Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next 112 Replies Latest reply: Dec 18, 2012 1:01 PM by este.el.paz Go to original post
  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    I much prefer AJ, but unless Onyx is the cause of the problem, I don't think it'll help determine the cause.

    BD:

     

    Many thanks for the reply.  Right, I get that AJ doesn't determine the cause, but the question would be whether or not it might get some potential software issue "treated" a bit better than Onyx?  I was looking at the AJ site or  an Apple kb and something was mentioned about how "crashes" can cause further problems . . . that might cause further crashes; possibly AJ might do some "deeper cleaning" that might break the cycle of crashes? 

     

    I'm trying to find a way to beat the $99.999 cost of Disk Warrior or TechTool Pro . . . but, would either of those be able to diagnose specific hardware problems that AHT does not?  I don't need to recover data, as there is a clone, just try to figure if this is the HD or what specific software side issue, etc.

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,040 points)

    the question would be whether or not it might get some potential software issue "treated" a bit better than Onyx?

    I believe so.

    would either of those be able to diagnose specific hardware problems that AHT does not?

    2.3175% chance on DW, <1.0% chance on TTP is my guess.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

     

    2.3175% chance on DW, <1.0% chance on TTP is my guess.

    BDAq:

     

    Hilarious . . . looking from my iPod I thought it might have been 2,3175% . . . not 2.3% . . . .  : - )))  So what you are saying is that DW has a greater than 100% chance of figuring it over TTP, or TTP has a 100% less chance . . . .  With those kind of percentages it seems like . . . a gamble . . . .  : - )))  Alrighty, anyway, we're passed the "acceptance" phase, but if I can keep the iMac running long enough to get AJ loaded I might give that a chance--might be a 2.3175% chance of getting that done.

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,040 points)

    might be a 2.3175% chance of getting that done.

    Now you're on board.

     

    I think TTP will only find or be useful for what AHT would be.

     

    Once in a great while, especially on older OSX versions, DW can correct things that Disk Utility says is no problem & never show up.

  • Neville Hillyer Level 4 Level 4 (1,855 points)

    It is rare not to have found the cause after this amount of effort which is why I am inclined to an unusual hardware fault. The most common is one RAM bit being intermittent which can be difficult to track down especially if it is temperature dependent. I still advise selectively removing RAM to eliminate this.

     

    You should also be aware that both crashes and forced quits can cause software damage - relatively rare but probability increases with the number of crashes or forced quits.

     

    I would do a full backup, erase disk, install OS and Apple software only without importing anything from previous OS. Test for a while to see if the problem still exists.

     

    If this works then refrain from the use of too many third party utilities and applications especially Onyx.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAq & Mr Neville:

     

    Well, we know there is a problem . . . but haven't had the time to totally chase it down, doesn't seem like any of it is too precise, i.e., a crash log that states, "Your HD is struggling to survive, please contact your local Apple repair store . . . " . . . that would be very helpful, but doesn''t seem to exist . . . .

     

    I would tend to agree that since the problem happened when I booted a fresh install of 10.4.6 from a FW HD connection that is is probably a Hardware problem . . . but, since this is the iMac and I've never had to crack the case on it, it's not the same as the tower models where it's easy to pop the side panel and click stuff in and out.  But, I appreciate the follow-up; I did see the data that crashes cause further problems in software that cause further crashes, so I will attempt to get AJ installed and run it . . . but, have a number of other daily life problems stacked up on my head such that flogging the iMac onward will have to wait a few days . . . .  It's interesting to see the implication that Onyx might be a source of some issues . . . a few years back MacWorld seemed to be touting it as helpful to getting the maintenance scripts run.  I don't leave my computers "awake" 24 hours a day, and until the last 1.5 years thru playing with Linux, I didn't do much command line work . . . .  Re-reading the applejack web site info shows it more or less does what Onyx does, or what? running "fsck" something, something in the Terminal would also do the same thing?  At one point recently I did try that on the iMac, but didn't add the -y/bin ?????  Anyway, sometime in the weekend I'll try the AJ option and if that doesn't get it, either end it or try to see if changing the HD or fiddling with the RAM brings the machine back to the land of the living . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    este.el.paz wrote:

     

    Anyway, sometime in the weekend I'll try the AJ option and if that doesn't get it, either end it or try to see if changing the HD or fiddling with the RAM brings the machine back to the land of the living . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

    Gents, et al:

     

    Well, there's been a "development" in the proceedings . . . was able to install AJ in the iMac along with the Memtest from the "customize" choice . . . and I started in "expert" and did "deep clean of cache" . . . and then after that there was a "segmentation fault" and I had to fiddle to get started on the Memtest . . . followed quickly by a CLI "kernel panic" . . . .  Being the scientist that I am, I decided to split my focus and unplug the ethernet while I was trying to unplug everything except keyboard/mouse . . . .

     

    I then rebooted and ran "applejack auto restart" . . . and there was some stuff about some "kext" files that got cleaned, a few other statements, but I'm away from the computer now . . . and then checking to see if it was the Memtest that caused the crash, I ran the full test for the 3x . . . and everything checked OK.  But, point being that it took at least 1.5 hours?? to do that, a feat which the olde iMac has not been able to do as of late!!!  So, was it running just the "auto" of AJ that did something, or was it unplugging the ethernet??  In the history of the machine in the last year + the Linux side has required that I "modprobe" the bcm card or something, otherwise the ethernet would not work, so it might have been that the ethernet card is "busted" . . . and somehow didn't show up in AHT??  Next step will be to run Safe boot and try to use the airport to connect and see if that works . . . I wasn't sure if I wanted to run the AUTO version of AJ just for good measure???

