TB - eSATA with Port Multiplier Needed

Hi Folks,

OK, I am at a point of fairly high frustration as we speak…the usual glitch when transitioning to the latest bleeding edge technology. What really makes me mad is that this problem should have been avoided by a little market insight into the design of some peripherals by two usually excellent manufacturers.

Since 2008-9, I have been using two five disk eSATA enclosures, both using port multiplication and a single eSATA connection each. They have terminated with 2 cables into a Sonnet Tempo Pro Express 34 card into my 17” loaded MBP. I run SoftRAID, and have a simple, very reliable scheme for maintaining backups, eliminating disk fragmentation, and enjoying excellent daily performance. I wrote about all this at length a while back in the Aperture support forum, I assume you can search my posts to see pages of detail on this if you are so inclined…

ANYWAY, I wanted to upgrade my MBP, and since I use an external calibrated wide gamut display for 90% of my work, I did not see the need for the Retina display model. This MBP does not travel very often, as I have another MBP in the studio for tethering, so I have this one only when I go on location that requires tethering. I do theatre work, Playbill and promotionals, lobby posters, headshots and the like. My location shoots are basically non-tethered in a theatre seat, the MBP back in the hotel room to cull the day’s work.

So a just bought a MBP9,1 with 16GB RAM, removed the optical drive and installed two 512GB SSDs for a 1TB RAID 0 array. This baby has the same CPU/GPU as the Retina, but with more and faster storage. OK, I am excited about my new horsepower until I encounter…

Problem one…this model, unlike the Retina has only has ONE Thunderbolt port, and I have to use this to connect my monitor. MY STUPID ASSUMPTION…I saw Sonnet had a TB chassis to hold Express 34 cards…great, I thought, this would allow me to use the same card and eSATA enclosures I have been using, and I would daisy-chain the monitor…PROBLEM – the Sonnet chassis shortsightedly has only one TB connector, so no daisy chain…ARRGGGHH! I called Sonnet and got a frankly rude response I should have bought the Retina MBP. Well, rudeness aside, that is no answer as the Retina, although it has 2 TB ports, has no Ethernet or FW connection, both of which I use…file transfer over wired Ethernet is far faster than wireless, and we are always sending large files between machines..SOOOO…I would have to eat one of the TB slots to have Ethernet on the Retina, and I am back at square one with the same issue.

I then contacted LaCIE, after looking at pictures of their TB/eSATA hub…looked great, has 2 TB, 2 eSATA, and even 2 USB 3.0 for good measure. It is bus powered, and looked perfect for $199, plus a TB cable….BUT NOOOO…in yet another example of short-sighted design, their two eSATA connections do not support port multiplier enclosures, they only see the first disk in a box… ARRGGGHH! AGAIN…

I think the problem may lie in the assumption these manufacturers are making that someone using eSATA needs only to maximize performance, like a video editor. That use needs 100% of the eSATA bandwidth per channel, and that means one device per connection. Now some of these single devices can contain hardware that makes multiple disks a standalone RAID array, but they suffer the same fate if you set their hardware to JBOD (which is what I require)…you will only see the first disk in the box.

Photographers do not need that ultimate continuous throughput, we need the other major feature of eSATA…port multiplication, and the ability to have massive amounts of fast storage in hot-swappable maximum flexibility JBOD configurations, running the awesome SoftRAID for stripes, auto mirrors and superfast rebuilds. SoftRAID rebuilds a mirror faster than any dedicated hardware box I have seen, and it is the daily offsite backup that is one of my requirements.

Sooo here I sit with this great MBP I cannot use ATM, and I am on the hunt for this answer…I do not need TB arrays, the performance I am getting now is basically immediate, so more data throughput would be paying for something I do not need. All suggestions are welcome.

Sincerely,

K.J. Doyle

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 5:14 PM

30 replies

Feb 8, 2013 10:58 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

I know this is an older discussion but I may have at least a workable solution in case you or others are still looking.

I too have been frustrated with the slow pace at which thunderbolt hardware has been released and at the lack of dual port devices. I think this is finally going to change for the better by the end of 2013. From my contact with a few different vendors, including Atto and OWC, part of the problem has been a rather slow thunderbolt certification process that manufacturers have to go through for each product.

I think apple should have at least released a daisy chainable GbE thunderbolt adapter with their last batch of laptops. That has been my biggest frustration with the MacBook air. I thought the Matrox DS1 might be a solution but it too is a one port device which also lacks eSata. At least it has more than one function.

