Previous 1 27 28 29 30 31 Next 598 Replies Latest reply: Oct 15, 2014 8:14 PM by Hannaabe Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    Try the steps in these articles first:


    If after restoring the device as new, you still have this issue, it is likely a hardware problem.  Contact Apple Support or visit an Apple Store.  If you are under warranty, the replacement is free.  If you are outside of warranty, the replacement for an iPhone 4S is $199.  If you are eligible for an upgrade through your wireless carrier, do that instead, and then purchase Apple Care Plus for two years of coverage on the new device.

  • Almin_o Level 1 Level 1

    If it happens just one moth after the warranty period like in my case with 4s? I am using iphone 4 with almost the same apps and it's working normaly, no problem at all...

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    Your 4S seems to have a defect.  Your 4 seems to not have a defect.

    You can always ask for an exception from Apple since you are only one month over.  But it's not likely they will do so.


    You could have purchased AppleCare for $69 before the warranty ran out, or AppleCare Plus for $99 within the first 30 days.  It's unfortunate that you chose not to do so.  Now, you either have to hope that Apple will be lenient, or pay $199 to replace your iPhone 4S out of warranty.  Which is still far less than the retail price.


    Or see if your carrier offers an upgrade, or if you had insurance with them, etcetera.

  • MarcioV Level 1 Level 1

    Right, a defect caused by the company that made the product. Not the same as a wear-and-tear defect. Not the same as a user-caused defect. The customer should not have to pay more for an issue caused by an officially released Apple update, no matter how many times TJBUSMC1973 says otherwise. He just doesn't get it.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    The warranty guards against defects for the duration of the warranty.  That's what a warranty is, no matter what company offers it.


    Devices do not become defective; they are either defective at time of manufacture, or they are not. 

    What a warranty means is that the device will be free of observable defects that cause interference with the operation of the device.  If such occurs within the warranty period, it gets fixed.  After the warranty period, it is not fixed.


    As far as 'being up Apple's ***', krash, it has nothing to do with Apple specifically.  It has to do with the point of a warranty in the first place.  This could be a discussion about Ford, IBM, HP, Nissan, etc.  The manufacturer doesn't matter.  My response will be the same each time.


    Did the product work, as advertised, for the duration of the warranty period?


    If yes, then the contract between seller and buyer is fulfilled.


    If no, then the seller has the responsibility to repair/replace the product, and in my opinion, extend the warranty period by at least the time frame in which the device was not operating properly.


    I.E., the automobile was in the shop for three weeks?  Then add three weeks to my warranty period.


    You think I'm responding this way because it's Apple?  Hardly.  I'd say the same thing about an Android phone, about a Playstation 3, a Ford F-150, or a $5 alarm clock from K-Mart.


    It's about what a WARRANTY is.  Not the specific company.

  • krash357 Level 1 Level 1

    I agree with MarcioV. No comment on TJBUSMC1973 otherwise my post will be deleted!      Apple sold us defective wi-fi chips and doesn't even acknowledge the issue their own official software has laid bare. If such chips aren't able to handle some forms of iOS, why should the Apple customer pay for the resulting failure? Surely the chips should be able to handle all forms of iOS without the phone losing functionality. In all other cases, Apple is fully responsible for the malfunction.


    At this point, I want my money back more than anything else, not only because of the defective chip I was sold but because of Apples's attitude! I refuse to let that company keep my money for providing me bad hardware and service.    It was pure luck for Apple that earlier forms of iOS did not take out the defective chips at such a scale.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    krash, did your iPhone operate properly during the warranty period, yes or no?

  • krash357 Level 1 Level 1

    I know that Apple is legally covered! But is what they are doing ethical? I will be deciding upon this with my wallet for my next phone. Their official update has messed up my phone, either on purpose or by Apple's carelessness. Apple is losing one customer at least


    FYI, warranty applies to equipment sold in perfect working order. My phone cannot be considered to have been in perfect working order as there was an underlying defect. Had I known about it earlier, I would have gotten a replacement for free but, since I am not allowed to dismantle the phone for my own tests (yes i am an electrical engineer) for fear of voiding the famous warranty, I was mislead into thinking that I had bought a phone in perfect shape.


