Extensis Suitcase 10.2.2 problem(s) - HELP PLEASE!

Question

Extensis Suitcase 10.2.2 problem(s) - HELP PLEASE!

Okay, here goes... I have done lots of reading on these forums and on the Extensis support pages and have answered some of my issues, but now have a new interesting development that I have not found ANY answers for. Like others, I suddenly found myself having a problem with Suitcase telling me that I had font conflicts that needed to be resolved. As per instructions given by Extensis (which you can read here if you are not familiar with this problem),

http://www.extensis.com/en/support/kb_article.jsp?articleNumber=2002221

I cleaned up my system fonts as they recommended, with partial results. Then I came across another workaround here on the Apple forums which rather simply involved turning off the Preview Pane in Suitcase. This simple fix actually did the trick. HOWEVER...

Now, as per the instructions given by Extensis about creating a folder called 'Moved From System Font Folders' and 'cleaning' (placing) all 'unnessecary fonts' into four folders inside this main folder, I have done so. The resulting problem is that I now cannot open two of the four folders contained in the primary 'Moved From System Font Folders' that they suggest creating without causing my window from abruptly closing! The two Font folders that automatically close my hard drive window when attempting to open them are called 'System Domain Fonts' and 'Library Fonts'. The other two Font folders, 'Classic Fonts' and 'User Fonts' are okay. Nothing crashes, but the window repeatedly closes out when trying to view the contents of those two folders. Now, Extensis gives specifics about which fonts absolutely must remain to insure smooth running of the operating system(follow the link above), but I am now suspicious of this whole scenerio, and right now am wishing that I had not moved anything, especially in light of the workaround I later found here on our forum regarding turning off the Preview Pane in Suitcase which seems to have worked.

Fonts are confusing enough at the best of times, and now I feel considerably more lost than usual. Any help would be appreciated. Have I messed my beloved Mac up, or is this a non- issue and not to be worried about again? Were those fonts that I moved really as dispensible as Extensis state? In a nutshell, was the advice given by Extensis to move those fonts good advice and harmless and/or helpful? Can I put things back the way they were if need be? It seems pretty difficult since I cannot even scroll through those two Font folders without having the window close on me. Help please, if at the very least to put my mind at ease that my computer is okay with the way things are now and that the amazing automatically closing hard drive window is nothing to worry about. Thank you for your time in this matter.

1.25 Duel G4, Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Posted on Apr 1, 2006 11:58 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Jrsy Man

Level 4

1,890 points

Apr 2, 2006 9:07 AM in response to Morpheus Blak

Hi Morpheus,

I'm not sure if this will help but have you tried logging in with another user account or through safe-mode to see if you can open the folders from there? If that works then I'd suggest moving the pre-installed Mac fonts back to where they were and then uninstall Suitcase. From there you can try re-installing it, however others in the forums have reported issues with it so you may want to try an alternative, like FontExplorerX. Also, here's an excellent FAQ by forum member Kurt Lang on Font Management. Good luck.

Jrsy

Reply

Answer 2

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,502 points

Apr 2, 2006 10:16 AM in response to Jrsy Man

Along with Jrsy Man's advice, consider these options.

1) Never let Suitcase handle your System fonts. The idea behind it is if you were to activate a PostScript version of Helvetica, it would turn off the .dfont version supplied by OS X in the /System/Library/Fonts/ folder. In theory it's a good idea. In reality, most people have nothing but grief with that option on.

2) Move up to Suitcase Fusion. Suitcase X1 was much more stable than 10. Fusion is again far more stable than X1, plus adds some very nice features of its own, and those pulled from Font Reserve. Plus you get a free copy of Font Doctor with it. Note though that Suitcase Fusion no longer activates font for Classic. That support has been dropped.

Personally, I run my system exactly as described in the font management article Jrsy Man linked to. Fonts become a non issue when you a) keep your fonts to a minimum and b) avoid font conflicts like the plague. Suitcase is, of course, not the only font manager out there, but the OS X supplied Font Book is leagues behind the third party options. And on that note, if you have Font Book on your system, get rid of it. Even if you're not actually using it, it's still active and can make controlling your fonts very difficult.