In the mean time, I have been using a USB 3.0 esata adapter from Datoptic. It is the only USB 3.0 adapter that I know of currently that has Port Multiplier capability. It is listed as the U3esata and can be found on their website or on Amazon for less than $30. I have used it with 2 different windows 7 machines and a MacBook Air with better than expected results but don't expect thunderbolt or sata iii speeds. A little faster than firewire for me on the Mac side and it seems just a little slower than my Sonnet Tempo Pro card on an older 2008 mbp. I have not benchmarked anything though and I did not use both devices on the same computer since they lack the proper interfaces. I actually bought a second one since it is so convenient. If you need help with the adapter Sam at Datoptic can probably help you get things going. I was surprised when I called about a separate product and he answered right away and was very friendly. Unlike every experience I have ever had with Sonnet, who have been rude and only semi helpful over the years.

The next cheapest solution I have found for port multiplier involves a thunderbolt compatible sata pcie controller card with PM capability and one of the current thunderbolt to pcie boxes (avoiding Sonnet of course since I stopped buying their products due to the rudeness even though I like the Tempo express34 pro card I have). The cost for this type of solution starts around $530 depending on the card and the number of pcie slots in the expansion chassis.

As you can see, even for a temporary solution until the next batch of better Thunderbolt solutions arrive, $30 is hard to beat.

Glad you mentioned Softraid. I also think it works wells and they have friendly support via email too. I like the disk certification process they added a while back. Nice to stress those disks a little before putting them into service and the return window expires. On my Windows machines I like HDsentinel for disk certification and testing. I have not tried the U3esata adapter with SoftRaid but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work once your system sees the disks.

Hope someone finds this information useful.

Jay

Feb 8, 2013 11:56 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Forgot to mention that if you head over to Datoptics site, check out the thunderbolt tab for a familiar looking thunderbolt to pcie solution (think other world) preloaded with a new PM esata card. I just checked and it looks like it is available for $100 less than I said the cheapest solution was in my last post. And it says it will support the new Marvell 6gbs Port Multipliers (when they finally show up this year I assume). Not sure what controller they are using but if you call Sam I am sure he can tell you.

I am not affiliated with any of the companies I mentioned but I do work in the tech field.

Now if only the 3 slot solutions will start to decrease in price...

Jay

Vmanjeff

Level 1

8 points

Feb 12, 2013 1:16 PM in response to smallisland

WOW! That unit from DATA Optics looks just like the OWC one.... So one Co is getting them from the other Co..... I was just about to pull the trigger and go with the OWC Thunderbolt Helios and the Sonnet 4 eSATA card...

So the million dollar question is... Which SATA card is DATA Optics using?? From what I saw the price is about $100 more than OWC but includes the SATA card.... This will be the deal breaker for me. I looked over their site but none of their SATA cards has an over/under configuration for 4 eSATA ports??

BTW - After further review and info grathering I have decided to not go the Adonics route as my previous post from page one...sorry...

Mar 4, 2013 8:15 PM in response to Vmanjeff

So the million dollar question is... Which SATA card is DATA Optics using?? From what I saw the price is about $100 more than OWC but includes the SATA card.... This will be the deal breaker for me. I looked over their site but none of their SATA cards has an over/under configuration for 4 eSATA ports??

I find the DAT Optic (DAT not DATA, and Optic not Optics; you let yourself get sloppy) part to be questionable. "Support JBOD up to 7 drives when combines with Port Multiplier eSATA." Since each PM port supports 5 drives (per eSATA standard), that means that only 1 of the 4 ports supports PM and the other 3 do not. Even then we have a drive missing (should be 8 drives supported). Anyway the point is that this is only going to work for a 4 or (maybe 5) drive JBOD, not an 8+ drive enclosure, and not more enclosures.

So this device would not work for the OP.

What I found that would work is the Sonnet Tech E2P. That supports 10 drives through 2 eSATA PM ports. Then of course you need the Thunderbolt PCIe chassis. The E2P is only $50 MSRP from Sonnet Tech directly, so the total solution is $450. However it "only" works at 3Gb/s. I couldn't find a 6Gb/s solution.

Alternatively, as the OP pointed out intially, use the EC/34 TB adapter and the EC/34 eSATA PM card. However that only has 1 TB port. Also this is much slower than the PCIe solution. From Sonnet Tech: "Tempo SATA ExpressCard/34 can sustain read and write speeds to a single SATA drive of up to 125 Mb/sec, about four times as fast as USB 2.0." This is a typo however, the actual data rate is 125MB/sec. (B not b). The "Pro" version of the card does 200MB/sec.