    I have a good example for you regarding that. BMW recently recalled 2002 3-Series cars worldwide for airbag repairs. All the cars were out of warranty since they were at least 10 years old. Yet, the repairs were carried out for free! I wonder why....

  • Sid Harper Level 1 Level 1

    You still don't get it. Running 6.1.2 these devices would in most cases I am sure have continued to operate just fine in relation to this particular issue.


    6.1.3 destroyed that percentage of hardware where this latent defect was present.


    Who created and released 6.1.3? It's a maintenance update from the manufacturer that highlighted a manufacturing defect in their own equipment rendering for many people the device unfit for purpose (I regard wifi as an essential function). Irreversibly so by virtue of it not just being a software malfunction but a permanent hardware failure that would, even if it were possible to revert to 6.1.2, make the unit unable to function.


    That carries a liability irrespective of warranty period.

  • MarcioV Level 1 Level 1

    Another gem from our clueless friend TJBUSMC1973: "Devices do not become defective; they are either defective at time of manufacture, or they are not."


    According to his twisted logic, anything ever purchased that eventually failed was defective when it left the factory. I guess all lightbulbs ever sold are defective then.  LOL

  • Sid Harper Level 1 Level 1

    And there is a difference between failure in line with the MTBF and failure due to an external event (be that exposure to moisture, an impact, or in firmware updates authorised or unauthorised).


    You could reversibly argue based on your view that really if you jailbreak your phone the hardware should continue to be warranted.


    Anyway it does rather seem pointless trying to get these concepts through to you. You are warranty as a binary thing. This issue is not about warranty but induced failure. We don't know the exact engineering issue that is the cause at the moment but what's to say that a big portion of those with a working 6.1.3 today haven't shortened their iPhone failure point by a significant amount.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    @ krash What are they doing, krash?  What is Apple's official position on this issue?  Can you show me a press release, or anything official from Apple?  Nope, because there isn't one... well, at least the last time I looked.  But go ahead and look for one.


    And you're misinformed about a warranty.  A warranty is a promise that the device has no defects, and that if it does have a defect, then for the stated period of time.  If it isn't working properly at time of purchase, then you should immediately return it for a replacement.  A warranty is not only relevant to equipment in proper working order.


    And why did BMW do a recall?  Because a faulty airbag is an extreme safety hazard.  Are you really comparing a wi-fi inconvenience issue to a potentially fatal one?




    @Sid.  You're assuming that the devices would not have failed under 6.1.2.  And yet, some defective wi-fi chips HAVE failed without upgrading to 6.1.3, which was released March 19.  Look at this thread: from December 22, 2012.  This device had greyed out wi-fi BEFORE 6.1 was even released, let alone 6.1.1, .2, or .3.


    So, would you care to adjust your opinion that "Running 6.1.2 these devices would in most cases I am sure have continued to operate just fine in relation to this particular issue"?


    And read my post from yesterday.  I said: "I actually do side with the customer here.  I never said that Apple should NOT do more.  In fact, I've stated that I think, personally, that they should.  I even pointed out that Apple has done more in the past with defective items."


    And nothing I've said would support warranty coverage for a jailbroken device.  Do I really have to get into minor semantics with you?  Fine.




    Did the product work, as advertised, for the duration of the warranty period, with no unauthorized modifications performed on the product?


    There we go!  Now we've excluded 'jailbreaking' or 'unauthorized service'.  I can play the semantics game all day.  You knew what I meant.




    @Marcio: A normal light bulb that burns out is not defective.  It stops working after normal wear & tear.  There's a difference.  I never said that all devices that eventually stop working were defective.  I like how you try to twist my words around, and fail at it so badly.  But allow me to try to streamline it for you: Devices do not spontaneously generate a manufacturing defect; they either have that defect at time of manufacture, or they do not.


    Devices can wear out over time.  That's called entropy.  But a manufacturing defect doesn't just appear one day.  It's either there or not there when it was built.



    And once again... has your device been officially diagnosed with this issue?  My guess is still 'no'.


    And has Apple made any official statement about their intentions regarding this issue?  I don't have to guess on that one.  They have not.


