Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

Hi Everyone,


I am new to the apple forum. To be honest I am new to the whole Apple thing, being a Windows bod I managed to resist the Apple gravy train for several years before giving in and falling inline.


Now I find myself with an iphone, ipod touch, ipad 2, mac mini and apple TV 4 although not all in use yet... This brings me to my question.

What is the best home setup for sharing?


let me set the scene.

3 years ago I modernised my house and put in cat5e structured cabling throughout, all back to a comm rack in the loft. at the time I set up a powerful quad core server. I used to run my own AD domain, Exchange server (don't ask). Now the server runs Windows 7 professional with 8 HDDs running raid 5 mainly running windows media centre and I was using my xbox 360s as extenders. The view was to use Xbox's around the house to access my media. Never quite got there and things have moved on again.


After running the big Windows beast 24x7 for about 18 months I wanted to scale down again, improve data resillience and provide a simple user interface for my other half.


So after doing some initial web trawling armed and dangerous with a very small amount of knowledge and realising that I already had an amount of Apple kit to contribute towards an iTunes based mulitroom solution. The red mist came down and with credit card in hand I did some retail therapy. Not the female handbag and shoes type but the proper male tech kind.


I already had

1 x ipod touch 64GB

1 x iphone 4 32GB

1 x ipad 2 64GB wifi


And to complement the set I now have;

1 x i5 2.7GHZ, 16GB RAM, 2TB HDD Mac mini (this is the latest version which I upgraded to 2 x 1TB internal drives)

1 x 4th gen apple TV

and non Apple kit

1 x Synology DS212+ with 8TB storage raid 0

1 x Onkyo TX-NR515 AV receiver



So now comes to the ask. How best to use all of this over my home wired network?

I'm thinking I will use iTunes, I want to have some form of data backup between the Synology and the Mac mini (I want to shut down my windows server)

I also want to be able to control it all from the ipad/ipod and push media (audio and video) around the house.

The mac mini is currently plugged into one of my TVs via the AV receiever and the thought was to use the apple TV in another room, and depending of how it goes buy another 1 or 2 for other rooms.

So I have all this kit and not sure where to start and I'm not a mac expert. I know I can't use the synology box on it's own as you need itunes for the apple TVs, I don't know whether to use the Synology or the local Mac storage for the primary itunes library and then to backup to the device is so how (time capsule thing).

I don't want itunes to organise my media as I don't like the way it shuffles files around, so thinking of keeping the media files in a folder structure I am familar with and pointing iTunes at that. I also have a large amount of video files that I will probably have to convert to be capatible with iTunes, but not sure of the best way to do this, if I need to at all.


Sorry for the long waffle. Would be interested in any views, suggestions, ideas or examples of your own set ups. In return, for what it is worth I will let you know how I get on.


many thanks for your input

Posted on Sep 3, 2012 10:00 AM

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Posted on Oct 24, 2012 1:41 AM

Hi,

There are now some very interesting discussions going on this thread. Let me see if I can help with some of your questions.

1) you won't have any issues with the synology as it is a NAS device it doesn't have to be formatted in the same way as a mac. You setup a folder structure and create network shares that can be connected to from pcs ans macs alike.


2) what to serve with this is probably the biggest question with several answers depending on your preference. I have a bit of a combination going on. On the synology there are a number of ways you can share media using DNLA / upnp

So devices like Xbox or PS3 can access directly. The problem is the user interface isn't slick, jus like browsing folders.

You obviously have iTunes, great for music and multi room setups with the Apple remote app for instance. But limited when it come to movies and tv and no live tv pvr if you want that. plex is great and has a lot of supporters. I'm not an expert but i do know Plex has 2 main parts the backend server which manages the media and then the front end which is the slick user presentation. You can have these parts together on the same machine but you can now run the plex server directly on the synology which is a great idea for centrally managing your media.

I have only dabbled with plex at the moment and am sterling away as I want my solution to include live tv and pvr. This is not the main use for plex, there are some add ons which I have not tried but understand they are not as slick as some others. I will mention some more about tv later.


3) where to manage the media, this for me is where the synology comes in, I personally don't like iTunes 'managing' and 'organising' everything for me. I like to know what I have, where it is, how it's tagged and importantly want the choice to move away from iTunes at a later stage if I want to or share my media through other means at the same time.

