Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

Hi Everyone,


I am new to the apple forum. To be honest I am new to the whole Apple thing, being a Windows bod I managed to resist the Apple gravy train for several years before giving in and falling inline.


Now I find myself with an iphone, ipod touch, ipad 2, mac mini and apple TV 4 although not all in use yet... This brings me to my question.

What is the best home setup for sharing?


let me set the scene.

3 years ago I modernised my house and put in cat5e structured cabling throughout, all back to a comm rack in the loft. at the time I set up a powerful quad core server. I used to run my own AD domain, Exchange server (don't ask). Now the server runs Windows 7 professional with 8 HDDs running raid 5 mainly running windows media centre and I was using my xbox 360s as extenders. The view was to use Xbox's around the house to access my media. Never quite got there and things have moved on again.


After running the big Windows beast 24x7 for about 18 months I wanted to scale down again, improve data resillience and provide a simple user interface for my other half.


So after doing some initial web trawling armed and dangerous with a very small amount of knowledge and realising that I already had an amount of Apple kit to contribute towards an iTunes based mulitroom solution. The red mist came down and with credit card in hand I did some retail therapy. Not the female handbag and shoes type but the proper male tech kind.


I already had

1 x ipod touch 64GB

1 x iphone 4 32GB

1 x ipad 2 64GB wifi


And to complement the set I now have;

1 x i5 2.7GHZ, 16GB RAM, 2TB HDD Mac mini (this is the latest version which I upgraded to 2 x 1TB internal drives)

1 x 4th gen apple TV

and non Apple kit

1 x Synology DS212+ with 8TB storage raid 0

1 x Onkyo TX-NR515 AV receiver



So now comes to the ask. How best to use all of this over my home wired network?

I'm thinking I will use iTunes, I want to have some form of data backup between the Synology and the Mac mini (I want to shut down my windows server)

I also want to be able to control it all from the ipad/ipod and push media (audio and video) around the house.

The mac mini is currently plugged into one of my TVs via the AV receiever and the thought was to use the apple TV in another room, and depending of how it goes buy another 1 or 2 for other rooms.

So I have all this kit and not sure where to start and I'm not a mac expert. I know I can't use the synology box on it's own as you need itunes for the apple TVs, I don't know whether to use the Synology or the local Mac storage for the primary itunes library and then to backup to the device is so how (time capsule thing).

I don't want itunes to organise my media as I don't like the way it shuffles files around, so thinking of keeping the media files in a folder structure I am familar with and pointing iTunes at that. I also have a large amount of video files that I will probably have to convert to be capatible with iTunes, but not sure of the best way to do this, if I need to at all.


Sorry for the long waffle. Would be interested in any views, suggestions, ideas or examples of your own set ups. In return, for what it is worth I will let you know how I get on.


many thanks for your input

Posted on Sep 3, 2012 10:00 AM

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Oct 24, 2012 1:41 AM

Hi,

There are now some very interesting discussions going on this thread. Let me see if I can help with some of your questions.

1) you won't have any issues with the synology as it is a NAS device it doesn't have to be formatted in the same way as a mac. You setup a folder structure and create network shares that can be connected to from pcs ans macs alike.


2) what to serve with this is probably the biggest question with several answers depending on your preference. I have a bit of a combination going on. On the synology there are a number of ways you can share media using DNLA / upnp

So devices like Xbox or PS3 can access directly. The problem is the user interface isn't slick, jus like browsing folders.

You obviously have iTunes, great for music and multi room setups with the Apple remote app for instance. But limited when it come to movies and tv and no live tv pvr if you want that. plex is great and has a lot of supporters. I'm not an expert but i do know Plex has 2 main parts the backend server which manages the media and then the front end which is the slick user presentation. You can have these parts together on the same machine but you can now run the plex server directly on the synology which is a great idea for centrally managing your media.

I have only dabbled with plex at the moment and am sterling away as I want my solution to include live tv and pvr. This is not the main use for plex, there are some add ons which I have not tried but understand they are not as slick as some others. I will mention some more about tv later.


3) where to manage the media, this for me is where the synology comes in, I personally don't like iTunes 'managing' and 'organising' everything for me. I like to know what I have, where it is, how it's tagged and importantly want the choice to move away from iTunes at a later stage if I want to or share my media through other means at the same time.

So what I do is have a number of media shares on the synology music, movies, home videos, pictures, tv. I can shares there via upnp, DNLA. I also point a iTunes instance running on a mac mini at the same shares but I don't pull the data into the iTunes library. This gives you the full iTunes capability of streaming to other apple devices, syncing iPads etc. I have also moved the iTunes library (the actual database, album art, playlists etc) to another shared on the synology called iTunes funny enough. There are forums on how to do this but if anyone is interested I can post something.

