Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

A minor test with 10.8.3 was ok.

Further tests to follow after I've

finished a production under SL.

As long as the lag is not minutes long. I am done deal.

Yes and I've submitted a feedback report.

For what its worth I still have lag on my Macbook Pro Retina. I use 32bit logic and dont care much about 64bit nor care to test it. Sorry thats Apples job. I dont really care to help them anymore since im pretty sure they dont give a **** about me. I have submitted a ticket twice and havent got any feedback.

I have work to do and getting it done in Ableton 9 without a hitch with all my plugins I love, like LFO tool and the Vengence MBC that someone stated earlier were buggy, needed updates or just not stable on Logic, i think it was the art of sound guy. Well they seem like great stable plugins in Ableton so go figure bro.

Mark,

Doesn't the MacBook Pro Retina come with 8GB of ram these days, by default?

In which case, not running Logic in 64bit mode is strange as you are not getting anything like the performance out of your MBP and Logic (or Live for that matter), that you could, by doing so...

It's an odd attitude to take.. when you say you neither care for or wish to test 64bit mode.. given the clear benefits in doing so once you have at least 6+GB of ram on board... but then, each to their own.

As has been said several times in this thread and elsewhere.. Don't just submit a ticket.. Call them and get a Case ID.. and use that Case ID in every communication of any kind you have with Apple in regards to this issue. Doing so forces a different set of actions by Apple's support dept... and as I have found, often leads to much more communication from Apple in return.

As an example of the benefits of using Case IDs... I had a long standing issue with Logic and an external FW HD connected to my Mac via the TB to FW adaptor... that was driving me nuts. After two months of files and logs being sent back and forth between myself, two other people who reported the same issue.. the various Dev teams and other Apple support personal.. the problem was finally identified as an obscure bug in how OS X implements Thunderbolt.. (and was finally fixed very quietly in 10.8.3.) Had I not used a Case ID I don't believe for a second, that I would have obtained a fix for this issue because i would have had to start all over again, each time I submitted a bug report about this issue.. and there would be no documented history for Apple to refer to.

As for Ableton Live, I use the 64bit version of Live 9 ( as well as having used previous 32 (and more recently 64bit) versions for a long time now ) so I know it's little issues that affect certain users.. such as the long standing PDC bug... that still isn't properly fixed in 9.0.2... However, one of the positives of Live is it handles plugins much more efficiently than Logic does... but then again, it doesn't have anything like the same feature set as Logic as they are two different DAWs made for two entirely different workflows... so 'different horses for courses..'

Finally my comments about MBC were based on my own experiences with that plugin. As I said, each to the own but for me, I got rid of it some time back as there are much more efficent and better 'sounding' plugins of that same type, available these days... and of course, the whole 'stolen loops and samples' saga/mes that Vegeance are responsible for.... which is one reason I don't and will never support that company any further... and that personally, I think is dreadful behavior from such a company especially given their own restrictive licenses! (If you don't know what i am talking about, simply google "vengeance stolen samples" and read through a few of the results..)

The Art Of Sound wrote:

Mark,

Doesn't the MacBook Pro Retina come with 8GB of ram these days, by default?

In which case, not running Logic in 64bit mode is strange as you are not getting anything like the performance out of your MBP and Logic (or Live for that matter), that you could, by doing so...

This of course is going on the assumption that Mark isn't mainly using 32bit plugins. If he is, then performance could be overall worse.

If he isn't though, and isn't scoring for film/doing other a/v work, I recommend 64bit as well, it's absence of a memory limit alone is a lesson in freedom.

While your point is well taken gen....Even if he is using 32bit plugins... (and to be honest the number of plugins that are only available in 32bit versions, is growing smaller and smaller each passing week) the 32bit bridge isn't anything like as 'bad' as it used to be... I use Sylenth all the time via the 32bit bridge and while the bridge does crash every once in a while, (though nothing like as often as it used to do so) it only takes a quick relaunch of the bridge (as Logic itself remains unaffected) and you are back to where you started... with minimal hassle and you get all the extra benefits of 64bit Logic at the same time.

JMO, YMV!

Yeah but its not as good as running in 32bit right? I mean, if I don't have memory issues in 32bit and all my plugins work as should then 64bit is pointless. Yes i have seen with my own eyes how 64bit can enhance cpu utilization, but again, stability wins over 5 percent more CPU IMO. Seems like a silly thing actually. If I needed the memory and bridge worked as good as native 32bit mode then sure why not up to 64bit.

