International Keyboard on MacBook

Drats.

I did call the Swiss Apple before ordering (from the Swiss 'French' on-line store) and the lady there assured me -- twice -- that all International English laptops shipped with a QWERTY keyboard. She was ever so charming, trying to pronounce QWERTY with her Swiss French accent.

She then transferred me to the sales team. So I went ahear and ordered. I guess I'll know soon enough.

I should've asked her name so that she could exchange my stuff 🙂

The keyboard on Macs sold in the UK, South Africa and some other countries is the ISO keyboard. It differs from the US keyboard in having an inverted L Enter key, an extra key and a slightly different key layout.

Peter

laptops shipped with a QWERTY keyboard. She was ever
so charming, trying to pronounce QWERTY with her
Swiss French accent.

hmm, maybe I should call again as well - I did call last year when I bought my powerbook. They told me I'd get the US keyboard but in the end it had a Swiss one after all 😟
When I tried to have to keyboard exchanged, they eventually told me that Apple doesn't ship US-keyboard models to Switzerland. With the powerbooks it was easy, though - you could just go to an Apple Center, order a US-keyboard there und have it installed. That cost about 180 Swiss Franks. Unfortunately, the Macbook's keyboard is not replaceable.

The keyboard on Macs sold in the UK, South Africa and some other countries is the ISO keyboard

I had qualified both in "Europe" and excluding the "UK". The British English keyboard has a £ symbol rather than a # for shift-3 amongst other differences. The International Emglish version keyboard is not avaialable in the UK either hence my exclusion.

South Africa the last time I checked is not in Europe. Maybe one day! 😉

Wasn't critisising you, just adding some info.


South Africa the last time I checked is not in Europe. Maybe one day! 😉


With plate tectonics, who knows? 🙂

The keyboard on Macs sold in the UK, South Africa and
some other countries is the ISO keyboard. It differs
from the US keyboard in having an inverted L Enter
key, an extra key and a slightly different key
layout.

Peter

Do you know if that's going to be the case with the MacBook's chicklet keyboard? Can anyone who's seen one confirm / refute? I was hoping its design would make that too tricky. I have no idea why Apple forces that tiny vertical enter key on us UK users (to say nothing of the stupid alt-' to cycle windows which is correspondingly not intuitively next to the tab key) - yes we want the £ key but changing over the option modifier and a bit of paint for the £ and # is enough! Info would be useful as getting stuck with the bizarro keyboard (ISO or not) combined with the cheaper price would swing me to buy one in the US.

896/3342

Hi Steve and All,

Ned's reply has the correct information.
In Belgium, France, Germany or one of these countries where the standard layout is obviously different, Apple usually offers the "International keyboard" option, that is, the US keyboard which offers the standard US layout (not the UK one), quite helpful when using Terminal for example (as Terminal is US-only).

Now in Switzerland or such a small QWERT. country, the problem is more complicated:
You have to check at the right of the PLM keys, see if you have the US semicolon, comma etc, or if you find the Swiss French é, è etc.

Do not ask about QWERTY in the French part of Switzerland, because the Swiss French layout is a kind of QWERT. like for example the Canadian French one.
You have to be more specific and ask about the accented é, è etc on the right.

The "International" (US) should be available in French speaking Switzerland? Hopefully?
--> I can tell you in Finland and in Sweden (same QWERTY layout with, again, some differences on the right with ä, ö etc), you can order the "International" (US) keyboard if you wish.

By the way, standards like ISO include a different layout for almost each country in the world.
There is not one ISO layout (that would be the US one, I presume?).
Rather, the ISO standard says the US standard is
qwertyuiop[]\
and the French standard is
azertyuiop^$`
and the German standard is
qwertzuiopü+#
etc etc etc.

The Swiss French is
qwertzuiopè¨$
the Belgian is
azertyuiop^$`
(there is no Flamish layout: only the French, so Flamish Belgians probably use the Nederlands layout?)

In a word:
If you order an "International " keyboard, you should get a US keyboard.

Sorry for the UK: too close, only the £ key differs 🙂
Axl

In Belgium, France, Germany or one of these countries
where the standard layout is obviously different,
Apple usually offers the "International keyboard"
option, that is, the US keyboard which offers the
standard US layout (not the UK one)

No, NOT true for The Netherlands, so I wonder if it is really true for any other European country.