So this way the mac mini is just a presentation device with no data on at all. So you can replace without having to find and move your data. Also another good point on this is that you can have more than one iTunes server using the same media and iTunes library/database. So instantly you get the exact same iTunes library, playlists, album art etc. on more than one iTunes server. Any updates you do appear on the others. There are some gotchas with this though. Firstly all the itunes servers need to see the same media shares. You can't edit manage the iTunes on more than one machine at a time you have to close the others while you make changes on one, once you make the changes you can then reopen the others. I have also experienced issues with doing this method between macs and pcs, I think because the sharing path for the media between macs and pcs look slightly different so when I try to use on a pc it looses the media, but I will look at this at some point.


4) home videos etc, this is where other products such as plex, media portal and xbmc come into there own. I have been playing around with a few things and am now working on XBMC, probably one of the first media centres back in the day when you could hack the black Xbox stick in a massive 120GB disk and install xbmc. Probably where Microsoft got there media centre from. Anyway I digress, xbmc does everything, music, videos, tv etc. what I particularly like is the ability to integrate live tv pvr functions into a single media centre front end. I want to ditch my bt vision box, and have everything accessible from a single interface that my mum could use.

I am currently focusing on the tv side and have been playing with a number of options. I do have a win7 server with dual tunes running media centre and media centre extender on the xboxe and want to re create this and switch that big beast off. I've played with The eyetv tuners on the mac min, ok but didn't want multiple interfaces, you can get a plax add on for eyetv but I understands it isn't the smoothest. Then I stumbled across a couple of pvr solutions that can be run on the synology as backend servers and then connected to via multiple front ends such as iPad apps, xbmc for instance. Thes are DVBLink and tvheadend, both of which can be installed on the synology and you use a USB tv tuner plugged into the synology also do there own 'video station' but ther are no media centre plugins yet.

I have tried DVBLink and tvheadend, I could not find any tv channels in tvheadend but have had success with DVBLink and also with the xbmc plugin. So I have now ordered 2 x DVBLINK-T2 tuners so I can get free view HD and plan to build this over the weekend using DVBLink and xbmc.


Now here is the really intesting part (for me anyway) xbmc runs on several platforms, not just macs and pcs. There seems to be a really version version that people have running on the rasberry pi. For those of you that don't know it is a very cheap £20 micro computer with HDMI output and smaller than the ATV. designed For education and hobbiests there is some good stuff coming out on these. I bought one a while back to have a play with and may just have found the perfect use for it.


So if this works, then I am thinking the mac mini will not need to be on much at all, and I may just use for a central music store and around the house streaming, which seems a waste for a 16GB i7 with 2 x 1TB hdd but lets see how the xbmc And the pi work out.


5) photos, again down to preference, once you have a picture share on the synology you can use what you like, plex, xbmc, synology has something called photo station. You can use one or many tools to share and present to same source.


Just a couple More points around synology if you haven't got one yet consider what you want to use it for, if you want to use it for running service on such as tv pvr etc, then pick the more powerful options, I have the ds212+ which has better processor and memory. I don't use raid anymore, I used to but decided that I still needed to have backup somewhere else and there was a big cost difference in running 4 bay synology with raid 5 (you need to use the right disks, don't use Green disks for raid so disks will be more expensive) opposed to running a 2 bay with no raid. 1 have 2 x 4TB disk so have a 8TB NAS. As I fill it up I will get a second as a backup and keep it in a different part of the house and sync them.

You can also use synology as a time machine, plus there are countless other services you can run on them such as CCTV, mail server, BitTorrent server. They are a real powerhouse.


Anyway hope you have found this useful. Happy to post more on my own progress as I go and if anyone wants anymore information on the above I will try to help.

92 replies

Dec 22, 2012 6:51 AM in response to Steven413

My Synology works extremely well as a time machine and seems to host the iTunes library flawlessley. I really like the Synology photo app and it works in terms of posting to online galleries - it takes weeks but then again I have my 1000's of images and it just sits there and does the job.


I have tried to use it with iPhoto without sucess - oddly when I first set it up it seemed to work but then stopped working - I started again it worked and again stopped. If I figure out how to do it I'll post it here.