To clean things up, I would recommend:

1) As Jrsy Man said, remove Suitcase and all of its preference files. You need to get it's control of your fonts out of the way. Then remove Font Book.

2) Follow the info at the bottom of my font management article to restore all of your fonts from the OS X Install CD/DVD.

3) Run a Repair Permissions in Disk Utility to straighten those out.

4) Then reinstall Suitcase making sure to not let it control your system fonts. Best though to move up to at least Suitcase X1. That version was completely rewritten version as a native OS X app. Version 10 is just updated OS 9 code. But if you have no need for Classic apps, upgrade to Fusion. It is vastly superior to X1.

Reply

Answer 3

Jrsy Man

Level 4

1,890 points

Apr 2, 2006 10:41 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Thanks for the follow up Kurt. Informative as always.

Jrsy

Reply

Answer 4

Apr 2, 2006 1:19 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

Thank you jrsy and Kurt for your responses. Here are my latest updates since I have reviewed your posts.

1/ You mention about uninstalling Suitcase. I know in the PC world you can actually choose to Uninstall a program. How does one effectivley uninstall a program on our beloved Macs? You know, to get all the little bits and pieces that are deposited everywhere when installing. If I am going to remove Suitcase, how do I get it out?
2/ FYI, I still use Classic on a regular basis(PageMaker). After reading your replies, it seems that I then need to stay in certain areas regarding font management apps as a user of OS9 and OSX
3/ I was able through jrsy's suggestion to do a Safe Boot and get into the aforementioned troublesome folders, and successfully put the dfonts Apple Gothic, Courier and Helvetica back into the /System/Library/Fonts. This seems to immediately have taken care of the problem of the Finder window closing when trying to look at the contents of those folders.
4/ In Kurt's reply regarding the SECOND point #2 at the bottom; if I have successfully moved those three dfonts back into place, do I still need to reinstall the fonts from the Tiger install DVD since it seems that all essential fonts are where they ought to be?
5/ In Kurt's article, there is a section regarding fonts installed for Microsoft apps. I do not use Microsoft apps at all, and as per the Extensis support article removed all those fonts as follows(pasted from that article);

To manually clean up your system fonts:

For Local Domain Fonts, create a folder called Library Fonts within the Moved from System Font Folders folder.

Move all fonts that you find in /Library/Fonts to your new Library Fonts folder.

I moved ALL fonts as they said, and that folder is now empty. Kurt states however that Arial, Arial Black, Comic Sans MS, Tahoma, Trebuchet MS, Verdana and Webdings ought possibly to be in there. Should I replace them or not in light of the fact that I do not use Microsoft apps?

Once I am clear on the above five points I will continue on the path of trying to straighten this mess up. Please bear with me and continue to walk me through this, as the help is greatly appreciated.

Reply

Answer 5

Apr 2, 2006 1:53 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

Another step taken;

Kurt, as per your font management article, I trashed the Suitcase Prefs located in the Users/myname/Library/Preferences folder, then did a Restart. When I restarted and opened Extensis all fonts were removed. In View I selected Show All Fonts, and here is what is now in there;

OSX AppleGothic.dfont
OS9 Charcoal
OS9 Chicago
OSX Courier.dfont
OS9 Geneva
OSX Geneva.dfont
OSX Helvetica.dfont
OSX keyboard.dfont
OSX LastResort.dfont
OSX LucidaGrande.dfont
OS9 Monaco
OSX Monaco.dfont

Does this look right? In your first post to me you state 'Never let Suitcase handle your System fonts.' It looks like it is doing that now. If it is, how do I rectify it? Also, you mention about jumping up to Suitcase X1(I am a regular user of Classic so that would be my option as far as an Extensis app goes), is this any better or worse than FontExplorerX in your opinion? I just want to use the best thing.

