Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 9:28 AM (in response to jnkadoodles)
It works until it heats up again...
Also I don't suggest you to continuously do that... That could be damaging to some parts.
I did that once as a test and it worked indeed. I did switch it off before putting it in.
Only 5 minutes of freezer, and wifi lasted for some 15 minutes.
Please apple just push a freakin update!
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 11:06 AM (in response to varjak paw)
This reasoning is extremly naive, extremely.
If The software had no relations with the hardware then how come your device even switches on?
I also am a developer and i just know how easily the software could cause that. The programmer typing in a wrong number constant in it's code would just be one of infinite possibilities.(The most easy example)
This problem IS software.
Thats why we have that problem simultaneously in 3 users of mine (i am IT manager) all of them right after IOS6 update.
Also thats Why simultaneously users around The world that have updated to iOS 6 have that.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 11:42 AM (in response to Hidekiyamamoto)
Explain to me, since you're a developer, how in absence of any defect or failure of the hardware that chilling any electronic circuitry in a freezer affects how software performs and thereby would cause the device to then work correctly.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 1:09 PM (in response to varjak paw)
My god this is disappointing.. I mean to see that you are somehow a "master" in the apple community.
Nevertheless I'll always answer.
First of all i already DID answer in the previous message, yes the one referred to as "The most easy example" is infact an answer to your question.
But seems like you don't get that most easy example, so I''m gonna have to detail it.
FIRST OF ALL I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT THINK that this is the case with the iphone, it's just a viable explanation.
Again, take this as the most simplicistic hypotesis that is enough indeed to demonstrate how the problem could theoretically be caused by software. (AS INFACT IS, I believe)
Let's say people is just going to the wifi settings panel and find this "grayed out" situation.
That can happen only in one condition : if somehow the operating system has foreseen this situation.
Most os nowadays are built in such a way that you can connect hardware to it, the iOS is obviously the same in its origin.
An example of that situation could occur if the wifi chip was infact broken, and lukily not preventing other things to work.
But there are other software possibilities: for example it may have happen to you to leave the iphone chargin in a car in a sunny day? When it's hot enough to be dangerous the iphone will stop charging, saying "the charger is not supported", that is whateer charger you use, even if you use the original one.
That is because the battery has the equivalent of a temperature sensor and there is a system to prevent it from exploding.
Now to follow on with an extremely simplicistic possibility let's say I wanted to prevent the iphone from heating up more if a certain temerature is obtained, because i want to prevent the infamous screen demages that occurs with iphones with cpu stuck in looops or hot situations.
That would be GOOD, infact i think they did it.
Like all modern hiqh quality electronics, iphone could be done in such a way that reaching high temperatures it would do anything possible to prevent damage, including a last resort switch off.
Let's just imagine that this feature is buggy for example let's imagine we have ONE SINGLE thermal sensor.(a nicer, more realistic example could be writtinen with more sensors, but let's stick to simplicity)
Now let's imagine the system calculates if the temperature is increasing or decreasing and how much, by mean of interpolation with the previous value, so it is stored Also some calculation is done to render a final "number" on wich decide to take some action.
Now le't s imagine a bug that once reached the critical temperature at wich to do some actions (example : disable the wifi), i mean, after the first time this code is executed on your phone, it would alter the privileges on the file that store the previous value, yes that would cause the other routine to loose the ability to overwrite the file... and we are pretty much done.. even if the current temperature is ok, and there is NO HARDWARE PROBLEM, the software sees a much higher "final number after intropolations and calculations" because the previous read of the sensor is alwasy very high just because it cannot be overwritten.
Another example of why that should be done could have been early 3g/3gs problem : cpu for some reason enters in loop, when certain temperature is achieved the screen brakes down.. they didn't put the thermal shutdown back then... and that was quite infamous.
And infact people reports that back to 5.1.1 the problem is solved :-)
There are so many real life examples... just search for "firmware fan error temperature incorrect cpu"
some of those problem ws caused by badly compiled firmwares.
Is this enough for you to see?
Software controls hardware, isn't it?
And software can simply be fallacious.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 1:23 PM (in response to varjak paw)
Or the most easy explanation of all:
I could just have left a piece of code in the software I make that checks if you are called "or whatever.
If so,AND if the temperature rises above 10Celsius, just go on and disable the wifi.
Of course only from the day after you cannot get a change for free at apple store!
Got that? the developer could write whatever he likes in the software.
