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Java and Ipad

I am trying to use a website with my Ipad. The website needs Java. There is a a button on the website that says it will download Java, but when I try it says can't do so because my mahchine needs windows. Does this make sense?

iPad

Posted on Jul 13, 2012 8:00 AM

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98 replies

Jun 18, 2018 4:42 PM in response to HarryKeller

@Harry


One big thing about Apple that you're missing, and that has always been the case long before the iPad etc. is that they don't really care about gaining "large segments" of software, or market share, or whatever. They simply aim to produce what they consider to be the "best" products, and if consumers agree, then they will buy them, (and obviously, they do and are) and software and market share will come along naturally. Apple, technically, could include every feature available on rivals products, but they choose not to. Apple deliberately leaves out certain features for long after others have included them, until they feel they can do it better, or will never include it if they feel there is a better alternative, or it simply doesn't work well enough for them.


Java (and Flash) are those types of technologies where you never get to do the "best" possible on every device it runs on. Every platform-agnostic technology naturally becomes limited by the lowest common denominator. If Apple allowed Java on iOS, you'd never get half of the "best in class" software products that Apple device users enjoy, because (lazy) developers who only want to write once, deploy everywhere, would write their apps so they run on the lowest spec hardware not taking advantage of any of the exclusive or specific capabilities of the Apple hardware or OS. It already happens on Android, where fragmentation is a real problem. How is that good for Apple's aim to be the "best"? Apple wants coders to be writing apps using native APIs that take advantage of the latest hardware instantly - not months or years later when Java eventually (if ever) gets updated to include support for these new features.


Until Apple came along, the concept of taking "decisions that will enable them to preserve the user experience" was uheard of.


Until Apple came along, computers were difficult to use for non tech-heads. Until Apple released the first iMac, computer designs were boring - how quick were rivals to try to copy them? Until Apple released the iPhone, phone designs and phone UIs had stagnated. Now look at them. Until Apple released the iPad, tablet computers were big bulky, clunky, things, trying to run desktop OSs with a stylus, that nobody wanted.


Of course, Apple didn't invent any of these things, nor were they first on the market with any of them. But they did refine and enhance things by controlling the whole user experience from hardware to software to the point where people wanted to buy them, and competitors needed to copy them. You don't get to do that using platform-agnostic solutions - I don't see how you can say pushing stagnating product categories ahead doesn't benefit the users in any way.

Jun 18, 2018 4:42 PM in response to HarryKeller

Oh dear... Seems you were just trolling - I mistakenly thought I was having a constructive discussion with a level-headed individual - my bad...


LAZY!!! ??? Wow, that's pretty strong.


...hence my bracketing of the word, to show I don't consider all Java developers lazy, but certainly I know some programmers who admit to using cross-platform solutions because they just want to get the job done, and not bother optimising for each platforms strengths...


We're not after the snazziest user experience here


You may not be, but Apple wants its products to stand out. Why bother releasing a product if its just going to end up looking like all the rest (or worse)?


I don't give a flying f*** about the "best" possible user experience


Hmmm... which I would guess is why you'll never see your products flying off the virtual shelves of Google Play, Windows Marketplace, Amazon's App Store and the Apple App Store...


Java is not a "feature."


Support for Java is a feature of the device (whether that's a phone, tablet, SmartTV, games console, whatever). Without the device "featuring" support for Java, users of those devices can't use software that relies on Java.


I am really sick of the Apple apologists and Apple chauvinists, like you Mrs. Miggins, telling me how my business should be run.


The tell-tale signs of a true internet troll - saying people did things, they never did... and accusing people with a different opinion as being "apologists" and "chauvinists". Sad that a senior member of the community lowers themselves to standards usually more befitting of the Generation Y types. Personally, I could not care any less how your business is run.


Oracle has already demonstrated Java on the iPad, but Apple won't let them deploy it. It's that simple.


Exactly. It's Apple device, therefore they get to choose what technologies, development languages etc. they allow in that product. Just like you get to choose which old programming languages to base your whole business on.


(the advanced version of the Surface is the first I've seen) that allow Java.


Because it runs the full (desktop) version of Windows 8, not the mobile device optimised Windows RT. It also suffers half as much battery life, and is twice the thickness. Not really a mobile device...


Java is central to a great deal of excellent Internet software.


Really? I haven't seen any (excellent or otherwise) internet software that required Java in about 10 years.


I get it that you all are in love with Apple. Love is blind.


Substitute "Apple" for "Java" in that sentence and apply it to yourself. It's not only Apple - ALL the other successful mobile device manufacturers don't support your beloved Java either. Ever thought there may be some very good reasons why they all, independently, arrived at the same decision?


