iPhone to Android iMessage bug fix

djfiii wrote:

Alibaba2k2 wrote:

When was iMessage deregistered for you? If already done, the problem lies with the other users and not you. It's your responsibility to reach out to your contacts and let them know you are changing to a non apple phone. If they can't contact you, it's not Apple's fault. How are they supposed to know you changed phones. Apple doesn't maintain the carrier networks only the hardware.

That's a rediculous suggestion - that the burden should be on us to reach out to every single contact to tell them we are no longer using an Apple phone? Particularly when it's an obvious intentionally engineered bug? Apple just chooses not to fix it because it forces people to either stick with Apple products, or be massively inconvenienced. This was never an issue before Apple phones came along - you could switch from a Motorola to a Nokia to a Samsung to a Blackberry to whatever else, and SMS service was never interrupted.

Here are the facts:

1) iMessage traverses Apple's network, independent of carrier networks. So it's basically just a TCP/IP app.

2) As a result of #1, Apple can see whether or not both ends of the communication are using iPhones, and can act accordingly. This is evidenced by those neat little tricks - the fact that you can see someone else typing, or that they read your message, etc. In fact, the protocol is specifically designed to automatically resend an iMessage as SMS, if for example the other iPhone user is not in a WiFi or 3G/4G area.

3) So, since the iMessage protocol natively attempts to resend as SMS if it detects the other end is out of a data coverage area, why should the issue in this thread even exist? I'll answer that for you - because it's Apple's heavy handed way of screwing with people that choose to leave their eco system.

Because the send as SMS option is only for when the iMessage doesn't get sent from the device properly, not for when it's not received by the other device properly. If the iMessage server shows that the phone number is still linked to iMessage, then it will try to send as an iMessage.

The solution is to call Apple to have them revoke the iMessage & Facetime certification from the phone number in question.

Alibaba2k2 wrote:

Just because the message application uses RTC protocols doesn't mean someone is monitoring your every move. That's what technology is for. Less maintenance. Lets put this in layman's terms. You change your phone number and don't contact your mortgage company. They are trying to reach you and tell you they have an overpayment for you due to a court settlement and if you don't claim it in 30 days, it's gone. Based on the settlement, the only way they are required to contact you is by phone. Who's the ownership on? You or the mortgage company? It's pretty funny that all the blame is pushed towards Apple. You can't say this never happened before Apple iPhones because they forced the industry to change and up their game with the first iPhone. Apple is in no way trying to keep you where you don't want to belong. They're too big and have the numbers to back them when customer defect. It's the cycle of life.

I totally agree that if you change your "phone number," it's your responsibility to let certain companies or friends know so they know how to contact you but let's say I'm using a Panasonic land line phone and decide to buy a GE land line phone. My carrier is still the same and my telephone number is still the same. Do companies or my friends need to know I changed the manufacturer of my phone or do they even care? No. My service shouldn't be interrupted or have any issue unless of course there's something wrong with the phone itself but that's not the case with this cell phone issue and text messages.

Everyone's phone works. It's just Apple still thinks people who stopped using an iphone are still using it and in my case, it seemed to be a problem with people who upgraded their iphones to ios7.

When I first realized some of my friends with iphones couldn't send me text messages any more. I figured it had something to do with my phone or my provider but when I contacted them, they immediately connectd me to an "Apple representative" because they said it "was an Apple issue." Apple made sure my number was out of their portal and then said my iphone friends had to delete all text messages to me along with my contact information and then add me again. If this is not an Apple issue, as you suggest, why is it that only iphone users are having a problem sending an Android user a text message?

sheryltoo wrote:

If this is not an Apple issue, as you suggest, why is it that only iphone users are having a problem sending an Android user a text message?

Because those Apple users are trying to send an iMessage to a phone number that is still registered in the iMessage server as linked to to an iPhone that has iMessage enabled.

It technically is an Apple issue, but only because the users switching from iPhones to non-iPhones are (usually) not turning off the iMessage feature on their iPhone.

If an iPhone user never turned on iMessage, then they'd never have this problem.

Additionally, the iMessage system is set up so that after a certain amount of time that a particular phone number doesn't use iMessage or Facetime, it is automatically deregistered. You can speed up this process by contacting Apple Support and having them revoke the certificate.

Has anyone that has actually called Apple Support and had the iMessage certificate revoked still had this issue after 48 hours has passed?

TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

sheryltoo wrote:

If this is not an Apple issue, as you suggest, why is it that only iphone users are having a problem sending an Android user a text message?

Because those Apple users are trying to send an iMessage to a phone number that is still registered in the iMessage server as linked to to an iPhone that has iMessage enabled.

It technically is an Apple issue, but only because the users switching from iPhones to non-iPhones are (usually) not turning off the iMessage feature on their iPhone.

If an iPhone user never turned on iMessage, then they'd never have this problem.

Additionally, the iMessage system is set up so that after a certain amount of time that a particular phone number doesn't use iMessage or Facetime, it is automatically deregistered. You can speed up this process by contacting Apple Support and having them revoke the certificate.

Has anyone that has actually called Apple Support and had the iMessage certificate revoked still had this issue after 48 hours has passed?

