Why can't Apple develop a stylus that functional for precision drawing.

Goosekeeper wrote:

Apple said that it wasn't going to make:

A video iPod

E-Readers (iBooks)

Cell phones

"We didn't think we'd do well in the cell phone business. What we've done instead is we've written what we think is some of the best software in the world to start syncing information between devices. We believe that mode is what cell phones need to get to."

-Steve Jobs

iPhones with larger screens

Tablets

"There are no plans to make a tablet…Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already."

-Steve Jobs

I'm talking about styluses, not this other stuff. The fact that you compare my argument to Apple's not making everything from coffee pots to jet fighters seems to suggest you need to focus a bit more on the actual topic of this thread. I know how easily distracted you artsy types get.

Here are the facts:

1. Apple does not now make a stylus for any of its devices.

2. Third parties are producing styli for the iPad now.

3. If you want a stylus now, purchase one from one of those third parties.

Have you tried the Wacom Bamboo stylus? I've heard it's pretty nice. And it comes in artsy colors.

@Tgara

You don't seem to see the connection. I'll explain it a little. Hopefully it won't come to me needing to draw you an artsy diagram.

There are a list of things Apple has said it wouldn't make. Some of them it hasn't yet. Some of them it has. Clearly, in some of the cases where it apparently went back on its earlier satements, it could be speculated that its statements were disinformation, smoke and mirrors. The iPhone had already been in development for years when the "no phone" statement was made.

Apple said it would not make a tablet. At that time it never had. That's where the stylus currently is. The Newton is a prime example given for not making a stylus. The Newton could have been an equally solid reason for not making a tablet. In fact, an old commercial for the Newton is nearly identical to a commercial for the iPad 2(?). The general concept was ahead of its time then and hence failed. But now, the technology has caught up to the original vision and clearly was worth reviving.

1. True. But they do sell styluses for the iPad in their stores. If the company's view of the stylus was so rock solid against a stylus, why would they stock one at all? It indicates to me that a) they see the demand for one and b) see that it is more useful than the finger for some things. They've also taken out a number of patents for stylus concepts over the years.

2. Many of them. And they do so because there is a huge demand. I'm sure Apple is doing the math.

3. I've purchased dozens in search of a winner. All of them are work-arounds. That brings us to this discussion.

4. I have one. It's okay. Mine is black. I'd recommend a nice lime-green one for you. I'm sure it would go with one of your hats or Smart Covers.

This all comes down to Apple's choice to go with a capacative screen. This needs a large surface area to register an electrostatic charge i.e. a finger or a fat stylus. That is the basic problem.

The other choice was a resistive screen - which is more like an LCD screen with that plasticy finish not glass. This allows you to press with a more precise point. I remember having one of these a dozen years ago on my palmpilot (remember those). I think the Apple Newton was this technology too. It was much more precise than the capacative and also could detect varying levels of pressure - very valuable in a drawing app.

The capacitive screens have much higher viewing quality and glass vs the plasticy feel of the pressure-sensitive screen which has lower contrast and is prone to scratching.

So I guess I understand why Apple made that choice, but to me its the one area that lets the iPad down, particularly in relation to handwriting, drawing or design applications. But as this area is exploding, I am sure technology advances to improve this won't be far away.

In the meantime, you could try this: http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/01/pogo-connect-pressure-sensitive-ipad-stylus. The Pogo Connect use bluetooth to emulate a more precise, pressure-sensitive experience. I can't vouch for it but it may be worth a try.

Goosekeeper wrote:

@Tgara

You don't seem to see the connection. I'll explain it a little. Hopefully it won't come to me needing to draw you an artsy diagram.

There are a list of things Apple has said it wouldn't make. Some of them it hasn't yet. Some of them it has. Clearly, in some of the cases where it apparently went back on its earlier satements, it could be speculated that its statements were disinformation, smoke and mirrors. The iPhone had already been in development for years when the "no phone" statement was made.