Cheers


Steve

Dec 27, 2012 7:21 AM in response to Alex Sirota

I agree jailbroken ATV 1's aren't stable - I have found ATV 2 ok but I agree the interface is messy and does my wifes head in - on the other hand I'm still a not happy with iTunes so having got a Samsung smart TV for Christmas I have installed Plex on that and it works perfectly for straming movies from my Synology DS213 and have invested $50 in a ROKU LT Media Streamer which also runs Plex and am experimenting with using this for music. I have used an HDMI splitter to split the audio output and feed it directly into the amplifier - so I get the menu on the TV and the audio on the amplifier. So far so good and the Plex interface is simple. The only pain is you can't make playlist in Plex and have to import them from iTunes or Windows media player.


I'll keep you posted

Jan 9, 2013 12:12 PM in response to iPerfection

Hi iPerfection


Sorry it's taken sometime to reply but I decide to run through setting up my T2 290e again so i could explain how I got it working. I then found I couldn't re-activate my DVBlink software and found there technical support a little challanging to say the least.


Anyway I eventually got it working again


Getting a T2 290e TV stick to work with synology disk station (DS213).


Firstly I am only using one TV stick i did try to install 2 (not of the same type and couldn't get any form of stability when one was the T2 290e) also I first installed the T2 290e directly into a USB port on the disk station and this was also unstable. I also had to try a couple of times to get TV Source to recognise the T2 290e as on the first 2 trys it told me it was unsupported.


It has now been stable and running for a week


The working setup i now have is:


DS213 running DSM 4.1 - 2668


Powered USB 2.0 hub


pctv T2 290e (pugged into the powered hub)


DVBLink TVServer 4.5.1 (Free) (DVB Video Station must not be running)


DVB Connect! Server (Registered)


DVBLink TVSource 4.5.1 (Registered)


DVBLink EPG Loader for Digiguide (Registered)


(Worked ok with the trial versions)


There are a number of ways of watching TV


VCL for live TV (I Haven't tried it for recorded TV)


I initial used VLC to test the live TV using http://<DVBLink Server address>:<base streaming port>/mobile/?command=get_playlist_m3u


For watching TV XBMC which works well for both live and recorded TV (I have it running on a Rasberry Pi - but it works ok on a Mac too.


I wanted TV to stream to iDevices and used Plex Media Server and thin Plex clients on the IOS devices. To make recorded TV available i simply loaded the recorded TV directory (DVBLink/RecordedTV). Plex Media Server then suscessfully transcodes the .ts files and they can be watched on anything running a Plex client. Plex Media Server has to be running on a computer capable of transcoding as most synology disk stations don't have the power to do this - in my case it's running on a MiniMac Server.


I can play recorded TV on iPads (1,2, & 3), through a ROKU box onto daughters TV and on my Samsung Smart TV. It also works to on iPhones but for some reason if the recording is over 2 hours long it will not play - I have no idea why.


Hope this is of help I'd be interested to know how you get on.


Tam

Jan 9, 2013 12:35 PM in response to Alex Sirota

Hi Alex Sirota


The cost of my set-up is quite difficult to work out as the CAT 6 wiring was done at the same time as I rewired the house. One of the issues in the UK is the power allowed for wifi is less than the USA so range is lower and it is streaming more than one video would not work very well.


I put the network in to allow efficient back-up of a number of workstation and so I could access my server on which I have stored a massive collection of photographs and other work I've been involved in. I used CAT 6 because a friend who is a network engineer had 100 meters left over from a job he'd been doing on a factory and gave it to me so all my network cost was 12 CAT 6 network boxes. I would have used CAT 5e and am sure this would work fine and think putting a home neworking in would cost about under $100 if you do it your-self.


Like the network I already had the MiniMac server which is an I7 with 4MB of RAM and is about 2 years old. It origannally cost $1,000 but I'm sure a second hand one would work well.


The only things I actually bought for the media system was the DS213 and 2 x 3TB hard drives which worked at about $500 and a managed switch, in part so I could seperate my work stuff from my media, but also allowed me to priorities media streaming and this cost $100 but was a challange to set-up.


Hope this is of help


Tam

Jan 14, 2013 12:14 PM in response to iPerfection

Fantastic thread! I've got a similar setup to many of you, with a Mac Mini as home media server, but have just ordered the Synology 713+. I was pointed to the Synology by 9to5mac.com as they mentioned that the new DSM 4.2 can now stream to Apple TV. That seems to plug a gap that has come up a lot in this thread.


I opted for the 713+ as the release notes indicate that the 213+, which I originally ordered, didn't support transcoding video. I'm not sure how important that will be to me, but I want this as not only a NAS, but really a full home media server and I think I'll be able to retire/sell the Mac Mini now. I think the faster processors and more RAM may make this model a little longer-lasting, and $550 isn't so much for a good home media server...