Morpheus

Reply

Answer 6

Apr 2, 2006 2:04 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

Also did Kurt's suggestion of repairing permissions. These are from the log pertaining to the fonts;

User differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/AppleGothic.dfont, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/AppleGothic.dfont, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/AppleGothic.dfont
Permissions corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/AppleGothic.dfont
User differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/Courier.dfont, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/Courier.dfont, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/Courier.dfont
Permissions corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/Courier.dfont
User differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/Helvetica.dfont, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./System/Library/Fonts/Helvetica.dfont, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/Helvetica.dfont
Permissions corrected on ./System/Library/Fonts/Helvetica.dfont

Reply

Answer 7

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,502 points

Apr 2, 2006 4:39 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

Great info, Morpheus,

I know in the PC world you can actually choose to Uninstall a program. How does one effectivley uninstall a program on our beloved Macs? You know, to get all the little bits and pieces that are deposited everywhere when installing. If I am going to remove Suitcase, how do I get it out?

Some programs have an uninstall option if you run the installer. Others you have to get rid of yourself. I can't remember if Suitcase has an uninstall option. But if not, it's pretty easy to remove. First, quit Suitcase. It will complain, saying if effect, "You don't really want to do that." Ignore it's warning and quit the application. Then press Command+F and type Suitcase into the search bar. Highlight all files that come up with Suitcase in the name and press Command+Delete to move them to the trash. That'll do it.

I still use Classic on a regular basis (PageMaker). After reading your replies, it seems that I then need to stay in certain areas regarding font management apps as a user of OS9 and OSX

Since you use PageMaker, you're going to want font control in Classic. Suitcase X1 will work for you, as will Font Agent Pro and I believe the free FontExplorer X from LinoType. Not that you couldn't do it with Suitcase Fusion. But since that won't activate fonts for Classic you'd have to resort to manually moving fonts in and out of the OS 9 /System Folder/Fonts/ folder. Ick!

I was able through jrsy's suggestion to do a Safe Boot and get into the aforementioned troublesome folders, and successfully put the dfonts Apple Gothic, Courier and Helvetica back into the /System/Library/Fonts. This seems to immediately have taken care of the problem of the Finder window closing when trying to look at the contents of those folders.

Yup. As mentioned in my article, Apple Gothic is almost as important to Tiger as Lucida Grande. It wasn't a big deal not to have that font in Panther, but Tiger is pretty fussy about its absence.

I have successfully moved those three dfonts back into place, do I still need to reinstall the fonts from the Tiger install DVD since it seems that all essential fonts are where they ought to be?

If you don't need, or want all of those fonts back on the hard drive, you don't need to restore them all. If you did, those fonts would simply be overwritten with fresh copies, plus adding those back that had been removed.

I do not use Microsoft apps at all, and as per the Extensis support article removed all those fonts

None of those are needed if you don't use any of the Office apps. Their main use beyond that is just that so many web pages are built to use those fonts and simply display better if you have them. Microsoft used to make that set available as a free download known as "web fonts". Unfortunately, they've discontinued that service.

Kurt states however that Arial, Arial Black, Comic Sans MS, Tahoma, Trebuchet MS, Verdana and Webdings ought possibly to be in there. Should I replace them or not in light of the fact that I do not use Microsoft apps?

Nope. Nothing to replace them with. As mentioned previously, just nice to have if you have them.

When I restarted and opened Extensis all fonts were removed. In View I selected Show All Fonts, and here is what is now in there; (followed by list)

That's correct. Whenever you manually remove fonts from a Fonts folder, Suitcase stubbornly hangs onto the listing of them even though they are no longer there. Deleting its preferences is the only way to reset it. What you have left are the ones in the OS X /System/Library/Fonts/ folder and the four (without the .dfont extension) basic fonts required by OS 9.

Does this look right? In your first post to me you state 'Never let Suitcase handle your System fonts.' It looks like it is doing that now.

Not really. As long as you told it not to manage system fonts after the reinstall, then it's not controlling them. It's only listing active fonts.