Just because hundreds of millions of mobile device buyers don't share your enthusiam for Java (that you've chosen to base your whole business upon), and you've been caught out by the rapid rise of these devices that don't support Java (so you can't target your software at these users) you expect all highly successful OS and device manufacturers to change, rather than you change and move your business with the times.


Seems you've already cut off your nose... shame...

Jun 18, 2018 4:42 PM in response to SingaporeJames

Wow so you think that by having flash an java that our Internet experience would be diminished some how.



Nope. I never said anything like that. You must be confusing my comments with someone elses, or simply imagining things...



the only other mobile platforms are android and windows and they both allow java an flash plugins or the ability to have third party browsers that support it.


Great, then your problem is solved. Sell your Apple devices that don't do what you want, and buy Android or Windows devices that suit your needs perfectly. It's always best to do research and buy the things that meet your requirements. You wouldn't buy a bicycle to take four kids to school and then complain it didn't do what you wanted, would you?



apple will eventually bend


You think? As time passes (5.5 years and counting), and Java and Flash lose even more relevancy (desktop next), the chances of Apple supporting those technologies will get less, not more. Adobe stopped developing new versions of Flash for Android over a year ago. Only bug and security fixes are being released now. No new versions, ever. Flash for Android has gone from all the official mobile app markets.


I just installed the latest flash update on my galaxy s3

I can use my android device to access most java sites.


So you don't have a problem then. Choose whichever device most suits the task you want to accomplish. Just like you would choose to use your 5 seater car to take the kids to school, rather than your bicycle.


You do have a choice, which devices to buy and use.

Jun 18, 2018 4:42 PM in response to HarryKeller

I don't hate Java - I just have had no personal use for it whatsoever in years. If Apple wants to allow Java in iOS and it doesn't adversely affect it in any way (or can be disabled) it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they do that. Same with Flash, Silverlight or any other 3rd party Internet plugins.


However, if I choose to buy a device with specific features then I want to benefit from software that takes advantage of those features, otherwise what is the point of buying any particular device over any other? Consumer choice disappears if all hardware is made the same by the software running on it.


When the iPad was launched it had 100% of the tablet marketshare. The minute a competitor sold even one of their rival devices, iPad marketshare started going down. When you are at the top, the only way is down. So iPad marketshare is likely to continue going down for the foreseeable future as more rival devices start selling (even small numbers of them). But that fact has nothing to do with Java, and even if Apple allowed Java on the iPad, it would make zero difference to the iPad's marketshare. There are much higher priorities on consumers wishlists.


You're looking at this from a software developers point of view. Trouble is, only a tiny percentage of end users care about having Java. Those are the people that are buying devices like the iPad. Those are the people that fund the development of future generations of iPad, not the developers still using Java...


The iPad isn't lacking software without Java. If the software you make isn't available on the iPad, something similar is likely to be from another developer. As more and more iPads (and other Java-less devices) start being used in schools (as they are in huge numbers), educational developers who want to target their wares at such markets are going to have to quickly embrace these new/different methods of writing their applications for these new devices, before they get left behind and are made irrelevant by quicker moving software companies.


You take a "wait and see" attitude, and others will eagerly jump ahead of you.

Jun 18, 2018 4:42 PM in response to HarryKeller

I'll just leave these here, for those people who think advocating the use of Java is still a good thing:


Homeland Security warns to disable Java amid zero-day flaw

http://www.zdnet.com/homeland-security-warns-to-disable-java-amid-zero-day-flaw- 7000009713/


Protecting Users Against Java Vulnerability

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2013/01/11/protecting-users-against-java-vulne rability/


Protect against latest Java zero-day vulnerability right now: Mal/JavaJar-B

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/01/10/protect-yourself-against-latest-java- zero-day-vulnerability-now-maljavajar-b/


Fortunately, iOS users need take no action whatsoever. Yay! Although I do feel a little sorry for all the SysAdmins around the world now faced with disabling Java on all the computers they manage, then having to install the fixed version whenever that is released.

Jul 13, 2012 8:14 AM in response to Ineophyte

If nothing else works, consider subscribing to a third-party remote desktop service like AlwaysOnPC ( http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/office-flash-java-w-chrome/id380204369?mt=8 ), it runs the applets at http://java.sun.com/applets/ just fine.


Unfortunately, otherwise remote emulation-based, inexpensive browsers like iSwifter (which is just a proxy to a server-side Firefox) can't run applets at all. Neither can SkyFire, Puffin or Photon, the other three, known remote desktop and/or stream transcoding-based browsers. That is, your only choice is full remote terminal access.

Java and Ipad

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