Left Locator

Set Left Locator numerically...

Set Right Locator numerically...

Set Left Locator by Playhead

Set Left Locator by Rounded Playhead

Set Punch In Locator by Playhead

Set Punch In Locator by Rounded Playhead

Set Right Locator by Playhead

Set Right Locator by Rounded Playhead

Set Punch Out Locator by Playhead

Set Punch Out Locator Point by Rounded Playhead

If I want to move a region to the left locator, I actually use two key commands: Go To Left Locator combined with Move Event to Playhead position. If this is what you need, and need it often, you could assign those two commands to two adjacent keys like F5 and F6, which would make the process of moving something to the left locator very fast.