2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

Now for some additional data:

I looked through the logs to see what had been going on. During the moments where my machine would freeze I saw this.

Jan 23 21:40:27 WindowServer[94]: Received display connect changed for display 0x4273380

Jan 23 21:40:27 WindowServer[94]: Found 60 modes for display 0x04273380 [51, 9]

Jan 23 21:40:35 kernel[0]: GPU Hang State = 0x00000000

Jan 23 21:40:35 kernel[0]: AMDTurksGraphicsAccelerator: ** Device in slot: SLOT--1 **

Jan 23 21:40:35 kernel[0]: ** GPU ASIC Log Start **

Followed by a list of numbers in the format of 0x00000000. And then this series of lines repeated several times (until a manual power down).

Jan 23 21:41:42 kernel[0]: GPU hang:

Jan 23 21:41:42 kernel[0]: Trying restart GPU ...

Jan 23 21:41:43 kernel[0]: GPU Hang State = 0x00000000

Also, concerning the booting issue I would see something like this

^@^@^@^@^@^@^

repeated hundreds of times at the moment when the Apple logo would disapper and I was left staring at a grey screen or even the bright blue one with vertical lines.

I searched for some of these log messages and turned up some threads on the 2011 iMac Radeon 6970M issue. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3194165?answerId=20394072022#20394072022

The iMac problem was recalled. http://support.apple.com/kb/TS5167

It looks like our problems are very similar. We need Apple to make this right so that we can all get back to work.

D3us wrote:

That was me I think, here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?answerId=24473343022#24473343022

Quote:

"For CPU I use prime 95, making sure it uses all cores. Even start 4-8 sessions for quad or octa core.

Mac version:

ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v277.MacOSX.zip

For gpu stress testing you could use this maybe:

http://unigine.com/products/heaven/

And yes, I run both, stressing out CPU AND GPU to the max together !!!

And use a program to read out temps when doing this.

The computers I build have no problem with this.

Can run them for 24, even 36 hours long, without any problem.

Laptops however, when getting smaller and smaller wil get more and more problems.

Buying a macbook, or other laptop, for video editing is not really a good choice.

But if they are sold as beeing suited for that job, it's manufacturer's/seller's responsability to make sure it can survive the task.."

Another one is http://www.geeks3d.com/20130712/gputest-0-5-0-cross-platform-opengl-benchmark-li nux-mesa-gallium3d-glibc-windows-macosx/

Don't think furmark is ported to mac osx, as that is a great one to.

Use that on pc together with prime 95.

Don't forget to run prime on all cores.

Like on quad cores, I start 4 sessions of it assigning every session to anoher core to make sure the cpu is really stressed out to the max.

D3us - Thanks for the great info! I just got my repaired 15" 2011 Macbook back (GPU replacement) and I'm currently running the Heaven and Prime 95 stress tests on it right now, thanks to you! Just having my Macbook boot and run without issue is happiness, but the stress tests will really let me know if the replacement was truly effective. I have a 30 day warranty on the replacement, so I plan to put it through the ringer before then... So far so good, but as we all know, only time will tell...

Will-NY wrote:

Thanks for sharing. Very much appreciated.

Questions:

1. What's the difference between a the GPU replacement/repair you had done and what Apple is doing (re: full logic board replacement)?

2. How does a GPU replacement fix the issue/defect while a logic board replacement (which includes a new GPU) does not??

3. Also, were the folks at NYClaptopRepair able to figure out, precisely/specifically, what caused your machine to fail (and if so, do they think this is what's causing all of our machines to fail as well)?

Will-NY, not connected to NYClaptopRepair, living and reparing them in Europe, will share my thoughts on it.

1 - and 2 - Wrote about that here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?answerId=24161788022#24161788022

Quote:

"It's not about the solder getting 150c to melt.

f it's not an intern GPU fault, it's prbabably bad soldering of the BGA.

Not all balls got fully liquidus or long enough TAL, not giving a 100% soldered connection.

It makes contact but is not really soldered, doesn't havea real intermetallic bond.

More "glued" instead of soldered.

It's the mechanical stress caused by heating/cooling cycles, making it expand and contract.

Breaking the "glued" connection, like the head-in-pillow photo posted."