It also has the convenience of not requiring another power brick. For the OP, the speed is obviously not a problem as he was already using this card prior.

Mar 4, 2013 9:12 PM in response to chandra.1

Performance update: The E2P card only does about 110-125MB/s (ie it can't do full SATAII bandwidth). So the EC/34 is actually more performant.

Vmanjeff

Level 1

8 points

Mar 5, 2013 2:51 AM in response to chandra.1

Yea... I got sloppy. Apologies to all ... "DATOptic"..

I called them and spent much time on the phone with Sam, resident guru on the OWC Helios Thunderbolt box and DATOptics eSATA solution. Enough time that I was convinced this would work with my setup. He led me around their website to the links to their card and backplate. The exact pages eludes me here but when I get to a computer I can be more specific if you like. The backplate is (was since when I got the unit the backplate configuration was different, still 4 ports though) on their site as a backplate extension. I spent much time on a midshift searching from the supplied pics and Sam led me to that. So the eSATA card would then be a card with 4 internal cable plugins. The actual card is not on their site (or any other site) but an SAS version of the card is. This concerned me but I felt the pre-shipping price was acceptable to me so I made my purchase and have the DATOptic Thunderbolt eSATA box in my system at this point! I will post a more detailed description with speeds this evening. But as of now I have a Sans Digital RAID5 box and a Bluray burner connected to it and will have a Sans Digital PM box connected today.

Mar 5, 2013 1:04 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Hi all,

OK, since I saw some good activity of my thread here, I got motivated to report on where I am with everything since my original cry of angst with Apple's poor handling of large scale storage in the transition to Thunderbolt. I tried a number of "solutions" over the elapsed months, and I am very disappointed with the high price and non-evolution of Thunderbolt as a mainstream legitimate storage medium for the needs of the professional photographer, specifically using Aperture.

If you look through my past postings I clearly defined what is needed, and not needed in storage for photographers. We need lots of storage, reliable media, protocol, format and interconnection. We need a religiously-executed backup strategy that also manages to eliminate disk fragmentation in its process.

We do not need speed, per se...bringing up a RAW file takes way more time to resolve to usefully edit than it does to load. Speed does make backups and file ingestions quicker, but that is a very small percentage of a user's time in the workflow.

Thunderbolt is overkill speed for this use, and at a ridiculous premium. The sad thing is it is so costly to implement most manufacturers only offer a one TB port solution, making daisy-chaining (or display use on one port computers) impossible. The second really dumb choice is that most manufacturers have implemented a cheap hardware RAID chip in their disk arrays.

Rule 1 in large scale storage is to have as little complexity between origination, storage and retrieval of a given file. Meaning writing a file out directly to a single disk without processing, and reading it back the same way, and making backups of verified data only is ideal for photographers.

Video editors need high throughput, and are stuck with having to stripe drives to get the speed to work at high resolutions. It is the nature of their beast, not ours. Even then, backups of video projects are stored on single mechanisms for archiving safety and simplicity.

RAID 5 or other redundant flavors like DROBO is not only unnecessary for photographers, but frankly dangerous and time consuming. It still requires offsite backup, and only offers data AVAILABILTY as a consequence. Aperture workstations are single user, and when you make your daily backup, working from the backup the next day ensures you start the day with zero fragmentation. If you are operating a website 24/7 and need to replace bad disks while working, then fine. Around here we go home at night and the systems make backups of files verified during the day. Fridays we rotate offsite copies of everything. PLUS...cheap internal chip RAID 5 is far less safe and reliable than "REAL" RAID 5 systems used by server IT pros. The huge disparity in cost is a clear indicator you get what you pay for.

RAID 1 is not for us as it is really good at making an immediate copy of anything on the primary disk, even corrupted files. A photographer needs to backup verified files and defragment in the process. That means you backup when work is done, and using software that verifies the integrity of the files.

I have used and heartily recommend SoftRAID for its superb support, safety and transparency of operation, cost and simplicity. All mechanisms you purchase should be SoftRAID certified before you entrust your data to them. I certify all my CF cards every month, and that alone has saved me from ever seeing a corrupt file on a card again.

As you recall, in the OP I was upset because frankly Apple decided to put a useless SD slot in place of my Express 34 that housed my beloved Sonnet Tempo Pro connected to two 5-disk arrays for many years, and then they drop the 17" MBP which still had one, and left me with an expensive and unnecessary and uncapable Thunderbolt solution.