*The worst hipotesis would be if that check was real and made to single out people that would most probably buy an iphone 5 if they entered an app store, once the fake wifi defact was shown up maybe going there a for a change or with the phone out of service, crossreferencing data with the appstore, that could be done.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 1:26 PM (in response to Hidekiyamamoto)
I see your example of the code controlling a thermal sensor being faulty and being unable to correctly react to an otherwise correctly-functioning temperature sensor and, in certain cases, lowering the temperature of the sensor could break the loop or fault and thereby returning the sensor routine to correct operation.
I do not, however, see how this would affect WiFi, since in my reading of the iPhone developer documentation, I fail to find a link between the thermal shutdown routines and the WiFi circuitry directly. Hence I see little chance that a fault in WiFi that can be cured, even briefly, by freezing the device is likely to a solely software issue. I can't say that it's impossible, particularly since Apple does not that I can find have complete documentation on the thermal sensor and protection system, but I think it unlikely. We may never know, however, and the next update may just fix the reported WiFi issues without us ever knowing the exact nature of the cause and fix.
And I don't see that you need to be a jerk about this, so let's just keep the discussion civil and avoid casting aspersions, OK?
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 1:41 PM (in response to varjak paw)
I am sorry.. you did write "almost ceratinly".
Anyways it was naive also because it didn't take in consideration that it's happening simultaneously to just too many users , right after switching to ios6, to be hardware. I alone have 3 users in my usersbase with this problem (I manage some 150+ users). If it's hardware, it must be caused by software before.
I don't think naive is bad word, I have found myself naive in many situations, especially given that i don't know anything about you, it's really just a statement about your reply.
A true statement because
1: didn't take all the data in account
2: well now it seems you also got that theoretically could be the software.
I was also triggered in such a mood because you know.. you always see people that just writes the most being "masters" of forums when most frequently the accuracy of the answers....
I am sorry but one could understand how that would renderd human beings sad to say the least.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 1:55 PM (in response to Hidekiyamamoto)
My reaction was not solely to your use of "naive" but rather to your statement of "disappointing" given that I am in some way a "master", a claim that I have never at any time made or even hinted at and also your statment of "seems like you don't get that most easy example" which I think most people would consider to be at least a mild insult. Perhaps this is a cultural or language difference, but a reaction such as yours to a simple query, but all of your statements taken in combination led me to take your post as a rather deliberate insult.
As to the WiFi issue, I by no means claim that it is not an issue. It clearly is. But the cause remains uncertain. It even seems that there is no single cause but rather may be multiple causes all causing similar, though not identical, symptoms. I do, however, disagree, as I did from the start, with your analysis that the problem is most definitely software when physically affecting the iPhone cures the problem. Again, I can find no indication that the thermal control system in the iPhone is sufficiently sophisticated as to shut down individual components of the iPhone in cases of thermal overload. Everything I can find to read indicates a simple system that shuts the entire iPhone down in cases of overheating. But again, lacking full details on the thermal protection system, I cannot say with certainty, nor have I done so in any of my posts here.
I think there's nothing more that can be said on the issue. None of us can with confidence prove or disprove your assertion lacking full documentation as to the thermal shutdown system or a statically significant number of iPhones with WiFi problems to test your freezing hypothesis, so I'm just going to leave this discussion at this point. We'll see what Apple does regarding the matter.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 2:07 PM (in response to varjak paw)
Yeah.. sorry about that.
I am sorry but it was true that you didn't get the most easy example : that was "a bad hardcoded value".
Still after explanations you accepted that the chance was there. So that is all the more true.
Don't get people that gets offended by truth.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 2:16 PM (in response to Hidekiyamamoto)
It was not true. I did get your "easy example". I just disagreed that it applied in this case which was a failure of WiFi only. I think perhaps it was you who took my statement as being one of general lack of understanding of how a software issue could cause what appeared to be a hardware failure. That was not the case. But again, I doubt it applies in the case of failures only of the WiFi functionality, though as I've said all along, it's not impossible.
And I'm not offended by the truth, but no "truth" has been provided, only guesses which to date are not borne out by any solid evidence. You continue to post veiled insults (that may be too strong a word, but I can't think of one more apt right now), though perhaps you don't mean them as such.
Enough said. Further debate over the issue serves no useful purpose as regards the original issue, and I have no interest in playing the "who is more expert" game. You are welcome to have the last word if you wish.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 2, 2012 2:41 PM (in response to varjak paw)
Also you say no proof is available.
That shows The opinion you have of other users that reports that iOS 5.1.1 recovery makes the go away.
Why users have to be considered that stupid, also I don't get.