Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

Hi Everyone,


I am new to the apple forum. To be honest I am new to the whole Apple thing, being a Windows bod I managed to resist the Apple gravy train for several years before giving in and falling inline.


Now I find myself with an iphone, ipod touch, ipad 2, mac mini and apple TV 4 although not all in use yet... This brings me to my question.

What is the best home setup for sharing?


let me set the scene.

3 years ago I modernised my house and put in cat5e structured cabling throughout, all back to a comm rack in the loft. at the time I set up a powerful quad core server. I used to run my own AD domain, Exchange server (don't ask). Now the server runs Windows 7 professional with 8 HDDs running raid 5 mainly running windows media centre and I was using my xbox 360s as extenders. The view was to use Xbox's around the house to access my media. Never quite got there and things have moved on again.


After running the big Windows beast 24x7 for about 18 months I wanted to scale down again, improve data resillience and provide a simple user interface for my other half.


So after doing some initial web trawling armed and dangerous with a very small amount of knowledge and realising that I already had an amount of Apple kit to contribute towards an iTunes based mulitroom solution. The red mist came down and with credit card in hand I did some retail therapy. Not the female handbag and shoes type but the proper male tech kind.


I already had

1 x ipod touch 64GB

1 x iphone 4 32GB

1 x ipad 2 64GB wifi


And to complement the set I now have;

1 x i5 2.7GHZ, 16GB RAM, 2TB HDD Mac mini (this is the latest version which I upgraded to 2 x 1TB internal drives)

1 x 4th gen apple TV

and non Apple kit

1 x Synology DS212+ with 8TB storage raid 0

1 x Onkyo TX-NR515 AV receiver



So now comes to the ask. How best to use all of this over my home wired network?

I'm thinking I will use iTunes, I want to have some form of data backup between the Synology and the Mac mini (I want to shut down my windows server)

I also want to be able to control it all from the ipad/ipod and push media (audio and video) around the house.

The mac mini is currently plugged into one of my TVs via the AV receiever and the thought was to use the apple TV in another room, and depending of how it goes buy another 1 or 2 for other rooms.

So I have all this kit and not sure where to start and I'm not a mac expert. I know I can't use the synology box on it's own as you need itunes for the apple TVs, I don't know whether to use the Synology or the local Mac storage for the primary itunes library and then to backup to the device is so how (time capsule thing).

I don't want itunes to organise my media as I don't like the way it shuffles files around, so thinking of keeping the media files in a folder structure I am familar with and pointing iTunes at that. I also have a large amount of video files that I will probably have to convert to be capatible with iTunes, but not sure of the best way to do this, if I need to at all.


Sorry for the long waffle. Would be interested in any views, suggestions, ideas or examples of your own set ups. In return, for what it is worth I will let you know how I get on.


many thanks for your input

Posted on Sep 3, 2012 10:00 AM

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Posted on Oct 24, 2012 1:41 AM

Hi,

There are now some very interesting discussions going on this thread. Let me see if I can help with some of your questions.

1) you won't have any issues with the synology as it is a NAS device it doesn't have to be formatted in the same way as a mac. You setup a folder structure and create network shares that can be connected to from pcs ans macs alike.


2) what to serve with this is probably the biggest question with several answers depending on your preference. I have a bit of a combination going on. On the synology there are a number of ways you can share media using DNLA / upnp

So devices like Xbox or PS3 can access directly. The problem is the user interface isn't slick, jus like browsing folders.

You obviously have iTunes, great for music and multi room setups with the Apple remote app for instance. But limited when it come to movies and tv and no live tv pvr if you want that. plex is great and has a lot of supporters. I'm not an expert but i do know Plex has 2 main parts the backend server which manages the media and then the front end which is the slick user presentation. You can have these parts together on the same machine but you can now run the plex server directly on the synology which is a great idea for centrally managing your media.

I have only dabbled with plex at the moment and am sterling away as I want my solution to include live tv and pvr. This is not the main use for plex, there are some add ons which I have not tried but understand they are not as slick as some others. I will mention some more about tv later.


3) where to manage the media, this for me is where the synology comes in, I personally don't like iTunes 'managing' and 'organising' everything for me. I like to know what I have, where it is, how it's tagged and importantly want the choice to move away from iTunes at a later stage if I want to or share my media through other means at the same time.

So what I do is have a number of media shares on the synology music, movies, home videos, pictures, tv. I can shares there via upnp, DNLA. I also point a iTunes instance running on a mac mini at the same shares but I don't pull the data into the iTunes library. This gives you the full iTunes capability of streaming to other apple devices, syncing iPads etc. I have also moved the iTunes library (the actual database, album art, playlists etc) to another shared on the synology called iTunes funny enough. There are forums on how to do this but if anyone is interested I can post something.

So this way the mac mini is just a presentation device with no data on at all. So you can replace without having to find and move your data. Also another good point on this is that you can have more than one iTunes server using the same media and iTunes library/database. So instantly you get the exact same iTunes library, playlists, album art etc. on more than one iTunes server. Any updates you do appear on the others. There are some gotchas with this though. Firstly all the itunes servers need to see the same media shares. You can't edit manage the iTunes on more than one machine at a time you have to close the others while you make changes on one, once you make the changes you can then reopen the others. I have also experienced issues with doing this method between macs and pcs, I think because the sharing path for the media between macs and pcs look slightly different so when I try to use on a pc it looses the media, but I will look at this at some point.