To cut to the chase, I have landed, happily and inexpensively, in the USB 3.0 camp. I get more speed then my old Sonnet Tempo Pro setup, and after I solved the sleep/unmount problem, have been 100% reliable. PLUS...I can add lots more disks if I wanted to than the eSata PM will allow (max 5 per channel)...AND cost for interface to Mac is ZERO.

OK, two issues, the first is the workaround that solves the USB 3.0 random unmounting problem yu may have read about. The first array I got to test was the SansDigital eSata/USB3 5-disk JBOD/PM array. This also has one of those cheap RAID chips I hate, but setting it at JBOD bypasses it completely. I configured it using the eSata on on older computer flawlessly, connected it to the USB 3 on my new MBP, and began to suffer random unmounting episodes. I checked the internet, and saw this was a regular issue...BUT, I happened to read a PC website where the poster said USB 3.0 hates to be slept or powered down. He solved it by using the Windoze command to not sleep drives. SO I opened Energy Saver, unchecked the option to spin down hard drives and the problem disappeared. To be fair, this is a workaround. You cannot sleep your Mac without unmounting or it will unmount...and you cannot hotswap drives, but that does not bother me as I take the systems down to run maintenance software before backup anyway. It is however, as I said, fast and free.

According to the PC poster, the USB 3 sleep issue was an Intel driver problem, and I think it will be fixed in the future. BTW, Apple support would not take responsibility for this saying the array was probably not compatible. Clearly this problem is identified and worked around, so it matters not to me ATM.

Anyway, always in need of more storage, I got two 8 disk SansDigital USB 3.0 arrays, and they are working great....and cheap! The TowerRAID TR8U+ - 8 Bay SATA to USB 3.0 JBOD Enclosure sells for only $352. This is JBOD only so I am not paying for the RAID chip I hate and do not use. Plus, the trays from my old SansDigital stuff fits so I am a happy camper. Oh, and using SoftRAID to monitor it all, of course.

Hope this helps,

KJ Doyle

Vmanjeff

Level 1

8 points

Mar 6, 2013 5:57 AM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Hi Kevin! Thanks for getting back to this and going through your trials and tribulations! It was a healp to me, even though I am one of those video guys...!

The whole thread has been informative.

Just a quick reply to you and to my precious post .... The PM BOX I was going to report on as to how it works with the DATOptic/OWC eSATA box arrived too late last night for a complete test so I will get things together over then next couple days and post... Although I might want to start a new thread in a video forum if you guys think i should??!

I need to call DATOptic with some questions first and flesh out some issues I seem to be having.

One question for Kevin is... What is it about the Sans Digital 5 disc RAID chip that you do not like? Please explain if you can because this is the unit I have plugged in right now running RAID5. I am primarily concerned with keeping all my DV, AVCHD and HDV video safe and secondarily concerned with drive speed for editing. Currently my entire family history resides on the RAID5 box and is also backed up to the new 4 disk PM box. Maybe overkill as I still have the DV tapes but I just feel better doing this.

And, do you want to sell your 'old' 5 disk box? What model number is it specifically? (if it is the same as the one I have given the DATOptic enclosure card can do RAID10 or 1+0 and I am considering bypassing the onboard RAID on the Sans box and using 2 like enclosures) I know I can just get another box without onboard RAID but thought I'd ask...

It seems the more I learn about RAID, PM, enclosures, etc., the more questions I have and the more I DON'T know!!

Mar 6, 2013 9:45 AM in response to Vmanjeff

OK, I think the best place to start is to define a couple of things.

First, what RAID was designed to do. RAID or (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives) saw life as RAID 5 to start. RAID 5 sole purpose was for a storage medium to survive mechanism failure without going offline. It was to serve the needs of a 24/7 requirement, like ecommerce. When a drive fails, and is replaced either physically (or by a hot spare at higher RAID levels) the array must rebuild itself as a background task while continuing to operate. Clearly, the system throughput is taking a performance hit here, but for the intended purpose (24/7 ecommerce) the connected users will not notice as a lot of factors contribute to the speed equation in that scenario. Bottom line, the system remains up and no business is lost. In the base RAID 5 system, rebuilding is not only time-consuming and performance killing, but it leaves you with no protection at all if another drive fails or the rebuilding process becomes corrupted. Any failure requires you rebuild the entire array from scratch and repopulate from a backup.