Apple said it would not make a tablet. At that time it never had. That's where the stylus currently is. The Newton is a prime example given for not making a stylus. The Newton could have been an equally solid reason for not making a tablet. In fact, an old commercial for the Newton is nearly identical to a commercial for the iPad 2(?). The general concept was ahead of its time then and hence failed. But now, the technology has caught up to the original vision and clearly was worth reviving.

1. True. But they do sell styluses for the iPad in their stores. If the company's view of the stylus was so rock solid against a stylus, why would they stock one at all? It indicates to me that a) they see the demand for one and b) see that it is more useful than the finger for some things. They've also taken out a number of patents for stylus concepts over the years.

2. Many of them. And they do so because there is a huge demand. I'm sure Apple is doing the math.

3. I've purchased dozens in search of a winner. All of them are work-arounds. That brings us to this discussion.

4. I have one. It's okay. Mine is black. I'd recommend a nice lime-green one for you. I'm sure it would go with one of your hats or Smart Covers.

I understand completely the connection you are trying to make. I think it's bogus, to be perfectly honest. I'm talking about a stylus, an accessory for a device. You are talking about the devices themselves, the main products sold by the company. There is a big difference on many, many levels. Let's be honest, the vast majority of people do not make the decision to buy an iPad because it does or does not have a stylus. They make the decision based on the capabilities of the device, the coolness factor, etc. A stylus is not a dealbreaker to the majority of customers.

I think the thing you are missing is the business perspective (as the artsy crowd usually does). Apple has made a business decision, rightly or wrongly, that they will not make their own stylus right now. Right now, they obviously think the technology isn't there, or that the styli they could make do not add to the iPad experience. Whatever the reason, that's what they've decided, that is a fact, that is reality, whether you choose to believe it or not. As many have said to you, if you have a different view, go ahead and send feedback to Apple and tell them how you feel. Who knows, they might listen to you.

Now, I will say that Apple is currently trying to patent a stylus:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml% 2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=18&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%2820120524.PD.+AND+Apple.AS .%29&OS=PD/20120524+AND+AN/Apple&RS=%28PD/20120524+AND+AN/Apple

So, you have reason to look on the bright side. You might get what you want in the future, but not today.

But be careful what you wish for.... you might get it. 😉

Hey Oz Boy,

I ordered the Pogo Connect a couple weeks ago. Looking forward to trying it out. Have friends who used prototypes a while back and they said it was great.

Here's my guess as to what I think (okay fine, hope) Apple will do. I don't think they're going to be as concerned about the Samsung Note tablets with the sPens so much as they will be with Microsoft's Surface. Looking at the direction MacOS has taken, from SL to Lion, it looks to me that both OSs are converging. I think iPads will pretty much stay the same. But, I see some sort of Apple equivalent of the Surface.

Could be the iSlate... glass screen, capacitive touch and some sort of digitizer (like Wacom Penabled) also built in. Would work will all touch, but would also work with a true digitizer.

I do little paintings from time to time on a Nintendo DS using a program called "Colors!" and it uses resistive pen input. Pretty awesome. I also have a Samsung Series 7 Slate. Glass screen, Wacom Penabled and touch—just like the Surface looks to be.

Here's another reason I believe this might happen-- the Modbook is back and is taking preorders for the Modbook Pro. It could easily be called the first and only (so far) Apple slate computer. Supposedly, Modbook Inc. we're in talks with Apple to work directly together on it but couldn't come to a deal. Apple still sells a MacBook Pro each time someone orders a Modbook, but them eventually making their own seems to be the way things are headed.

Apple developed their map app because they realized when their contract with Google expired they would need something to replace it.

I would imagine that Apple engineers use a high end Wacom tablet with their computers for technical drawing. Apple also has never made drawing tablets for any of their computers.

They did make a portable speaker/docking system for iPods (remember the Apple HiFi) but realized it was not their market and wisely backed out and discontinued the product. With so many companies making styli for iDevices there is no way Apple should enter the field.