This setup will help me cut cable with an HDTV antenna (and HomeRun) and the Apple TV for iTunes and Netflix. I think it will be simpler and easier to work with than the mini and provides a few other nice extras:


  • Share photos over the web (retire smugmug account)
  • CloudStation - like DropBox, can create for the kids who move between two households
  • Kids can also access media at either household now
  • Have a robust linux server to play around with (maybe pull some services back from Dreamhost account, nothing high-volume though)
  • Oh yeah, backups!


Thanks for all the great info!


-Tom

Jan 15, 2013 7:21 AM in response to ataylor2012

I'm updating my unit to the DSM 4.2 beta as we speak. If it really will stream to my Apple TVs, then we may have a winner here. I'm very curious about how this works. Will report back tomorrow with an update.


Yeah....this doesn't work.


What actually happens is, you start the video playing from your computer, and then there's an option to send it via Airplay to the ATV. I realize Synology is working within the very limited window of access that Apple chooses to provide, but still...this stinks. I cannot tell my wife, "You want to watch a movie? Fine, just go into the study, load up the video player on your laptop, find a movie, start it playing, click the Airplay button, pause it, come back to the media room, locate the Airplay video on ATV, and click play. Easy as pie."


Right.

May 2, 2014 3:48 PM in response to Fujita Senpai

Hi Fujita Senpai


I am using a Synologly with a mini mac over gigabit ethernet - it works perfectly - it streams to a couple of smart tv's and a Roku device - it works extremely well - I've been running my synology continuously for 2 years ditto the mini mac only rebooting for upgrades. The only addition I would recommend to the system is UPS's for both the minimac and in particular the synology as this allows the safe use of write caching that makes the system work faster. I don't know if you are aware but some synology disk stations support Plex Server - though sadly not mine.

Sep 5, 2012 12:41 AM in response to iPerfection

I am in a similar situation than you and just trying to figure out a similar setup as well.


I didn't have a Windows based server before but used my Mac Mini as central server and storage hub. My idea was similar to run OS X Server and manage everything centrally. Well let's just say I struggled for a few months trying to get things to work until I realize I'd take me considerable less time to just go around to each of the other Macs I have and update them manually. The Mac Mini as a Server idea was abandoned.


The Mac Mini has 2TB internal (self upgraded) and I had about 3 x 2TB disks hanging off it to keep all my backups and copies of copies and other non essentially stuff. This was working okay but a pain in the .... if you needed that extra space temporarily to copy something and none of the disks had enough space you started shuffeling things around for hours ... failed copies ... bla, bla, bla, not worth my time.


So anyway that's not the point here I bought a Synology DS412+ with 4 x 3TB drives and setup to RAID 10 with around 5TB usuable space (maybe a bit of an overkill but hey why not). I then proceeded to copy all my "stuff" from my external disks and Mac Mini onto the DS clearing out copies and ended up with ~ 2.5TB.


So now I am at the same point where I have a free Mac Mini and Synology DS that somehow now building the backbone of my home enterainment network serving 2 x iMacs, 1 x Macbook Pro, 2 x iPads, 2 x iPhones and 1 x AppleTV. With expansion on the horizon for another iPad and AppleTV ... Apple must love familes with kids!


I have tried to use some of the Synology iTunes Server and Media Server but that doesn't seem to work out very well for me. They seem to more catered for people who don't have any Apple gear which i think has media sharing capabilities build in like Home Sharing and Airplay, etc


I am thinking I am better off to let the Mac Mini be the master off serving stuff in my environment, possible hook it up to my lounge TV, and let the Synology box just be the central storage.


So let's see if we can figure out how this is all suppossed to work, shall we?

Oct 19, 2012 6:33 AM in response to iPerfection

I really like this thread! I'm almost in the same situation...


I've a brand new Synology DS413J, and I just started to store all my movies and tvshows on it.Via ethernet and Time Capsule it streams this content to an ATV 2 black (actually pimped 😉) and everything works fine (XBMC, Media Player, Plex) with covers, synopsys, various infos.


Movies and Tv Shows are also shared via DLNA to another TV, in another room. The front end is not so nice, but I can stand it.


Now I'd like to move my iTunes Library from my iMac to the NAS, in order to have all the devices linked to this new library (iMac, iPads, iPhones, Macbooks etc). Is it a good choice? I'd like to have all the music stored on my NAS, freeing space on desktop and laptops. What do you think?


I've to say that I am also a iTunes Match subscriber, and I stream music from the Cloud to the Apple TV (and finally to the amplifier) and to an Airport Express (and finally to another ampli).


Thnak you for your attention and sorry for my english.