So what I do is have a number of media shares on the synology music, movies, home videos, pictures, tv. I can shares there via upnp, DNLA. I also point a iTunes instance running on a mac mini at the same shares but I don't pull the data into the iTunes library. This gives you the full iTunes capability of streaming to other apple devices, syncing iPads etc. I have also moved the iTunes library (the actual database, album art, playlists etc) to another shared on the synology called iTunes funny enough. There are forums on how to do this but if anyone is interested I can post something.

So this way the mac mini is just a presentation device with no data on at all. So you can replace without having to find and move your data. Also another good point on this is that you can have more than one iTunes server using the same media and iTunes library/database. So instantly you get the exact same iTunes library, playlists, album art etc. on more than one iTunes server. Any updates you do appear on the others. There are some gotchas with this though. Firstly all the itunes servers need to see the same media shares. You can't edit manage the iTunes on more than one machine at a time you have to close the others while you make changes on one, once you make the changes you can then reopen the others. I have also experienced issues with doing this method between macs and pcs, I think because the sharing path for the media between macs and pcs look slightly different so when I try to use on a pc it looses the media, but I will look at this at some point.


4) home videos etc, this is where other products such as plex, media portal and xbmc come into there own. I have been playing around with a few things and am now working on XBMC, probably one of the first media centres back in the day when you could hack the black Xbox stick in a massive 120GB disk and install xbmc. Probably where Microsoft got there media centre from. Anyway I digress, xbmc does everything, music, videos, tv etc. what I particularly like is the ability to integrate live tv pvr functions into a single media centre front end. I want to ditch my bt vision box, and have everything accessible from a single interface that my mum could use.

I am currently focusing on the tv side and have been playing with a number of options. I do have a win7 server with dual tunes running media centre and media centre extender on the xboxe and want to re create this and switch that big beast off. I've played with The eyetv tuners on the mac min, ok but didn't want multiple interfaces, you can get a plax add on for eyetv but I understands it isn't the smoothest. Then I stumbled across a couple of pvr solutions that can be run on the synology as backend servers and then connected to via multiple front ends such as iPad apps, xbmc for instance. Thes are DVBLink and tvheadend, both of which can be installed on the synology and you use a USB tv tuner plugged into the synology also do there own 'video station' but ther are no media centre plugins yet.

I have tried DVBLink and tvheadend, I could not find any tv channels in tvheadend but have had success with DVBLink and also with the xbmc plugin. So I have now ordered 2 x DVBLINK-T2 tuners so I can get free view HD and plan to build this over the weekend using DVBLink and xbmc.


Now here is the really intesting part (for me anyway) xbmc runs on several platforms, not just macs and pcs. There seems to be a really version version that people have running on the rasberry pi. For those of you that don't know it is a very cheap £20 micro computer with HDMI output and smaller than the ATV. designed For education and hobbiests there is some good stuff coming out on these. I bought one a while back to have a play with and may just have found the perfect use for it.


So if this works, then I am thinking the mac mini will not need to be on much at all, and I may just use for a central music store and around the house streaming, which seems a waste for a 16GB i7 with 2 x 1TB hdd but lets see how the xbmc And the pi work out.


5) photos, again down to preference, once you have a picture share on the synology you can use what you like, plex, xbmc, synology has something called photo station. You can use one or many tools to share and present to same source.


Just a couple More points around synology if you haven't got one yet consider what you want to use it for, if you want to use it for running service on such as tv pvr etc, then pick the more powerful options, I have the ds212+ which has better processor and memory. I don't use raid anymore, I used to but decided that I still needed to have backup somewhere else and there was a big cost difference in running 4 bay synology with raid 5 (you need to use the right disks, don't use Green disks for raid so disks will be more expensive) opposed to running a 2 bay with no raid. 1 have 2 x 4TB disk so have a 8TB NAS. As I fill it up I will get a second as a backup and keep it in a different part of the house and sync them.

You can also use synology as a time machine, plus there are countless other services you can run on them such as CCTV, mail server, BitTorrent server. They are a real powerhouse.


Anyway hope you have found this useful. Happy to post more on my own progress as I go and if anyone wants anymore information on the above I will try to help.