The really standard US layout has an Enter key that is about the same size as a Shift key and sits to the right of the ' or " key. However, the international English version, though indeed QWERTY, has a small, vertically shaped Enter key that uses two rows, and therefore has the \ or | key placed left to the Enter key rather than above it.

This small and oddly placed Enter key is NOT nice at all! Many people in The Netherlands complain about that.

The Dutch LOCAL keyboard is even worse, as that has the very same odd Enter key, but also an additional key sitting between the left Shift and the Z, which holds the ` and ~, where one normally would expect the left Shift. Above the Tab key one finds the § and ± characters, which nobody ever uses... Nice though: unlike both the US layout and the international English layout, on which some buttons have text printed on them, the Dutch local version just shows some symbols on the Shift, Caps Lock, Option and the (two) Enter keys. However, the text for Num Lock (F6) is in Dutch, but Page, Home and End are in English. And it also has a Euro character.

See http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn21899bc.jpg and compare that to the layout many desire: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/12241.jpg

In a word: If you order an "International " keyboard, you
should get a US keyboard.

I wish that would have been true.

Now, the question remains... WHY?


MacBook 2GHz 2GB Mac OS X (10.4.7)

I've put a photo of an International English keyboard, as purchased in the Netherlands, online. See this thread.

Arjan.

MacBook 2GHz 2GB Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Thanks Arjan.

AxL: you're wrong. I've had a chance to see the MacBook keyboard in person and it as Arjan has posted. In a word, horrible. It's not as noticeable on a full size keyboard, but makes the keys really cramped on a laptop.

While my intent is to wait till rev B or even Leopard installed as standard, I'm in the US next week and may get tempted. There's no way I'm buying a UK model when I'd have to pay more and get that keyboard!

Arjan, thank you for finally clearing up for me the difference between Apple's US and International English keyboards - this has been puzzling me for ages.

I can't comment much on the MacBook angle, but I'm about to order a BlueTooth wireless keyboard for my PowerBook, and since I live in Germany my choices are "English" or "International English". By Googling the part numbers, I've figured out that the "English" BT keyboard stocked by the German Apple Store is the UK English variant. So I suppose I'll be ordering the International English version then, and hope that - unlike the MacBook - it does not have the awful Return key.

Here is why: The sad and stupid fact is that the EU does not allow keyboards that have the US arrangement to be sold/imported within the EU. The rectification is "US English is not a official EU language". Its like if the US would forbid importing of german or french cars just because the german/french road traffic regulations are not valid in the US. It is a joke.

So they made this "International" version which has the same physical arrangement like i.e. the german or british layout but US labeling plus Euro sign. They had to make something physically different to comply with this nonsense EU regulation.

You can not even import a MacBook from the US legally via Amazon or others. Same is true for the US version of the Pro Keyboard (i am not sure if this is true for spareparts, so ordering a replacement keyboard for the MBP from the US may work). For the MB or the Pro Keyboard the only way to get one is "smuggling" it into Europe. Switzerland however offers a MBP with US Keyboard (i wonder if this is the real one). Then again Switzerland is nor part of the EU (wise guys)

This is the most stupid regulation I have ever heard of.

Mac OS X (10.4.8)

The sad and stupid fact is that the EU does not allow
keyboards that have the US arrangement to be
sold/imported within the EU.

Uhhh, wow.

Are things different for non-laptops? It seems odd to me that non-Apple computers (at least desktop computers) do often ship with keyboards with a US layout.

That is: in the Netherlands; I don't know about other EU countries. But then, of course, the Dutch voted against the EU "constitution" in 2006 😉

For the Dutch: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toetsenbord

Arjan.

MacBook 2GHz 2GB Mac OS X (10.4.8)

I think it's for all keyboards. That's what Apple Store Germany told me. You can only order the "International" version from the German store (and I can't order from the Swiss store, they only ship to addresses in Switzerland). The international pro keyboard also has the big (L-shaped) enter key and an additional key next to the left shift key.

Afaik an exception are servers and the manufacturer Cherry. They are allowed to ship US keyboards. But I am not 100% sure if this is a fact.

At least you were asked to vote for/against the constitution. In germany they did not - the majority of the people would have been (and are still) against it.

Andreas

Need help!

im buying my first macbook and i want the international english version so i have two questions:

1) is this keyboard the standard US version or something else ( in the finnish webstore) ? does it resemble the US version?

2) if a decide that i want the finnish operating system on my mac and on the international keyboard can i just change the operating system that would make the international keyboard the finnish keyboard so that id just change a couple of buttons....???