    Now... if Apple comes out and says, "Yes, the iOS upgrade caused a failure that would not have otherwise happened.  But if you were out of warranty, too bad, so sad", then ask me my opinion again.  Or if some third-party produces verifiable evidence that this is what happened, okay.  But as of this moment, there are simply a very low percentage (again, the high end estimate is 0.5%) of wi-fi complaints that could be related to this root cause.  No verifiable evidence.  No official statement by Apple.  And it's only those customers outside of warranties that are being adversely affected, which means even less than than that 0.5% are affected.


    What this boils down to is this:

    A) Legally, Apple is within the agreement of the warranty.


    B) The iOS upgrade did not cause the defect; it simply revealed the defect.  It didn't 'break' the phone.  It made the defect obvious.  It's like putting a wood stain on a dinner table.  You don't see the scratches at first, until the stain makes them very easy to see.


    C) Apple has not yet addressed this issue publicly.  However, the OOW replacement option is above the industry standard, and a voluntary decision by Apple for any OOW issue.  They don't have to offer anything... and yet they are.


    D) My personal opinion is that they should do something more, but are not required by any means.  I believe they will do so, based on past history of the company, and I'm willing to wait and see.


    E) My position regarding warranties is not specific to Apple.  Therefore, any commentary that I'm 'up Apple's [blank]', or a 'fan-boy' is ridiculous.  I own an Android phone as well.  Our discussion leans towards Apple because... wow, because this is an Apple-themed forum, maybe?


    Your ball, gentlemen.  I'll be interested to see if you actually address the points I made, or continue with the personal attacks.


    Well, actually, Sid, I don't think you've really done that too much.  I might disagree with you, but I believe you've mostly remained civil.  You haven't had any posts deleted that I know of because of personal insults and attacks.  With you, I can have a polite, even though opposed, conversation.

  • krash357 Level 1 Level 1

    Exactly my point TJBUSMC1973, they are doing absolutely nothing apart from expecting money for making up for their own blunder.


    The device came with a latent defect that only came to light past the warranty date for most people. I know about the defect because of Apple's own software update. Until I found out, I was mislead into buying a defective product! It is natural that I want my money back! If a firm deceives its customers, whether intentionally or inadvertently, it should take responsibility for the deception and make up for it; asking for money is just plain wrong on so many levels!


    Also, the airbag in a car is a 'luxury' (your own term!). As you may know, not ALL road-legal cars have airbags and neither are they required by law to have them (think vintage cars). In fact, you can turn off the airbag in most cars fitted with them. You are even required to do so when, for example, you put an infant seat in the front seat. Why did BMW not tell all their affected customers to suck it up and live without airbags?? Only Apple supporters see such an argument as fair.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5

    Exactly my point, krash! Apple has yet to make an official statement about this issue.  And since less than 1 out of 200 customers (again, high end estimate) are having an issue with this secondary function, and even fewer of those are unable to resolve the issue via free replacements or basic troubleshooting steps, it's not a high-priority for Apple.  There is no safety hazard involved.  It makes far more sense for Apple to address the (even rarer) instances of battery leakage or dangerously overheating devices, because those are safety issues.  Even though fewer customers are affected by those issues, it's a more critical one.  Compare your defective airbags to, say, a defective navigation system.  Which one should an auto manufacturer focus on?


    The OOW replacement fee is not specific to this issue.  It is for ANY device that has a non-warranty covered issue (with some exceptions, of course, like missing devices or total catastrophic damage). Until Apple makes an offer specific to this issue, the normal OOW is the fall back option.  Apple hasn't said it's the ONLY option.


    And, no, an airbag is not a 'luxury'.  They have been federally required for all passenger vehicles manufactured after August 31, 1998.  Fifteen years since they've been a 'luxury'.  So, why did BMW do a recall?  Because they would have been in violation of a federal regulation otherwise, and it involved a feature related to safety.  Your comparison of a federally mandated piece of automotive safety equipment to a convenience feature on a personal electronic device is utterly ludicrous.

  • Almin_o Level 1 Level 1

    This morning I took my 4s and the wifi was working. After checking my e-mail it stopped again. It seems that the problem, at least in my case, its not in the hardware.

Previous 1 27 28 29 30 31 Next