92 replies

Oct 24, 2012 12:54 AM in response to Tpx

@TPX: Ah yes of course. If i could store all my content locally why would I need a Synology box? The issue is I don't have enough storage on my Macs so I move the iTunes library to a central storage (Synology NAS) so it becomes accessible from all the Macs I have. Isn't that why you consider having a NAS in the first place?

Oct 24, 2012 1:49 AM in response to aschmid

Yes, I'd like to move my iTunes library on the NAS, but I have to be sure that it can work! Thank You.


On the other hand I'm a little worried about moving my IPHOTO library on the NAS. They say that the library needs to sit on a disk formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled)... Did you move your iPhoto library to the NAS?

Nov 14, 2012 6:58 PM in response to Forcefour

BTW - somone in another forum indicated the following. Is this true? Maybe I am misunderstanding but I thought that this is one of the items we have been discussing as an option.


iTunes requires that the iTunes Library folders be on a local drive. By that I mean the xml files must be on a drive connected to your computer, it cannot reside on a network drive. You can store all of your media on a network drive, and everything will work just fine.

Nov 16, 2012 7:06 PM in response to iPerfection

iPerfection & aschmid - thank you both. This thread has been a good one, as has another similar one on MacRumors. I think I'm ready to go.


iPerfection - as for step 4, I was referencing the new iMacs that are supposed to be coming out this month (21.5") and next (27.5"). So far - only the 'Coming Soon' banner is available on the Apple Store. I am awaiting this availability in order to move the house fully to a Mac environment. For now - I am running iTunes on a PC that is running out of space, hence my need to move the medial library to something else ... pretty much now.

I have some nice, rather inexpensive D-Link 8-port switches in play now. The've been great but will not be able to take advantage of the linka aggregation.


aschmid - I do have other devices connected so my switches, some that move quite a bit of information but not necessarily to the Synology. I have four DirecTV DVRS with 1-2TB external hard drives connected to each with plenty of recorded HD. As they are all connected together via the DirecTV whole house setup I am moving HD around the house. Guessing that because they would not be moving anything to or from the Synology the linka aggregation woudl not come into play but I was thinking that the link aggregation might make things easier for the devices that do utilize it in light of the other data moving around. May not be the case - I may just like the idea of being able to move that around if needed. What is the kind of thing that would take advantage of link aggregation?

Nov 30, 2012 7:19 PM in response to andrew.in.Boston

andrew.in.Boston wrote:


Hi, I just found this thread. I've been wrestling with some of the issues raised here.


My specific question: I have a >1 TB of imaging files that I would like to be network accessible by my MBP. If price is not an issue, what's faster, a higher end Synology v. a RAID directly attaced to a Mac Mini, running as a server?


Any thoughts out there?

Dec 7, 2012 7:47 AM in response to ataylor2012

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. My use for the NAS is probably not as complicated/demanding as the other uses described. I'm mainly interested in storing my images (>1 TB). I'm not planning on doing anything with streaming or iTunes.


So on a speed basis, in terms of accessing the files, copying, transferring, which one's faster: the Mac Mini set up or the one with the Synology?

Dec 7, 2012 7:51 AM in response to andrew.in.Boston

They're probably about the same. The Drobo might be a bit faster if it's already spun up; it's basically a big honkin' external hard disk.


But personally I think the "access from anywhere" aspect of the NAS makes any potential (and very slight) speed hit worth it. On my home network from my personal machine (MacBook Pro via WiFi, everything else hard-wired) there is no discernible difference. The Synology actually reacts a bit faster, since it doesn't have to go through a separate computer like the Drobo does; read and write speeds are limited (I think) by the WiFi portion of the connection, not the hard-wired portion, anyway.

Dec 13, 2012 4:02 AM in response to iPerfection

I'm really struggling with my mac mini synology set up

Have moved everything to the music folder on the disc station and pointed iTunes at it in preferences advanced

Works swimmingly for a while then loses it

Get messages about server interruption when it's still showing on desktop then it's unable to find library at all

Sometimes the advanced preference library location turns blank and then the library doesn't seem accessible from the mac despite still being there

Going round in circles

Help

Dec 13, 2012 1:09 PM in response to doh

Maybe. I have this issue with virtual machines that are located on the Synology box. I mount the share where they are on and then start them up with Parallels. In pre-10.8 OS X if the local system would go to sleep it would just put the virtual machine to sleep as well and if you wake it up again the vm would wakeup too and all good.