4) home videos etc, this is where other products such as plex, media portal and xbmc come into there own. I have been playing around with a few things and am now working on XBMC, probably one of the first media centres back in the day when you could hack the black Xbox stick in a massive 120GB disk and install xbmc. Probably where Microsoft got there media centre from. Anyway I digress, xbmc does everything, music, videos, tv etc. what I particularly like is the ability to integrate live tv pvr functions into a single media centre front end. I want to ditch my bt vision box, and have everything accessible from a single interface that my mum could use.

I am currently focusing on the tv side and have been playing with a number of options. I do have a win7 server with dual tunes running media centre and media centre extender on the xboxe and want to re create this and switch that big beast off. I've played with The eyetv tuners on the mac min, ok but didn't want multiple interfaces, you can get a plax add on for eyetv but I understands it isn't the smoothest. Then I stumbled across a couple of pvr solutions that can be run on the synology as backend servers and then connected to via multiple front ends such as iPad apps, xbmc for instance. Thes are DVBLink and tvheadend, both of which can be installed on the synology and you use a USB tv tuner plugged into the synology also do there own 'video station' but ther are no media centre plugins yet.

I have tried DVBLink and tvheadend, I could not find any tv channels in tvheadend but have had success with DVBLink and also with the xbmc plugin. So I have now ordered 2 x DVBLINK-T2 tuners so I can get free view HD and plan to build this over the weekend using DVBLink and xbmc.


Now here is the really intesting part (for me anyway) xbmc runs on several platforms, not just macs and pcs. There seems to be a really version version that people have running on the rasberry pi. For those of you that don't know it is a very cheap £20 micro computer with HDMI output and smaller than the ATV. designed For education and hobbiests there is some good stuff coming out on these. I bought one a while back to have a play with and may just have found the perfect use for it.


So if this works, then I am thinking the mac mini will not need to be on much at all, and I may just use for a central music store and around the house streaming, which seems a waste for a 16GB i7 with 2 x 1TB hdd but lets see how the xbmc And the pi work out.


5) photos, again down to preference, once you have a picture share on the synology you can use what you like, plex, xbmc, synology has something called photo station. You can use one or many tools to share and present to same source.


Just a couple More points around synology if you haven't got one yet consider what you want to use it for, if you want to use it for running service on such as tv pvr etc, then pick the more powerful options, I have the ds212+ which has better processor and memory. I don't use raid anymore, I used to but decided that I still needed to have backup somewhere else and there was a big cost difference in running 4 bay synology with raid 5 (you need to use the right disks, don't use Green disks for raid so disks will be more expensive) opposed to running a 2 bay with no raid. 1 have 2 x 4TB disk so have a 8TB NAS. As I fill it up I will get a second as a backup and keep it in a different part of the house and sync them.

You can also use synology as a time machine, plus there are countless other services you can run on them such as CCTV, mail server, BitTorrent server. They are a real powerhouse.


Anyway hope you have found this useful. Happy to post more on my own progress as I go and if anyone wants anymore information on the above I will try to help.

92 replies

Dec 27, 2012 7:45 AM in response to TamThread

Wow so Samsung is now running Plex client huh? Plex Server is now also available on ARM and Intel based Synology too I just found out (it was not a few months ago and could ONLY be run on Intel based DSs).... Looks like AppleTV may be a thing of the past once Plex app becomes as ubiquitous as the Netflix app


http://www.plexapp.com/getplex/

and on Samsungs


http://plexforsamsung.pbworks.com/w/page/40757181/Home


Wow!

Dec 27, 2012 3:33 PM in response to ataylor2012

So it turns out that my son gets a completely "fresh" iTunes install on his user account on my MBP. I added a few items to it and turned on home sharing using the same AppleID I've used for the other home shares, and sure enough, I get multiple libraries to choose from on the new 3G ATV. So there's that.


The upshot of this is (particularly for MMoxley above) that mulitple user accounts could be set up with iTunes libraries containing only a subset of iTunes media - say "Kids Movies," "Home Movies," etc. - and then each one can be shared. This would provide a smaller library to surf through when browsing.


Doesn't solve my "having to use iTunes" problem tho.

Dec 31, 2012 4:11 PM in response to rock15478

I haven't used Plex specifically to airplay but I have used other apps. The quality of an airplay stream has always been inferior in my experimentation. Principally I also dislike using a device a as an airplay server when the hardware exists to play the stream directly. Despite the dilemma, I still think that having itunes running is the best possible solution. Perhaps when something small like a raspberry pi can have itunes installed onto it may be the most power efficient way if you do not want a fully fledged mac os running.

Jan 2, 2013 12:34 PM in response to rock15478

Rock15478,


It sounds like you're doing something similar to what I am. That is, I have a Synology 1812+ and am using it more as a file repository for my iTunes running on a separate Windows PC to serve up media content to my Apple TV 3 as a media server PC. I'd like to get the PC out of the equation entirely, but that doesn't seem possible yet.