The permissions repair did the right thing. All fonts in the OS X /System/Library/Fonts/ folder are now properly owned by the system (0), instead of you (501).

Reply

Answer 8

Apr 2, 2006 4:58 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Okay, a couple of things;

1/ I do not have a copy of Suitcase X1, is there ANY point in me uninstalling and reinstalling 10.2.2 that I have now? From what you say, at the time of Install, I will be asked if I want Suitcase to control my System Fonts, to which I ought to choose No. If that is the case then perhaps it makes sense for the time being to do a reinstall of the version that I have, I cannot even find X1 on the Extensis site to download. They seem to only be offering Fusion.

2/ Regarding your reply;
None of those are needed if you don't use any of the Office apps. Their main use beyond that is just that so many web pages are built to use those fonts and simply display better if you have them. Microsoft used to make that set available as a free download known as "web fonts". Unfortunately, they've discontinued that service.

If I notice any funky stuff when surfing I will replace them, which is easy.

3/ Regarding your reply;
Not really. As long as you told it not to manage system fonts after the reinstall, then it's not controlling them. It's only listing active fonts.

As stated above, I did not reinstall 10.2.2, not until I access from my emails from you if it is worth doing it based on the fact that I can't find X1 anywhere on the web(tried a Limewire search also)... or do I give FontExplorerX a go?

Awaiting your reply...

Morpheus

Reply

Answer 9

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,502 points

Apr 3, 2006 6:09 AM in response to Morpheus Blak

I do not have a copy of Suitcase X1, is there ANY point in me uninstalling and reinstalling 10.2.2 that I have now?

Compared to using Font Book. Yes. (Can you tell I'm not a big fan of Font Book? 😉

From what you say, at the time of Install, I will be asked if I want Suitcase to control my System Fonts, to which I ought to choose No.

Correct. The only thing then is it's up to you to prevent font conflicts from opening a font that already exists as a system font by the same name. Such as Helvetica and Courier. But it's still preferable (in my opinion) than letting Suitcase move things all over the place as it did to you before.

I cannot even find X1 on the Extensis site to download. They seem to only be offering Fusion.

Not only Extensis, I could only find one place selling the full cost retail version of X1. It seems to have disappeared very quickly.

if it is worth doing it based on the fact that I can't find X1 anywhere...tried a Limewire search also

Don't do that, please. Anything found via Limewire is an illegally posted copy of commercial software.

or do I give FontExplorerX a go?

Wouldn't hurt. Especially since it's free. I tried it during the beta stage to see how well it worked. Had a couple of very ugly bugs at the time. But it is now an official 1.0 release. If you're at all familiar with Font Agent Pro, it works pretty much the same way as far as how it handles the fonts themselves. You can get it here.

Reply

Answer 10

Apr 3, 2006 10:40 AM in response to Morpheus Blak

Hi Kurt,

In response to you responses!

1/ Correct. The only thing then is it's up to you to prevent font conflicts from opening a font that already exists as a system font by the same name. Such as Helvetica and Courier. But it's still preferable (in my opinion) than letting Suitcase move things all over the place as it did to you before.

How is that accomplished? If it is detailed in your font management article, please pinpoint the section that I need to study.

2/ Don't do that, please. Anything found via Limewire is an illegally posted copy of commercial software.

Understood...

Reply

Answer 11

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,502 points

Apr 3, 2006 11:08 AM in response to Morpheus Blak

How is that accomplished? If it is detailed in your font management article, please pinpoint the section that I need to study.

That's section 3. I'm a prepress professional. Helvetica in particular gets used a lot in flyers, brochures, packaging, you name it. For those in this business, PostScript is king. Most RIPs for film and plates still don't care much for TrueType fonts. I don't think any recognize .dfonts. So for myself and others in this field, the .dfont versions of commonly used fonts have to go. So the .dfont versions of Helvetica and Courier were given the boot from my Mac. I then permanently activated Type 1 PostScript versions by placing them in the /Library/Fonts/ folder.

