heat so bad it burned my wife's leg and Applecare says "RTM"

It is absolutely your fault if you don't read the manual, especially when the manual not to do something EXACTLY what you did. It's kind of funny how life wors sometimes, when people say something is going to happen, and it does, you get mad?

First, there's no need to be abusive.

Second, regardless of what Apple's manual says, I think that you would agree that being told that you cannot use a portable machine in a portable fashion is nonsense. Imagine for a second that you bought a new car. You take it out for a spin on the freeway driving at a normal speed, the engine siezes, and your car is now--for all extents and purposes--dead, and you were nearly killed in the process. You complain to the manufacturer who is refusing to repair the car, and they tell you that it's entirely your fault for not reading the manual, which clearly states that you were not supposed to drive your car on the freeway. In fact, it's only rated for surface streets and dirt roads. How angry would you be?

I know this is an exaggeration, but let's be honest here: if you get a product that doesn't work in the way that other similar products do, you're going to be upset. I can go out right now and buy a Sony, Dell, or Gateway notebook and use it on my lap without injury. Why shouldn't I expect to be able to do the same thing with comparable hardware from Apple?

Sorry to hear about what happened. My fiancee and I both bought Macbook Pro 17" computers last week and at first I found it strange that hers was getting red hot while mine was running fairly cool.

The problem was that she was playing a Shockwave game using Rosetta (PowerPC emulation), whilst I was using all universal apps. Your wife was playing a movie from the hard drive, but what program was she using? I think it is likely she was using a non-universal app that had to be run under Rosetta. This will cause the processor to work a lot harder, and the laptop to get hot. The solution is to download a universal or Intel video player, like the Intel version of VLC:

http://www.videolan.org/mirror.php?mirror=http://downloads.videolan.org/pub/vide olan/&file=vlc/0.8.5/macosx/intel/vlc-0.8.5-intel.dmg

I had a PC laptop before my Macbook, and it also had a dedicated graphics chip and fast processor. It would get just as hot on the bottom. My fiancee had a laptop without a dedicated graphics card and would actually get hotter when playing games. Unfortunately, laptops will always get burning hot in many situations, and the only solution is to reduce the complexity of what you are doing, or buy a lower power laptop, such as the miniature Sony Vaios.

Yaeff, I agree with you. Something has to be done about this. They can't call this a "Laptop" if you can't use it on your lap top. They might as well call it a portable computer instead.

You should call Apple again and have them escalate it to a supervisor and start complaining. Tell them you have pictures.

Apple's support page for notebooks includes the following text:

Apple: "For prolonged use, place your portable computer on a flat stable surface. Do not leave the bottom of the computer in contact with your lap or any surface of your body for extended periods. Prolonged contact with your body could cause discomfort and potentially a burn."

Fine. I can live with the fact that the bottom may get very warm and prolonged contact will cause a burn. Unfortunately, "prolonged contact" for my MBP is about 3-4 seconds before I get 1st degree burns from the bottom.

Apple: "The computer's internal fans turn on automatically within a temperature range that is selected to ensure proper operation of the computer."

Unfortunately, this is not the case for my MBP and many others -- the fans simply don't spool up enough to keep the surfaces cool.

Apple: "Apple portable computers comply with temperature limits set in national and international safety standards when used in accordance with the instructions in the user guide. Instructions include the advice not to place the computer on your lap for extended periods."

Somehow I doubt that these temperature limits in safety standards include upper surface areas that are hot enough to cause burns within 3 seconds. I would not want a young child watching a movie or even using my MBP simply because if they did put their hands on the keyboard and touched the area above the F-keys, they would be burned almost immediately. IMHO, that is unacceptable.

FYI, the area above the F-keys on my MBP 17 get to about 120F. The underside is quite a bit warmer than 125F (where my thermometer tops out).

Apple: "There are third-party utilities that measure the temperature of a notebook. It is important to understand that these utilities are not measuring the external case temperature. The actual case temperature is much lower."

Ok. My lower case temp exceeds 52C and my upper case temps reach 49C. While these temps are "much lower" than the CPU core temps of 80C, they still are not acceptable no matter what Apple claims. The next recommendation from Apple will be: "While we provide a built-in keyboard and touch-pad, these are only for use in Alaska and Siberia during the Winter. All others should connect USB keyboards and mice."

MBP 17 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

I'm not trying to incite a fight, but for gods sakes man, regardless of what Apple says in fine print in a manual, the general perception of MacBooks/Powerbooks is that they are 'laptops'. If Apple wasn't able to make MacBooks cool enough to be used on your lap (which is a perfectly reasonable desire from a "portable computer" like this) then perhaps they should have modified the case to accomdate for more fans, or better heat distribution. It's pathetic that these things get as hot as they do. I've owned 3 Apple "laptops" in the past. A titanium and 2 of the more recent 15" G4 powerbooks and NONE of them got near as hot as my 17" does now...

I know how you'll reply I'm sure which was 'Well, don't buy one if you can't deal with it' but as I pointed out earlier, it's a perfectly reasonable expectation to use this thing on your lap and not all consumers scour online forums to read about the NON STOP problems with all the Apple products that get released.

Stop standing up for Apple like 'they told us so'. We should expect MORE from a company that prides itself on being miles ahead of it's competition. OSX is only going to be reason enough for so long...

how dumb is your wife to keep the macbook pro on her lap and let it burn here leg?? i mean seriously... when you feel it's getting overly hot.. shouldn't you take that S@#$ off your lap? to me thats just common sense

also, these aren't called laptops, they're called portables

they do get hot.. i bought a targus chill pad and ran the SMC firmware update, my MBP runs tight now..

currently sitting here with it on my lap... it gets warm, but when it gets TOO hot, i'll shut the lid or set it on a desk.. I'M NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND LET IT BURN MY LAP

thats pretty jacked up, you let your wife keep the MBP on her legs just to let it burn her legs and then you take a picture? You must not value her safety/comfort. you are not a real man

Actually, a portable is more like what you'll find here:

http://www.dell.com/html/us/products/e3/index.html

That's a portable computer. What we bought, regardless of whatever the **** apple wants to call it, is a laptop. It just is. It's a freaking laptop man. We SHOULDNT have to deal with this crap.