If the logic board is replaced by apple it probably is a new board, probably from a reserved stock for repairs.

But as this most likely comes from the same production runs they probably replae a bod logic board with another bad one, having the same faults like described above.

When we repair them, beeing it a reflow, reball or chip replacement we try make sure to get a perfect solder connection, not "glued" ones, on all the balls/pads. This should prevent the same happening again.

Can only say that me and some people I know doing this too allways try to get the best result.

3 - Dunno for NYClaptopRepair, but unless they have (3D) rontgen equipment it will be hard to tell what the exact problem is. I still sitck with what I wrote above, but only way to find out for sure is with rontgen, maybe other special equipment, like microscopes looking under the bga, but ill be harder to get a full view of all balls.

Mostly it's experience.from reparing these things.

Seeing what a computer does or not do when starting it is often enough to tell what the problem is.

Or checking if some signals are available or not telling what component is defect.

akamyself wrote:

we are about to celebrate the 1st anniversary of abelliveau's post in a few days, that's sad, really sad.

It's even sadder that this is the "new" thread about 2011 MacBook Pro GPU issues... we're about to celebrate the third anniversary of this thread. Some of the early graphics issues reported may have been a bit different than the current failures, but you start seeing posts about very similar glitches and logic board replacements just months after the first early 2011 machines rolled out.

So while it does seem like we're seeing a lot of new affected users around the 18-24 month mark, it's definitely been a problem for some users for much longer. Stinks to be left in the cold for repairs on your 2-3 year old $2000 laptop... stinks even more to be stuck paying for these repairs when it's just days out of the 1-year base warranty, as some users were asked to. 😟

I have voiced my frustration with every division that I could reach from tech support to the executive line. I was given the same story you were. At this time there aren't enough documented cases to warrant a repair extension program. I wish there was a magic formula that we all could follow to get this escalated.

As far as the methods of contacting, I have been told by Apple that the only data that isn't collected are emails sent to Tim Cook. It might make you feel better and for me it did eventually get a phone call but that data just isn't considered useful for repair extension data. The rep I spoke with also mentioned that any time your serial number is taken it will be recorded as an issue that may go into the mix with everyone else that also calls in or has repairs for the same problem.

Let's face it guys they aren't going to make it easy for us. A repair extension is going to cost Apple money. Their job is to figure out ways around spending money. We need to investigate this precedent http://support.apple.com/kb/TS5167?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US . This program is almost exactly the same as ours. How did this receive attention? How long did it take from the first issue being reported? If anyone has any insight please let us all know.

I would recommend that you copy and paste some of the general guts of the email to Apple Feedback to cover ALL basis. http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Keep in mind there are 2 LARGE forums on Apple Disscussion that I know of, this one and this one: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2768351?answerId=24670534022#24670534022&ac_cid=tw123456#24670534?ac_cid=t w123456

<Edited By Host>

I own a 15" early 2011 MacBook Pro. Today I sent the following feedback to Apple, using the link provided above (http://www.apple.com/feedback/ ) :

I want to add my voice to the many others who have complained about the problems which hundreds, if not thousands, of loyal Mac users have had with their 2011 MacBook Pros because of bad design and/or bad manufacturing, resulting in: overheating, failure to adequately dissipate heat, failure of the GPU to perform properly, etc... ultimately leading to screen distortion and often a total shutdown of the computer. For more details I refer you to the user discussion at: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?start=2055&tstart=0

Apple's transparent attempts to avoid its' clear responsibility for this problem (including treating it as an Apple Care expiration issue, and not a design or manufacturing matter) have gone on long enough. Apple, with its very deep pockets, should be ashamed.

Just as a data point, using Apple's link, these things are barely worth repairing at this point.

Assuming that the Genius was right that my crashes were due to third party software, and their stress test found no hardware problems:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/reuse_and_recycle

Apple MacBook Pro Core i7 2.5 GHz 17" (Late-2011) (I7-2860QM) (MD311LL/A)

Estimate provided by PowerON:

$968.40

>> mokies

Just another option for you to consider is to install Ubuntu on your macbook pro (without the discreet graphics drivers. I did it and all works fine.)