In 10.8 however if the local system goes to sleep it somehow messes up the share connection. When i wake up the system the vm is frozen and I can't even dismount the share which is in an unknown state. I have to reboot the local system in order to get back to a clean slate.


I have read somewhere that 10.8 has a lot of under the hood changes getting rid of some previous legacy stuff and one of them was network which had to be rewritten. I guess there are still a few bugs in that.


if you problem is similar you might try going back to 10.7 for you mac mini.

Dec 18, 2012 9:34 PM in response to Forcefour

Forcefour and anyone who can help,


I have a similar setup. I have a Synology DS-1812+ populated with Hitachi 4TB drives & CAT-6A, Apple TV 2nd & 3rd generation, a couple of iPad 3'ss & iPhone 5's. I have a stand-alone PC running iTunes 11 with Home Sharing turned on. I'm running iTunes server on the Synology NAS.


My question is, doesn't iTunes running Home Sharing "re-shared" the Shared Library it sees coming from the Synology iTunes server? On the ATV and the iPads I can only see movies, TV shows, and videos that are hosted on the PCs own iTunes library; I can't see anything from the NAS Shared Library on the ATV or the iPads.


I could use the NAS to host a directory from iTunes on the PC which would make it appear to all the other devices that the library was residing on the iTunes PC's own hard disk even though it would be on the NAS, but I was under the impression that iTunes could share (play files) from the ATV with content on the NAS because its running the iTunes server? In other words "re-share" content.


What am I missing? Thanks!

Dec 21, 2012 5:45 PM in response to TamThread

To all who have contibuted to this thread - THANK YOU. I somehow missed this and posted a lot fo similar questions here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4610827?answerId=20622343022#20622343022


At this time, I think I'm going to do the following:


1. Get the Synology 413j NAS

2. I will use the NAS for: Time Machine Backups, Hosting my iTunes audio and video library and for iPhoto. I am curious to those who have used iPhoto with a NAS - I keep seeing conflicting statements - it works/it doesn't work. If it doesn't - then I think I will still "park" my final editied images on it and also post to some gallery online - or maybe use the Synology photo option - looks "ok".

3. Apple TV - keep as is -just have it pull from iTunes library off of NAS


Love to hear any thoughts as to how your setups are working. Hoping to pull the trigger in next few days. Also, I think I've accepted if iPhoto doesn't work well (open to any other catalog/editing software BTW) then I will just import photos as I need to and edit them and move them to external storage. Phew...moving to 256SSD is cool but wow do you need to figure out "where" to put stuff.


Thanks.


Steve

Dec 25, 2012 7:26 PM in response to iPerfection

Does this imply that it almost doesn't matter what server nas that one gets, although I am considering a synology dsm, the itunes server on it will only show up as a passive shared library and cannot be used to directly stream to an apple tv. The only way to do that is to have an awake mac with its itunes library pointed to to the synology.


Can someone confirm this please.

Dec 26, 2012 7:02 AM in response to MMoxley

My setup includes an older (circa-2006) Mac Mini, running headless and whose sole purpose is serving content to Apple TVs. I use a MacBook Pro, and until a few days ago, I was the only user of that particular machine.


On a whim, I set my 10-year-old son up a user account on the MBP so he could play a few games without monkeying around with my stuff, and it now occurs to me to ask:What would happen if I/he opened iTunes while logged in to his account? Would he see the same iTunes library I see on my account? Or would he get a blank slate?


If the answer is, "He gets a blank slate," then why couldn't some content - i.e. children's movies, music, etc. - be moved out of the main iTunes library (mine) and put into a separate iTunes library (his), and then both of them be set to share? Would attached Apple TVs then see two shared libraries (assuming both accounts are logged in)?

Dec 26, 2012 11:23 AM in response to kap_australia

@ Kap

You are correct that the iTunes on the Synology will not directly dtream to the ATV. There are work arrounds to this, but nothing that I have done myself.


@ ataylor2012

I was under the impression that the ATV could not access a itunes account unless that user was logged in. I'll test to see if that can be done. If it can, the different user accounts could be set with different content.


@ TamThread

You can have fully seperate accounts with different content on the itunes libary. The issue is accessing those libaries.

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Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

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