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,040 points)

    You may be onto something with the Ethernet.

     

    Airport drivers are disabled in many versions of OSX in Safe Mode.

     

    In OSX, Apple icon>About this Mac>Mre Info>Network, does the Ethernet card show up there?

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    You may be onto something with the Ethernet.

     

    Airport drivers are disabled in many versions of OSX in Safe Mode.

     

    In OSX, Apple icon>About this Mac>Mre Info>Network, does the Ethernet card show up there?

    BDA:

     

    Thanks again for being there, and for the question; I'm at work so it might be tomorrow before I get a chance to play with the iMac again . . . .  Thanks for the reminder on the airport disabled in Safe, I guess I would have to leave the safety of Safe mode to see if I can use the computer with the airport, or just see if it will run for a good while w/o using the ethernet . . . and then compare to what happens when I plug it in.  I just considered the plugged connection to be the most stable . . . and then, well, who are we if we aren't "connected" . . . better to have kernel panics than to be found . . . "un-connected" . . . .  I'll post back.  Any thoughts on whether running AUTO now or save it for later?

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,040 points)

    In my experience, it wouldn't hur to run AJ AUTO.

  • Neville Hillyer Level 4 Level 4 (1,855 points)

    I have tried various AppleJack commands but these days I most often use:

     

    applejack AUTO shutdown

     

    I prefer 'shutdown' as resuming from AppleJack is different to a normal boot.

     

    Could it be a wired ethernet (wireless also uses ethernet) driver problem - perhaps connected with duel boot?

     

    I use Ubuntu and Leopard but on different hardware.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    Gents:

     

    Tried to post earlier but the forum was closed . . . OK, for reasons not entirely understood I was able to run the iMac for a number of hours yesterday, trying to do things that would have made it panic before . . . now did not.  Again in the interest of science I just ran the "AJ AUTO" and I used Mr H's "shutdown" . . . but that was without too much testing of whether or not "AJ auto" was sufficient to fix the problem.  But I ran it w/o the ethernet for almost two hours, even re-booting into the Linux side and the only problem was that the wireless could not be made to work in either partition.  OSX provided the error "wrong or invalid password" but my laptop also running 10.4.11 had no problem connecting.  Thinking that plugging in the ethernet was going to crash the computer I then plugged it in . . . and ran it w/o launching a browser for an hour . . . then launched a browser . . . .  And there were no kernel panics!!!!!

     

    So, choosing caution over unbridled enthusiasm, there are still a few things to plug back in to see if it is "hardware" related--speakers, various USB items, and haven't checked to see if the FW plug for the external drive might be the culprit, since it was plugged in most of the time that the panics were happening.  And I might try bouncing over to Xu/Lu 12 and spending some more time over there to see if that starts the paroxysms of kernel panics again . . . .  It's been cooler here so the "heat" angle might be harder to test for a few months . . . .  But, it was just nice to be able to use the iMac longer than 15 mins., it seems like the most obvious statement seems that running AJ might be what fixed the problem??? if it is fixed.  What I don't understand about that is how running AJ in OSX also has affected the Linux side?  I have a post on the Ubuntu apple forum asking if there is an AJ-like application to run in Linux to fix issues . . . we'll see if we get a response there.

     

    Anyway, I'm going to play around with the iMac for a bit, and if it's still doing fine in a few days I'll mark the question as "solved" . . . thanks for all the thoughts and help from each of you, much appreciated . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,040 points)

    On the Airport PW...

     

    Instead of joining it from the list, click the WiFi icon at the top, and click join other network. Fill in everything as needed.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    On the Airport PW...

     

    Instead of joining it from the list, click the WiFi icon at the top, and click join other network. Fill in everything as needed.

    Thanks for that tip, I think I tried that, I spent several hours just trying all the different ways to join . . . it wasn't accepting the password clearly displayed on the side of the router, the one that worked for the iBook.  But, OK, that gives me something to try if the ethernet turns out to be the problem.  As of yesterday the wired connection is working and that has been how it is for the iMac . . . wired, although it is literally inches from the router the wireless was not connectable . . . same in Linux.  Right now I'm just looking for basic functioning w/o kernel panics . . . to get a little more mileage out of the iMac . . . then maybe start a hackintosh project next year for a desktop unit . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    Gents:

     

    Good news . . . things were going so well for the last few days I decided to try to experiment with the iMac a bit by plugging the FW connection to the ext HD back in again and then doing a cold reboot . . . just after logging in I again got the classic greyed screen with the chilling words . . . "You need to restart your unit" . . . .  Unplugged and tried the other FW port with same results . . . .  Then tried to run "AJ AUTO" but each time it got to the "repair permissions" phase there was a violent kernel panic that rocked the process . . . tried to run that 4 or 5 times, then remembered that previously I started with "AJ auto" . . . but the kernel was again violently "panic-ed" . . . .

     

    So, the paroxysms of KPs have returned, possibly having to do with the FW port, possibly not . . . since unplugging the FW cable did not stop the KPs . . . .  But, right now, we can't get through running AJ . . . it might just be there was a brief flash of trouble-free computing after running AJ, but in running the computer the last breath was spent . . . ?????  : - ))) 

     

    I'll try again until hopefully the full AJ process can be run . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

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