I also would have like to use one box (the Synology) to stream to the ATV 3 with something like Plex, but I definitely don't want the hassle of jailbreaking the ATV 3 (if/when that's ever an option), The Synology iTunes server can't stream video content by itself either. As a solution it would be great if Synology could update their iTunes server to simply stream video content and "act" like iTunes 11 so that the ATV wouldn't know the difference.


There is also the route of a different media player (such as the Dune HD Smart D1) with some really incredible specs, but then I'd forfeit the ability to rent movies via iTunes, or the ability for anyone to play something quickyl via AirPlay on their Phones/iPads. Plus, the GUI of the ATV makes things easy for the entire family.

Jan 2, 2013 12:39 PM in response to VitoA

I'm no developer, but it seems like one potential solution would be to get an iTunes instance running on the Synology, and have that serve the Apple TV units. Does anyone know if that's even possible? What OS does the Synology run? Is there a way to run a VM on it? If so, could the VM not run an actual iTunes installation (either Mac or Windows) and share its library?


I'm talking out my arse here. I have no idea whether this is even remotely possible.

Jan 2, 2013 2:14 PM in response to kap_australia

I did a quick search after asking the question; doesn't look like it's currently possible to run a VM under the Synology OS. Perhaps the way to go is to "emulate" an iTunes instance in Linux, and then run that on the Synology. Again, I have no idea whether this is in fact possible. Somebody smarter than me will have to figure that out.


Another quick search reveals that 32-bit iTunes for Windows will run under WINE on Linux. So, the next question becomes can one install WINE on the Synology units? Again - no idea here. Just spitballing.

Jan 3, 2013 6:53 AM in response to kap_australia

"Merty" is no longer actively developing his Synolgoy packages, but I contacted him nevertheless and asked him what he thought of this whole endeavour. Will update when/if I hear back from him.


His blog provides links to several other "custom" Synology package repositories, though, all of which I found very interesting. I had no idea there were other, non-official package repositories out there. There's some cool, useful stuff, too - like SabNZB and Sickbeard, two apps I use regularly on another PC - along with some other stuff. Clearly there are people out there who know how to re-package stuff into a format the Synology can handle.


So, the question remains: Can iTunes be "re-factored" to run on Synology? I don't think it would even have to be a full iTunes installation; all that would really be needed is whatever portion of iTunes "talks" to the Apple TV units or marks the library as "shared." Wouldn't even have to be iTunes, I suppose, if one could figure out how to fool the ATV units into believing they were talking to an iTunes instance.


For the umpteenth time - I'm just talking out loud here; I'm not a programmer and have no idea how to actually implement any of this. I just throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks.

Jan 5, 2013 11:46 AM in response to TamThread

Hi Tam,

Looks very smilar to my setup

I am interested to know how you have got on this the dvblink software and the pctv nanostick

I had the same thing with a pair of pctv t2 290e sticks but couldnt get it stable. The software would hang due to the tv tuners. I didnt get anywhere with the software support. I eventually tried different tuners which work ok but no t2 only dvd-t

It would be really good to know what build you have, synology version and if you had any issues getting this working.

Also what software do you use to access the recorded/live tv.

Jan 9, 2013 1:37 PM in response to TamThread

Very helpful Tam. The wiring of CAT6 is usually the most expensive piece I find depending on the size of the job. To wire up 10 rooms costs about $1500-2000 for the job so about $150 per room with materials and labour all in.


So I am reading that the setup is about $1500 for hardware and about $150 per room for wiring. If you have wifi that probably can be done for under $200 for a decent Wireless N router. You neglected the AppleTV cost, which is about $100 at least.


For many a $2000 investment (taxes or VAT all in) in a home entertainment system of the likes you have is prohibitive. If you want to wire it ends up being over $3000 depending on the size of the home.


This is why an AppleTV solution without a server is really the only scalable business model. A $500 NAS with a decent router and AppleTV at $100 each should be under a $1000 investment (onetime) and that's probably as much as anyone would ever want to pay.


Many reuse equipment that is no longer used elsewhere (macmini) but that is not an option for most.


A solution that is AppleTV-based with an inexpensive 1 hard drive NAS for under $300 for the NAS+AppleTV would sell like crazy in my mind. That would require a NAS to be about $200 with a hard drive which is not feasible now. This is what I think Roku is aiming for. Most people use NAS's for media streaming with backup being a distance 2nd or 3rd in usefulness and actual use.


Thanks again!

Jan 9, 2013 1:50 PM in response to Alex Sirota

I agree a combination of an Apple TV and a 1 disk NAS is ideal and would sell like hot cakes, this is where ROKU has the advantage of being able to run Plex


Most people seem to ignor backing up - friends seem to regulary come to me to recover their presious music and photo. I'm fanatically about backing up as the my first experience with hard drives was in the late 1970's and they were huge and had a 5 MB capacity and failed every few weeks. I back-up everything to another NAS off-site using Rsync

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Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start

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