Back on pg 21 (!!!) of this thread(https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?start=300&tstart=0) I gave the instructions for what I did and have cut the relevant paragraph out and pasted it below. Note that although I used the instructions for booting via usb pen via efi, I did not use a pen drive, but booted from an install cdrom, but I did use the grub2 instructions from that thread. The information may be getting a little old now since 13.04 is no longer the newest version of Ubuntu, but it may still work. I have since updated my 13.04 to 13.10 and everything updated fine so you can probably use those instructions with 13.10, it's just that I've not tested the installation process with 13.10 myself. Good luck!

<---- clip ---->

On a side note, if I weren't able to get it fixed, I did manage to install Ubuntu 13.04 on it working perfectly, with just the built in intel graphics. If you have no other option, can't get it replaced for free or at a cost you can/want to affort, and want to try that route, I used the information out of help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-2/Raring and the "booting from usb pen via efi" to try it out, and then askubuntu.com/questions/149921/how-to-add-a-command-permanently-to-grub2 to make it so I could boot directly from the drive straight into ubuntu. For my early 2011 15inch MBP specifically I added the "outb etc.etc." stuff to /boot/grub/custom.cfg (you'll know what that means if you read the links I just referenced), and then added i915.lvds.channel_mode=2 i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_use_ssc=0 after "quiet splash" in /etc/default/grub on line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT, and then ran sudo update -grub (which will update the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file for you.)

mokies wrote:

I really don't have the time or energy to try the suggestions put forward on this thread, baking my logic board in the oven for 8 minutes at 200 degrees is a little insane, although I'm sure people have had sucess. Running linux, using the Intel GPU could work but the discrete GPU is required to use my thunderbold display.

I'm not really sure what my next steps will be, but I reasonably sure Apple won't be a part of that plan.

200C Is in fact not even enough.

Gave my opinion on oven baking here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?answerId=24476742022#24476742022

If you want it repaired, look for a repairshop for reflow/reball/chip replacement.

Mostly it's no fix no pay, so, what you have to loose?

Unless you wait/hope for something from Apple of course.

Itzatez wrote:

If the GPU isn't damaged yet, i guess it's a matter of luck. If your laptop is one of the unlucky ones, the problem will show up eventually.

But in the end, those are only assumptions. Only Apple and AMD will know for sure.

Itzates, the GPU isn't damaged or the problem itself imo.

As I wrote here allready:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4766577?answerId=24161788022#24161788022

"It's not about the solder getting 150c to melt.

If it's not an intern GPU fault, it's prbabably bad soldering of the BGA.

Not all balls got fully liquidus or long enough TAL, not giving a 100% soldered connection.

It makes contact but is not really soldered, doesn't havea real intermetallic bond.

More "glued" instead of soldered.

It's the mechanical stress caused by heating/cooling cycles, making it expand and contract.

Breaking the "glued" connection, like the head-in-pillow photo posted."

Still stick with that (I do BGa repairs)

You can have a point that Mavericks uses the GPU more = more heat resulting in faster failing.

But if it is bound to fail, it will even without upgrading to Mavericks.

Hi Richard III!

I got my Macbook Pro late 2011 back from repair in Sweden just this week.The logic board was changed and the expenses were covered by Apple under the EU-wide consumer rights. The MBP was 2 years and 1 month. I think the consumer laws cover at least three years for laptops.

This is the english info page http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Swedish: http://www.apple.com/se/legal/statutory-warranty/

You have to go to the shop were you bought it. If it was directly from Apple, then just contract them.

My only wish is for Apple to man up and admit there is a manufacturing/design defect of the e2011 MBP and provide a free fix for the customers who have the issue like what happened with the 27inch iMac with the AMD 6970M graphics: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS5167

it seems there is some special consumer law in Australia > http://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/

here in europe i've had a free logic board replacement with the same kind of consumer law ;-)

unfortunately the new logic board failed less than a month after...

hope it helps...

http://images.apple.com/fr/legal/statutory-warranty/France_Statutory_Warranty.pd f

just call the phone number that you'll find in this pdf.

In my case they redirect me to a senior advisor, and decided to change my logic board for free.

You have to insist and call back ! (even if in most cases this is not a long term solution > mine just worked for one month, the mbp is now gone for a 2nd logic board replacement)