Looking at these posts about 17" machines being whine-free and free of heat problems, it almost seems stupid to buy a 15" now.
Let's see...$250 more gets me:
Pro:
+ A bigger 17" screen
+ Bigger hard drive (120GB)
+ Another USB port
+ A FW800 port (not really useful to me, but why not...)
+ Faster processor @ 2.16GHz
+ 8x dual-layer SuperDrive
+ No whine (has anyone reported problems with this yet?)
+ Less chance of a heat problem
+ Much better battery life (someone reported 4-5 hours with normal usage)
Con:
- A bigger 17" screen
- More weight
I'm torn between getting the product that will fit my needs just fine (the 15") or getting the bigger one that looks like a much better value, has fewer bugs, and seems way too HUGE for my needs. This seems like a sad state of affairs. I hope they fix the 15" models soon. I really don't want to wait til the fall, because once Merom ("Core 2 Duo") comes out, Windows XP won't work anymore 😟
Portability aside, what else is there? Most people aren't going to lug their 17"s around. I feel $1000 is a big price to pay just to show off your machine. You can get a 20" iMac AND a macbook for that price 🙂
Ultimately it is a matter of personal preference. If you have $1000 lying around to be spent, then by all means go for it! That, actually seems more silly to me. Just my opinion.
It's not huge. Just 2 inches more! It is not "less portable". And once you've gotten used to it you wouldn't have it any other way. When mobile, having a large screen is really an advantage - the weight and size really aren't a great challenge.
No, it's not stupid to buy the 15" MBP. I make long flights now and then and greatly prefer carrying and using the 15" form factor to a larger notebook. If anything, I would prefer a smaller form factor for trips. Unfortunately, all else being pretty even, the smaller the form factor, the more expensive to design and manufacture.
First, it's premature to assume that some 17" owners aren't going to be complaining about heat and whine. I've already seen some such posts.
Second, it's still premature to conclude that the 15" MBP really has heat problems. I've seen lots of complaints about heat, usually based on the preconception that if any part of the MBP feels warm that's a defect. Sure, the case bottom can get very warm while operating, especially if a battery is being charged. Sure, the metal strip behind the function keys can get very warm. Neither gets hot enough to cause a burn if momentarily touched. In fact, I can leave my fingers on the hottest part of my MBP indefinitely without fearing an actual burn (although sometimes it wouldn't be comfortable). When I was a young child I learned that it's not a good idea to leave my hand on a hot surface. I haven't forgotten, although the MBP never gets as hot as a stovetop burner. I have no sympathy for any idiot who would pick up a MBP and then drop it, because it's "too hot".
My keyboard (including the function keys) never gets hot, or even warm. The palm/wrist rests on my MBP never get uncomfortable, although the rest area to the left of the trackpad gets a little above room temperature. When on my desk the MPB sits on a tilted aluminum stand. I like the tilt and the stand probably helps keep the computer cooler. When I'm using the MBP in my lap, it's on that stand. When I travel, I flip the stand over, fit the MBP "in" it and slip the pair into my travel bag.
If the user does things that are warned against by Apple, such as placing the MBP on a pillow, bed, blanket or lap, the case bottom will get hot. That's physics. An airspace beneath the case bottom is part of the heat dissipation design. It's not a defect, although some posters claim it is. It's not just Apple. All manufacturers of notebook computers issue such warnings. And that's also why there are many vendors of "laptop tray" devices to allow operation of a notebook in one's lap (or on a bed, sofa or pillow). RTFM and use common sense, for Pete's sake.
There is no evidence at this time that the components of the MBP are not operating well within the range of temperatures that will allow their use for years without heat stress failure. That's certainly true of the two components that I can measure, SMART disk temperature and CPU temperature. I've got other computers that consistently run much higher SMART disk temperatures. I wish theirs were as cool as my MBP's hard disk. As to the CPU, Intel has noted operating temperature specs up to 100 degrees C. My CPU temps haven't approached that, and I'm sure Apple's energy management controls would shut down the computer before damaging heat levels could occur.
I can use the MBP for many hours every day without discomfort. (That includes occasional use as a laptop, but on a laptop tray.) It's fast, rock stable and certainly the best of many notebooks I've used.
Finally, I can't quantify the "whine" problem. My MBP doesn't whine, or if it does, no one can hear it. I know several people who also own MBPs. Their computers don't whine, either, so they report. Can electronic devices make noises? Yes, and within the range of manufacturing tolerances for some parts, some of them can be noisier than others. Whatever, my MBP is much quieter than my PowerMac, which is pretty quiet (unlike some previous PowerMac designs).
That's exactly what it is. But I hate the fact that the pricing is done so you are "forced" into this situation of having to decide between better portability and better value. Maybe this is just the price of a capitalist economy, but there's no harm in complaining a little, is there? 😉
It's like when you go to the movies, and the size difference between a medium and a large drink is HUGE and the cost is only 25 cents more for the large. You feel really dumb if you don't go for the bigger one, but you don't NEED the bigger one...
Basically, all I'm saying is that when I buy, it'll be the 15" or the 13.3" if the features are good enough...but there's still that feeling in the back of my head that I'm not getting the most for my money.
And yeah, this is nothing more than ranting and venting frustration. Maybe it doesn't belong here. But maybe someone else wants to vent too...may as well contain it to one thread! 🙂
The $250 was calculated based on the ADC Student discount. You pay $99 for the membership and get a one-time 20% discount on a system (I think the discount is less for a non-pro system).
Then add on the $99 membership fee to that, and it turns out to about $2450 for a 17" and $2200 for a 15" -- about a $250 difference.
As a side note, for students out there who haven't bought yet and are planning on it, this is certainly the way to go if you were planning on buying from the Apple online store anyway. It turns out to be about $100 cheaper than just using the regular student discount.
I'm not sure? Microsoft claims 32-bit stuff works on XP 64-bit. Is there a performance hit though? And will XP 64-bit work under Boot Camp, etc...? One thing's for sure...these aren't things I want to find out AFTER I buy a $2000+ laptop 😉
Well we are more or less on the same page -- you're saying the 15" is best because it suits your needs due to the form factor, weight, etc. And that's exactly my point. It's just too bad that spending just a little more gets you way more cool features but negates the nice small (ish) form factor.
It looks like you got a nice MBP though, without heat or whining. Just because yours is perfect, however, doesn't necessarily mean everyone else is over-exaggerating or flat-out lying. I think, from the posts here (including temperatures!), it can be concluded that a heat problem certainly exists, but like all these problems, it's hit-or-miss as to whether you receive a machine that's flawless or flawed.
I've personally played around with a friend's MBP and it was pretty warm above the F-keys, but the rest of the case seemed reasonable. Granted, it was on for all of like 10 minutes, and doing nothing 😉 The whine on his was extremely slight, and I had to put my ear pretty close to hear it. It reminded me of a flickering fluorescent light from Doom3 or Half-Life or something. Like a bzz-bzzt-bzzzzz--bzzt---bzzzzzzt sort of noise that doesn't sound like a constant hum or "whine." I'd consider it more of a buzz. I could see it getting a little annoying over time in a silent room, but it wasn't too bad. My girlfriend's PowerBook 1.33 makes the same noise from time to time. It is a little distracting but not too awful. Is this all the whine is, or do some people have a really bad one?
Configure the 15" with a 2.16Ghz and a 120GB 5400RPM drive and it is $2899, $100 more than a 17" with the same config. This is what I am ****** about, I paid more for a far lesser machine. I have no use for a 17", just don't charge me more for the convenience of a smaller machine with less functionality. The 17" is the flagship and it should be priced acordingly.