Oct 22, 2012 11:54 PM in response to iPerfection

I've been looking at whether to buy Mac mini or apple tv or synology, but dont own any of them yet. And so I wondered if any of you could suggest genuinely "how to start" for someone who really has yet to start. I need movies on the tv, music and photos available on any of our several macs, and music generally about the place but I'm not sure through what yet. We have about 350GB of music and movies to date, plus bucketloads of photos.


Hope you can suggest the best way forward.

Oct 23, 2012 3:31 AM in response to aschmid

There's something unsettling about having to have the iMac sitting awake to serve up media, and so I am attracted to the idea of the mac mini. (Is that right?) I only have one TV so if I plugged it into the mini I wouldn't even need an AppleTV?


But I also have this utopian vision of unburdening myself from the desk-bound iMac and giving each of my family a laptop each, and that has me thinking NAS. But if I can't make proper use of iTunes music, then that seems wrong.


Does this suggest a mac mini server, which offers 2x 500GB drives? Can it be my NAS file storage as well as media centre? How's the server version differ in day to day use, anyway?


So confusing, too many almost-right options, seemingly no perfect ones.

Oct 23, 2012 10:05 PM in response to aschmid

Great thread all! I have been wrestling with this very topic for several months now. I've read every thread I could find on the topic, asked questions etc but still have not come to a final decision. But I am getting close ... I think.

First, a little background. I am starting from primarily pc household and converting to an all Apple infrastructure. From the Apple world, we already have 2 iPhones and 3 iPads. New iPhone 5 on order and ... today at last Apple has announced the new iMacs. Exactly what I have been waiting for and so my intent is to purchase one each of the smaller and larger as they come out next month and the month after. My router is beginning to show signs of age and so I would also like to move to an Airport Extreme. The PC hard drive housing my iTunes library is nearly full and so I need to move the library to a new location, preferable an external, networkable location and I've been looking at the Synology 1812 for this purpose. So, in the end I have or would like to soon have:

  • 3 iPads
  • 3 iPhones
  • 2 iMacs
  • 1 AppleTV 3 with a plan to one or two more. If they would only add the Amazon Prime app and RF remote capabilities it would be nearly perfect.
  • 2 PS3s and 1 XBox360 but I much prefer the ATV interface for media. PS3 remains the place for the Amazon app because ATV doesn't provide.
  • 1 Airport Extreme
  • House is already wired and homerunned with Cat-6
  • Plan to add Synology 1812 with 3 or 4 3TB drives to start and use the Synology Hybrid Raid


Open items or questions for me:

1. Will I have any issues if I purchase the Synology, move the iTunes library from my current PC to it and then remove the PC from the picture once I have an iMac in place? I understand that Apple does not utilize the same hard drive formatting structure as pc but I am not sure this would matter for an external device accessed over a network.

2. What am I going to serve with? I like iTunes and I am used to it. I would like something that works well with the ATV and it does that. Plex seems to have potential but would then make ATV useless unless hckd. All of my music is in iTunes now, including ripped, iTunes purchased and Amazon purchased. I have put many tv shows and some films into it as well, utilizing Handbrake to do so when needed.

3. Synology for storage, backup, redundancy etc but from where do I want to manage media / serve from? I realize I can do it from one or even both of the iMacs. I had been thinking that I wanted a low power, always on solution that would negate the need to have an IMac always on, something similar to the HP MediaSmart Server I've been using at home for a number of years, albeit clunkily. This is where I thought the Mac Mini might come in (once I learned that the Synology iTunes server was really not a true iTunes server). Low power, always on, can be running iTunes on it etc. But this thread and aschmid's comments have me rethinking this. Maybe I won't be shutting down my iMac all that much and maybe it isn't difficult to wake it so that it can address serving duties.

4. How would I address the storage of home videos vs films and tv shows? I don't want iTunes managing home videos ... do I? Still want them sitting on the Synology - right? Did you all create a separate folder on the Synology for home videos? I know there is a default videos folder. there. And are you serving via iPhoto, Aperture or something else?

5. How about photos? I would like my photo library housed on the Synology as well. Is that served via iPhoto or Aperture to the ATV? How are the mutiple entry points addressed? Everyone in the family is taking pictures, videos etc and all of iCloud turned on. How do I insure that a clean copy of every picture and video taken with any iPhone, iPad, digital camera, digital camcorder etc all ends up centrally located and accessible on the Synology without it becoming too manual a process?


Sorry about the long windedness of this. I got on a bit of a roll once I began typing. This has been on my mind for some time and I am happy to have come across this thread.

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Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

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