Note the last line in that section. If you have no need to use the PostScript versions of same named fonts, you don't need to replace them. The .dfonts will work just fine for most folks.

Understood...

Software developers everywhere will thank you. 🙂 It's too bad software is copied illegally so readily. It would all cost less than half of what is does if everyone bought what they use. It's amazing to me that those who think nothing of preventing someone for getting paid for their 40 hour work week. They would be the same ones to go nova if their boss said they didn't need their paycheck.

Reply

Answer 12

Apr 3, 2006 4:52 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

Hi Kurt,

Okay, one last thing (for the time being). I am going to reinstall my 10.2.2 for the time being. When I start the installation, at what point will I see the option not to allow Suitcase to control my system fonts? Am I choosing Easy Install or Custom Install? If I choose Custom Install, I am installing Suitcase MenuFonts, or is that the culprit you are talking about??

Thank you for the ongoing help...

Morpheus

Reply

Answer 13

Kurt Lang

Level 9

68,502 points

Apr 3, 2006 7:14 PM in response to Morpheus Blak

As long as you have first removed all previous traces of Suitcase, you should see the question about whether or not to let Suitcase control your system fonts either when the install finishes, or when you first launch it. I don't remember which. But I think it's the afore mentioned.

I normally use the custom install so I can tell it which, if any of the auto activation plugins I want to use. Heck, I don't even remember if those existed in version 10. Definitely don't install MenuFonts. First, that's an extension for OS 9. Second, it's incredibly buggy.

Reply

Answer 14

Apr 3, 2006 10:38 PM in response to Kurt Lang

You Rock! Really! Thank you. I will proceed and hopefully I am coming to the end of my queries from you. This just rienforces the great people we have in the world of Apples!

Morpheus

Reply

Answer 15

Apr 4, 2006 12:55 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt,

Reinstalled Suitcase tonight. Did not ask me at any time during or after about controlling System Fonts. More questions;

1/ In Suitcase Prefs a few radio buttons;

When a font conflict occurs;
• Activate the requested font
• Keep the currant font active
• Ask me what to do

• Allow Suitcase to override system fonts

(Morpheus note- Based on your very first response to this thread '1) Never let Suitcase handle your System fonts. The idea behind it is if you were to activate a PostScript version of Helvetica, it would turn off the .dfont version supplied by OS X in the /System/Library/Fonts/ folder. In theory it's a good idea. In reality, most people have nothing but grief with that option on.', I expect you will tell me not to enable 'Allow Suitcase to override system fonts'. So, if I want Helvetica to show up as an available fonts in my apps, then I have to add it to Suitcase, correct? If you recall, I removed all non-essential fonts to separate folders inside a main folder for fonts moved out of the System, Helvetica and Courier are two of those fonts that now sit in a folder of Classic fonts. If I add Helvetica through Suitcase(as an example of a font that has a .dfont doppleganger) and do not activate the aforementioned radio button, then does this mean that my System knows which Helvetica(the .dfont) to use for its' needs, and that Suitcase knows which Helvetica(the postscript version) I need for creating documents. Am I getting this at all? I really hope so...

2/ In my freshly installed Suitcase when I choose System Fonts(All) it shows me the essential fonts that we have successfully determined that absolutley need to be there.

OSX AppleGothic.dfont
OS9 Charcoal
OS9 Chicago
OSX Courier.dfont
OS9 Geneva
OSX Geneva.dfont
OSX Helvetica.dfont
OSX keyboard.dfont
OSX LastResort.dfont
OSX LucidaGrande.dfont
OS9 Monaco
OSX Monaco.dfont

The rest I need to add and then create sets. You also wrote to me 'Not really. As long as you told it not to manage system fonts after the reinstall, then it's not controlling them. It's only listing active fonts.' So. when I select the System Fonts(All) view, is Suitcase controlling them, or just showing them to me? Again, after all this I THINK that I am starting to get a handle on the broad concepts, and my guess is that you will answer that it is just showing them to me. I hope I am right...

Reply