Dude, I'm not completely delusional, not thinking they've already made a stylus, trying to convince you that one already exists. I know there's none now, I know what Steve said. Of course the vast majority don't. The vast majority don't have a particular use for one because they are on the dim side. Most people don't carry pens with them everywhere either. Bit there are a quality class of people, whom Apple has catered to for years, who do dream up stuff, carry notebooks & pens, make diagrams, paint, sketch, design, take notes... could be said that much of Apple's most loyal and longstanding base are a niche crowd, so you would mockingly say "artsy" (which kinda makes you sound a bit dense). And many of these people would be extra interested in an iPad type device which not only worked with touch, but could also work with a true digitizer of some kind.

The patent you linked is just one, more recent one of many they've taken out since the iPhone and iPad. Bet you anything they have been playing with prototypes for a while.

My guess is that the Surface will force them to rethink the stylus, if not for the iPad, for an iPad Pro or an iSlate or something similar to rival Surface.

I have styluses an use them with necessary but most of the time not. How does this make me on the "dim" side? People who use a stylus are smarter?

The iPad was designed for a particular market and as has already been pointed out Mr. Jobs wanted to avoid a stylus. There are indeed many that can work with the iPad and more probably to come.

No previous tablet that has used a stylus has surpassed the iPad, we'll have to see if the Surface is the one that topples it. If it does I doubt it is going to be because a huge mass of people just can't wait to go from their finger to a stylus.

Deggie,

If you look and see who that reply was to, you'll easily see that it wasn't to you.

This one is to you. Of the styluses currently made to work Witt he iPad are workarounds. None are true digitizers (as found on slate computers—Galaxy Notes, Wacom Penabled computers, Cintiqs, Modbooks... they are clever (some of them) quick fixes, attempts to fill what many users feel is a hole, or missing and desirable means of input.

I also think you're very wrong about people being excited about the Surface, in large part because of its stylus. It think it's a major selling point for Microsoft, has been with all if its previous tablet/slate machines.

I actually would be too surprised if Apple figured it could get away with selling 3 to 5 generations of its tablet before others could even begin to compete, then at some point knew they could pull aces from their sleeves.

I openly admit that I'm partially dreaming here, but feel I'm doing so on fairly solid ground.

By the way, Steve Jobs was a HUGE fan of calligraphy. Didn't actually "hate pens" as much as you may think he did.

"With so many companies making Styli for iDevices there is no way Apple should ever enter the field." <--- ********.

None of these styluses are true digitizers. None are truly smart, none are native to iOS. If they were to make one which was truly integrated into their OS, a "true iPad pen"—ALL of these companies would be up a creek. Apple would instantly take that whole, booming and still growing market in one fell swoop. Don't you get that? Do you see the difference?

Tgara wrote:

I think the thing you are missing is the business perspective (as the artsy crowd usually does).

The demographic you keep referring to as "artsy crowd" is:

1. Typically lightyears above your average businessman in terms of education & intellect

2. Is nowhere near confined to artists alone, but consists of various other, non-business-type professionals

3. Don't know which nook of the woods you live, but hereabouts art was still a serious business last time i looked.

That "artsy crowd" (if you please) was the crowd which elevated Apple to the status where it is now. Simply because that crowd recognised quality stuff when they saw one.

Microsoft/Windows still haven't shed the metaphorical image of the shifty, awkward biznitzman in his ill-cut suit & polyester tie, grasping for quick bucks.

Apple's perceived "cool-factor" was created (and is perpetuated) by the business-crowd's parvenu, clueless offspring. The "artsy crowd" (if you insist) doesn't give a toss about cool-factor.

Tgara wrote: I'm talking about a stylus, an accessory for a device.

Is a pencil accessory for the paper? Nope.

I realized you weren't replying to me. I was just commenting on your post.