RAID is not a backup, it is a system designed around availability, period. Spend money on off site archives and a religious verified backup scheme, not RAID. In practical application in video editing a disk failure costs far more downtime with RAID 5 (or higher) that a conventional restore from a backup onto a fresh array.

Second, although since I already said you should not be using RAID for video editing purposes, the single chip internal RAID controller provides no insight or control over the member mechanisms like professional discrete channel RAID systems do, and usually contain proprietary code, formats or processes (Drobo being the biggest offender) that can literally leave a broken array unrecoverable by any means. No thank you...not to be trusted.

First, most video editors or photographers do not have 24/7 working access requirements. Even backups are typically done outside of working (editing) time on the system. Second, the performance hit while rebuilding AND the performance lost vs. a pure RAID 0 array is not what you want in a video system. In fact, RAID 0 is technically not RAID at all, as it is in no way redundant.

Speaking practically, ALL DRIVES FAIL. SSD or motor, they have a finite life. You are buying a consumable, make no mistake. I recommend yearly certification of each mechanism, and retire them to shelf use at 60 months providing they pass a final cert. In a professional environment, paying a salary to a guy at a dead workstation is to be avoided at all costs.

Since all drives fail, I want to maximize professional uptime and performance. You need consistent performance for professional video. Using a RAID array for video during a rebuild is just asking for dropped frames and other artifacts. Therefore I would not be editing/capturing during a rebuild. Alternatively in the event of a failure I can reset a RAID 0 array fresh and copy from a backup in a fraction of the time that RAID rebuild requires. Bottom line, I will be back woring with consistent array performance faster than the RAID rebuilding. Pros use independent array mirroring, so you simply switch to the mirrored array in the event you primary array goes down. Literally seconds of actual downtime in that case.

I don't know what your video throughput requirements are, but whatever they might be, you should be concerned ONLY with 2 things.

1) Striped array speed for video editing use. Pure RAID 0 with whatever the maximum speed configuration you can achieve in your particular setup. This usually requires tweaking and testing. The material resides on this maxed speed array for the editing process only, and once done is copied to an archive mechanism and typically stored offline.

Now the hard limit for Thunderbolt using 2 ports on a Mac so equipped at this point is 1350MB/s (ref. barefeats and others) so short of an exotic SAS rig on a Tower with discrete channel cards that number is high end.

2) RAID 5 for video editor use is the wrong choice for many reasons:

a) For any given number of drives is slower than the max speed design array above

b) It is providing AVAILABILITY, not protection. It is doing that at the cost of added complexity and lessened transparency of storage operations.

Workflow as I suggest is this:

1) ingest video from original source onto max speed array,

2) Make backup onto a single mechanism (or mirrored array), set aside while editing project.

3) Edit project from array,

4) Successfully output final render,

5) Copy project to archive drive(s) (on and offsite)

6) Erase project from array.

Remember the safest least complex storage is to a single mechanism with verification of the file copy. Zero complexity and no addition circuitry or data handling.

As far as the first SansDigital 5-disk array I used, went back within 30 days and got the 8 drive instead. Thanks Amazon!

Hope this helps,

KJ Doyle

Vmanjeff

Level 1

8 points

Mar 6, 2013 10:48 AM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Well, so much for getting another box for cheap.... JK..

And thank you for your detailed response. Having a finite budget led to the choices I have made. All my video production, at this time is for personal use and even though I toy with getting back into the business, I am comfortable with my Govmn't job until retirement (4 more years!0... Sequestration not withstanding!!??

So what I determined to work best (for now) was to use a RAID5 for all my personal video and keep a back-up on independant disks so in the future, should I have the option to build a better back-up solution I can dump the RAID5 and go from there. My thought was also to use the RAID5 array for editing as a compromise.

Your input is invaluable as I trudge through the minefield as videographer, editor, network admin, computer nerd, and now eSATA student. I left Video Production with Betamax and DV and re-enter with HD and codecs and bitrates, oh my! All my work is done on from a 17' MacBookPro through a Thunderbolt monitor to a Matrox MX02 HD Video interface. I initially dove back into the game and edited AVCHD and HDV video from 2 BlacX Dual eSATA/USB 2.0 enclosures to an Apiotek Expresscard34 eSATA card (PM aware) and while this provided enough bandwidth for DV it is not suitable for HD video (AVCHD, Converted AVCHD or HDV!) But this is all I had. It worked with many nice little beachballs as my timelines became more complex (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj9FdHkAoHI or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYEO4S-OoAA ) These are two examples of my work for friends and family.