The PDC issue in Ableton doesn't really cause me near the headache as lag does in Logic. So sure dude, lets point out all the long standing flaws of each DAW but lets not soften the problem with Logic. Coming from a QA background this bug is pretty serious, not like a crash but but enough to cause people not to buy it and thats a no no.

Mark,

Yeah but its not as good as running in 32bit right?

But that's what i saying.. The recent updates have really improved the 32bit bridge's stability.... It's not perfect still but I'd rather run in 64bit mode, get the performance benefits and every now and again relaunch the bridge than run in 32bit mode with it's various limitations.. plus, some people (though not all) are reporting a major improvement with the lag issue when they run Logic in 64bit mode so it has to be worth a try don't you think?

I wasn't trying to 'soften the problem' with Logic.. After all it was you that brought up Live stating it was much more stable...and i was simply pointing out, Live has it's own long standing issues too... that affect people in the same way... The lag issue, for those that have it, is a real PITA for sure and Apple needs to fix it for everyone in both 32 and 64bit mode. .. just as Ableton need to fix the PDC once and for all too as it is also a PITA for certain workflows.. and both issues are equally annoying and disruptive for those that suffer from them.

I'm lucky enough not to have Logic's Lag issue but I sure as heck suffer from Live's PDC issue (and a couple of other long standing problems...) so I do sympathize with anyone having such irritating and work limiting issues, no matter what DAW they might be using.

There you are, man -

The Art Of Sound wrote:

It's not perfect still but I'd rather run in 64bit mode, get the performance benefits and every now and again relaunch the bridge than run in 32bit mode with it's various limitations..

We all still have to live within the limitations of the software and hardware - before I started using my Mini Server, I used a G5 for about 4 years - I had to learn all sorts of stuff to get where I wanted to go (with Logic 8 as well - no BiP...argghhh)

You don't really want it to be that easy that anybody can come along and do it, really, do you ?...he he..

I think it took a while for me to adapt my way of thinking about using an analogue mixers to actually thinking about using digital mixing in a relaxed kind of way, so I could be imaginative with it.

There are quite a number of parameters to consider when programmers develop software, particularly when they may share resources, such as Quicktime and Logic and maybe you want to run a movie there as well, you know... and the plug-ins have to maintain a compatibility as the software continues to be developed and ....

If you really need to do this, you'll find some kind of set-up (it'll always need tweaking) and try and make sense out of it yourself and take it from there on a continuing basis. Well, that's what I have to do.

Its not really a rant is it ?

Not really, but it does show a flaw in your logic. You don't really clearly understand why you're doing what you're doing. You've learned to act a certain way but you do not know you're acting that way.

Basically, that whole paragraph can be summed up into one statement. I do not change my configuration unless I am forced to becasue it is what I'm used to. I set, forget and get on with my work.. This is exactly what most professionals do, the problem now i that it's not completely working now, and your sentimental value (of the time it worked perfectly) is stopping you from seriously testing a mode you does work.

Your set-up isnt that different in 64bit, just set, see if it fixes your issue, and so, forget about settings and let yourself get back to work. 🙂

I don't think you've understood my point, maybe I didn't express it very well, but basically I have a necessary requirement as a musician, so if I'd had insurmountable problems (fortunately not, in my case), I'd have been using Cubase or DP or whatever, by now, maybe even a PC set-up, but I'd have had to find some way of continuing what I want to do.

And, yes, of course, I do want to set and forget, which is why I don't automatically upgrade OS or Logic when I have a system that works.

Seriously, it takes five seconds to switch Logic to 64 bit. There's no risk to trying it, and it's just as fast to switch back. If it doesn't work better, it doesn't work better. But refusing to try something that may help the problem makes it seem like you're more interested in having something to whine about than actually getting a fix.

-mark- wrote:

but lets not soften the problem with Logic. Coming from a QA background this bug is pretty serious, not like a crash but but enough to cause people not to buy it and thats a no no.

FWIW... I think the market Apple is aiming for will never experience the lag.

If you look at all the new users posting, 90% use the caps lock keyboard and built in audio or else a cheap controller and a $100 audio interface.

The "professional" Logic user base is not growing, it's stagnant or diminishing, it's obvious Apple is courting the consumer market, that's why Logic is $199 and comes with gigabytes of loops. I'm not slagging Logic because the lag is not Logic's problem, it's Apple's Operating System that's the problem so slag Apple! Logic is still a good (Great) program but it is rapidly being left in the dust by other Daws (who don't have their resources plundered by a large corporate entity.)

Well said Pancenter. Well said.