While Mr. Jobs was a fan of calligraphy, he wasn't a fan of it on an iDevice. He abhored having to carry a stylus and said so frequently. Creating the iPad to be both an oleophobic capacitance screen that words with your finger AND including a digitizer screen that works with a stylus as you describe would require engineering and would be costly. Now that Mr. Jobs is gone perhaps the executives at Apple will decide it is worth doing but presently I doubt their marketing would show their is any advantage to them in doing so. I also have yet to talk to anyone who is looking forward to the Surface because of the use of a stylus. And if the various tablets that use digitizers, like the Note, were outselling the iPad then Apple might pay attention. Thus far this is not happening.

Apple does an enormous amount of marketing research but they are not a slave to it. Currently people wanting a precise digitizer stylus on the iPad are decidedly a niche market, just as people using Wacom digitizer tablets with Macs is a niche market. Apple chooses not to enter such markets and let others have that area. Which is why there are no Apple digitizer tablets for Macs.

While you may thing this is a "booming" market I doubt that Apple sees that and I see very few people using any stylus with their tablets. They have been pretty accurate in the past decade of assessing their markets.

Now on the other hand as screens and mobile processors improve perhaps they could work with a company like Wacom to develop what you want.

Bra-fuggin-vo!

I'm sorry, but I know very well, first-hand that an iPad with a stylus would have a whole new level of potential, in a sense it could be viewed as almost an entirely new device for probably a few industries of working creatives. It would be THAT much harder to call it a "consumption-only-device". Folks who didn't want to use one, didn't have a need or use for one could simply just go on using their fingers like nothing ever happened. Don't want it don't buy it. But "artsy" fartsy folks like me who use such a barbaric tool such as a stylus to make a living would love to be able to call their iPad a serious business tool—for their business too.

I wasn't sure exactly what he was saying and who he was agreeing or disagreeing with.

So send in your feedback: http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipad.html

But for now your only recourse is to look at the Surface, or Note or some other tablet that uses a stylus. If you could convince Apple that development of such a device would get them 10,000,000 or so more sales they would probably consider it. If on the other hand you are looking at 10,000 more sales I seriously doubt they would consider it. Otherwise they would have gone into competition with Wacom in making drawing tablets for Macs.

And I do know creatives who use the iPad with the tools currently available. And do quite well at it.

If you knew I was replying to someone else, why did you tak personale offense to a jab I made at someone else? Whatever. No one is talking about—wanting—pitching—proposing—hinting at... "having to carry a stylus"... optional, man.

A niche market? Technically, Apple computer users are a niche market. Apple's base is a niche base. iPhone, iPod amd iPad are aimed at everyone, I'm just saying that they could and should and might be looking to toss a bone to some of their base.

You may call people using Wacoms "niche", I may call them "talented", either way, look at Wacom. Mega-fuggn-company. Think of how many would be Wacom customers would go iPad, if it had a precision pointing system.

"… engineering would be costly" Forreal? Competing companies have been doing this for years, it's not new technology. Samsung is pooping these things out, so is Asus. Apple is worth more than many of the world's countries, more than many of them combined. Engineering such a thing would be nothing for them cost-wise! The return would be far greater.

Take the artists and designers, architects, all of the everyday-doodlers, museum curators, graphic designers, cartoonists, comic book artists, doctors... all of these out of the equation. Just look at education. Edu is a big target market for the iPad. K-12 all the way up, Y'know, the brick buildns were the smartys git there schoolin'. That one market alone would be worth it. Add to that all of the other specific industries, and them to them all of the average people who wouldn't mind being able to scribble, jot, doodle, who don't fall into any real category and you've got a cake with a good amount of icing. Still niche, I'll say it before you do, but again, Apple is good friends with niche. They've been good pals for a long time.

You see very few people using styluses with their tablets? Really? Get outta Texas much, partner?

Heck, look at Asians alone. As far as a demographic goes, they're the biggest market on Earth. Yes, even bigger than Texas. They love writing! I see them using styluses constantly. It's cultural, you'll just have to trust me on it.

Why am I arguing with a dude from Texas essentially about digital art and writing...