So I get the oppurtunity to upgrade my storage ability and I first choose the RAID5 enclosure as the best compromise between cost, back-up and editing. Then I now see that quite possibily RAID 10 or even JBOD with multiple back-ups would be better for my valued family history. Or as I discuss this with you and others I will see another path. I understand nothing lasts forever and my goal is to get all this video onto DVD or Bluray disks in the hopes it might last at least until my children throw it away :-)

But good, reliable information is somewhat hard to come by and it is still a personal choice as to what direction one goes.

Since my first priority as of now was getting all the DV video onto harddrives I think I have accomplished this, RAID whatever. I spent the last 2 months digitizing footage and have it available and backed up. NOW I can address my video editing requirements as you set out above and, if necessary, purchase another enclosure and set it up as a striped array or other. I mentioned RAID 10 because it seems the best move forward from what I have (add to exhisting) ratherr than starting all over.

The reason for the DATOptic/Helios Thunderbolt Hub was based on conversations with DATOptic and internet research as my initial thought was to have several "boxes" connected with differing configurations. Four connections, more boxes! This might have been wrong thinking for me at this point as I am coming to the conclusion that the included card only supports one port multiplier box but will set-up several RAID configurations, and accomodate my Bluray burner, at the same time. I also have a LaCie Thunderbolt Hub that was used for the Bluray player and I had hoped to use it for an external box but there are mixed reviews as to it working or not with PM and/or RAID enclosures.

Now I stumble on a post that talks about Frame Based Switching (FBS/FIS) and Command Based Switching (CBS) which is interesting given the LaCie's mixed reviews. And I found out late last night that the PM enclosure I just received DOES work with the LaCie but Not with the DATOptic.... Strange, but I suspect the DATOptic solution sees my current RAID5 enclosure as a PM Box and it seems to only support 1 PM.

So I continue to learn.....

Thanks again for responding and I will 'digest' it further over the next day or two!

Apr 28, 2013 9:00 AM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Kevin,

I understand you may not be the right person who I have to ask about this, but since everyone I ask doesn't have a f clue your're my last resort )

I have an eSATA box with multiple drives. When I connect it to my Mac mini (2012, i7) via eSATA>USB3 or eSATA>TB adapter, OS sees only first drive, so it looks like there's no port multiplier support in both USB3 and TB adapters. And I tried two USB3 adapters, one is NewerTech, another one claims to have PM support as stated on seller's website

I went to a geek guy just to check, connected it via eSATA>eSATA to his Hackintosh (no Macs at his home) machine -- no luck, just one drive. Then he restared his computer in Windows (7 or 8) -- yep! Port Multipler worked, OS mounted all drives. Then we connected the box via those eSATA>USB3 adapters -- no luck again, first drive only.

I guess you now have a lot of experience with USB 3 regarding port multiplier technology, thanks in advance for helping me with this )

Roman

MiBolsa

Level 1

8 points

Jan 15, 2014 7:20 PM in response to Kevin J. Doyle

Instead searching for TB to eSATA support PM adapter...

I get this USB3.0 adapter for my eSATA box

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Support-Multiplier-Patent-Pending/dp/B005DCCMII

End of search TB to eSATA for my new MAC

But if you want a TB to JBOD you can use these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSA1AOA

http://www.amazon.com/DataTale-RS-M4T-Thunderbolt-Storage-Enclosure/dp/B00CC0VRQ C/

Jan 15, 2014 8:29 PM in response to MiBolsa

You can buy those kinds of adapters from OWC. There is a problem finding them on their website. I just bought a eSata to USB 3 adapter and had to telephone them. Couldn't find it on their website.

Go to: www.macsales.com

They are located in Michigan.

MiBolsa

Level 1

8 points

Jan 16, 2014 9:32 AM in response to daikambu65

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADESATA6USB3/

and

http://www.datoptic.com/ec/usb3-usb2-to-esata-with-port-multiplier-mac-windows.h tml

DATOptic's USB3.0 supports Port Mutiplier eSATA box, MAC system can see up to 5x drives with a USB3.0 connection, where OWC can not

MiBolsa

Level 1

8 points

Jan 20, 2014 1:57 PM in response to MiBolsa

With U3eSATA adapter (support Port Multiplier) installed

Some of the HDD do not respect the System Preferences Desing Settings, and HDD can be drop-off or eject randomly.

Install this app - https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/31158/keep-drive-spinning

Then you won't see the HDD eject while it runs anymore

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TB - eSATA with Port Multiplier Needed