Apparantley Im one of the few educated people around here that actually READ a user guide. If I choose to use my portable on my lap, I won't complain about the heat, or I will find some kind of flat surface I can use to place upon my lap.

I believe these things would not only make me educated, but also posessing the common sense a lot of people around here lately seem to lack.

There are many types of portables, a notebook is just one of these types as is a tablet computer.

It's not a laptop, it isn't made for you to sloth around the house and use as you sit on the couch. It's made for professionals who need a computer they can take on the go with them and work from varied locations (on a flat surface).

A portable fashion does not mean on your lap, while plenty of people (including myself) will put their book on their lap at times the fact is the user's manual which tells you how to use your expensive machine has something in it to protect you from a potentially bad experience.

All other manufacturers are calling their portables notebooks and also warning against lap use for the same reason Apple is.

One of the main benefits of these MBP/powerbooks has always been how quiet and thin they are, and that is due to the method of cooling that uses the case to conduct out heat. They have for quite sometime had hot bottom casings along with the same wording in the user's manual. This is NOTHING new for this line. Why is everyone surprised?

You can use this in your lap if you simply place something flat underneath it, it can be the exact size of the laptop, or any numerous trays you might use to eat a tv dinner on, or a specialized stand.

how dumb is your wife to keep the macbook pro on her
lap and let it burn here leg?? i mean seriously...
when you feel it's getting overly hot.. shouldn't you
take that S@#$ off your lap? to me thats just common
sense

I guess it must have been a really really good film.

how long does it take for your wife to realize maybe it's too hot for her? Call me old fashion, but if something that's on my lap is burning my skin, i would remove it ASAP and why she leave it on her for this long?

it's like walking outside to my car when it's 100 degrees outside, lay my hands on the hood and instead of removing my hand, i left my hands on the hood for 30 minutes.

come on people, use common sense.
also, it's a "Notebook"

There are many types of portables, a notebook is just
one of these types as is a tablet computer.

It's not a laptop, it isn't made for you to sloth
around the house and use as you sit on the couch.
It's made for professionals who need a computer they
can take on the go with them and work from varied
locations (on a flat surface).

Do we have to sit up straight too?

Apples have been marketed to the "creative professionals" for a long time, many (if not most) "sloth around" the Starbucks, sit on the couch, or god-forbid, the FLOOR and put the computer in their lap, and do lots of productive work. (Until the battery dies after 10 minutes at full charge, but that's another story.)

(BTW if apple intended the MBP to be solely a "professional" machine, why do they market iLife and FrontRow on the MBP page?)

There is no excuse for the heat profile of the boxes delivered to customers, particularly when properly assembled (getting rid of the thermal paste spewed all over the processors), the box is no warmer than my old, dear departed Pismo.

c.


MacBookPro Mac OS X (10.4.6) W8607

First I'm sorry to hear about your wife's pain. Due to the poor quality of that picture, that does not look like a burn. Her leg appears patterned, and a warm mac book pro would produce a patch of erythema, as opposed to scattered small patches like in the picture. Nonetheless, regardless of the poor quality photo, it looks like a first degree superficial burn (equivalent to a sunburn) and she should make a full recovery.

First, there's no need to be abusive.

Agreed, but he wasn't, he was stating that the owners manual has warnings, much like a hot cup of McDonalds coffee, that there is significant enough heat production to produce a burn so had fair warning. By the statements made, sounds like she was putting a bare mac book pro on her bare skin... a poor idea for any notebook.

Second, regardless of what Apple's manual says, I
think that you would agree that being told that you
cannot use a portable machine in a portable fashion
is nonsense.

You can use it portably; its portability does not indicate that it should be used for a prolonged duration on a lap. Technically an iMac is pretty portable too, you just don't want to carry it around though.

Imagine for a second that you bought a

new car. You take it out for a spin on the freeway
driving at a normal speed, the engine siezes, and
your car is now--for all extents and purposes--dead,
and you were nearly killed in the process. You
complain to the manufacturer who is refusing to
repair the car, and they tell you that it's entirely
your fault for not reading the manual, which clearly
states that you were not supposed to drive your car
on the freeway. In fact, it's only rated for surface
streets and dirt roads. How angry would you be?

Actually it's much different... Your wife did not experience a near death experience, I don't sympathize nor appreciate your analogy. If you said that they had heated seats, and the manual says May cause buttock burning, I'd totally agree with you... and would make a completely appropriate analogy.

I know this is an exaggeration, but let's be honest
here: if you get a product that doesn't work in the
way that other similar products do, you're going to
be upset. I can go out right now and buy a Sony,
Dell, or Gateway notebook and use it on my lap
without injury. Why shouldn't I expect to be able to
do the same thing with comparable hardware from Apple?

No, all laptops get hot. All laptops have the potential to create a burn, it's the whole process of physics and distribution of energy.

I know I'm being a jerk, and I don't care. You were warned in the owners manual, and if your wife doesn't have the neurovascular capacity to sense an overwhelming amount of heat that my cause a burn, I suggest she gets checked for some peripheral neuropathy, because most people know to take something hot off themselves if it feels too warm.

And if she thought it felt cold, I suggest she goes to an emergency room immediately to rule out severe neurologic dysfunction.

Good luck with the repair, and be sure to wear some pants and use discretion when placing a warm laptop on your legs.