I have. In fact, I had the issue for over a month and I'm still not even sure the issue has been resolved. I only get text messages from a handful of people and most of my friends have been able to successfully send me a text after deleting me as a contact and all text messages but my brother has never been able to, at least not the last time I had him check. He has been able to send me a text but only after he gets a message saying it can't be sent as an imessage.He got tired of deleting me and trying to make this work correctly so he decided to live with having to resend my text messages after getting an error.

TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

Because the send as SMS option is only for when the iMessage doesn't get sent from the device properly, not for when it's not received by the other device properly. If the iMessage server shows that the phone number is still linked to iMessage, then it will try to send as an iMessage.

The solution is to call Apple to have them revoke the iMessage & Facetime certification from the phone number in question.

We agree on the problem - that it's with the device SENDING the message (which, in the context of this thread is iPhones - sending to non iPhones). It just seems we don't agree that Apple did anything wrong. The process of sending the message "properly" can, and should, include a check that the recipient is, or is not capable of receiving an iMessage. If not, send as SMS. Done and done. What's so complex about that? The protocol allows Apple to perform this check, but they apparently don't.

As many others have pointed out in this thread, calling Apple doesn't fix it - at least not for everyone. Apple told me the certificate was revoked for my number. I called over a month ago and I still have people tell me they sent me a text, and I never got it. I ask if it shows as iMessage and they confirm.

TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

sheryltoo wrote:

If this is not an Apple issue, as you suggest, why is it that only iphone users are having a problem sending an Android user a text message?

Because those Apple users are trying to send an iMessage to a phone number that is still registered in the iMessage server as linked to to an iPhone that has iMessage enabled.

It technically is an Apple issue, but only because the users switching from iPhones to non-iPhones are (usually) not turning off the iMessage feature on their iPhone.

If an iPhone user never turned on iMessage, then they'd never have this problem.

Additionally, the iMessage system is set up so that after a certain amount of time that a particular phone number doesn't use iMessage or Facetime, it is automatically deregistered. You can speed up this process by contacting Apple Support and having them revoke the certificate.

Has anyone that has actually called Apple Support and had the iMessage certificate revoked still had this issue after 48 hours has passed?

Sounds like we agree again, at least on the facts; still sounds like you are drawing a different conclusion about whether or not Apple is at fault here.

1) Yes, Apple users "are trying to send an iMessage" - not by choice, but because their phone has been rigged by Apple to screw everyone else. People use iMessage and Text Messaging interchangably. They don't talk about them as if they are two separate things. That's because the expectation from person A is that if they send a message to person B, they just want it to get there. They don't care if it goes as SMS or iMessage - most people with iPhones probably don't even know there is a difference.

If you asked any of them, I bet they'd say "hey, yep it would be nice if my phone didn't just send those iMessages into a void, but instead checked to make sure there is an iPhone at the other end to receive an iMessage, otherwise send as SMS.

2) Yes - it is technically an Apple issue; that's what we've been saying all along. Even users that turn of iMessage before switching have this problem.

3) Agreed - if iPhone users never turn on iMessage, they'd never have this problem. Are you suggesting that's the appropriate fix? Just don't use the feature because Apple intentionally made it suck for non Apple users? It is within Apple's power to check behind the scenes to make sure an outbound iMessage is viable, and if not, fall back to SMS; they choose not to for those that left for other devices; your fix is that everyone should just never have used iMessage to begin with?

4) I called over a month ago, was told my certificate was revoked, and still have the problem. I've called 3 subsequent times with no better results..

What's confusing is that if you never owned an iphone and your number has always been associated with a different operating system, Apple can successfully send you a text message. My brother never had any problems sending me text messages until I tried an iphone for 2 months and when I did try the iphone, I had no idea I was subscribing to imessage.

Apple does thing so differently from Android. You don't have to deactivate anything when you change phones which seems like it should be the case with Apple.

Perhaps Apple needs to figure out a way to link their phone number portals to the activation lines for cell phone carriers. When someone deactivates a phone with their carrier, I would have thought that sent a message to the Apple servers but apparently not.

iMessage is a closed messaging system that was copied from Blackberry Messenger (and BBM is still available.

You have to turn on iMessage to activate it. If you turn it off it goes away. If Google decided to start their own messenger service the same thing would apply.

You have to log into and activate iMessage, if you don't believe me do a search for all the people having problems getting iMessage to work.

There is no punishment here. If you turn iMessage off on your iPhone it will no longer be active. If you forget to do so you can call AppleCare and tell them you didn't do so and they will deactivate it.

No, I am not and you are not my friend.

That article is a year and a half old from one columnist. That proves nothing. With one exception every person I know who has moved from an iPhone was able to do so and not have a texting problem by either turning off iMessage before switching or calling afterwards. The one exception involved Sprint not provisioning the new phone correctly. One call took care of that issue.

deggie wrote:

No, I am not and you are not my friend.

That article is a year and a half old from one columnist. That proves nothing. With one exception every person I know who has moved from an iPhone was able to do so and not have a texting problem by either turning off iMessage before switching or calling afterwards. The one exception involved Sprint not provisioning the new phone correctly. One call took care of that issue.

How about the 100 or so people ******** about it in the 15+ pages of thread? You think we are all just making it up to annoy Apple Fanboys like you? Nope.

deggie wrote:

First I don't think there are 100 people here with the same problem, there are many people writing several times and some don't really have the same issue.

mkay. you're right, Apple is awesome and would never dream of intentionally making it difficult to leave their ecosystem. We are all just lying, since you know, your sample of 5 friends that didn't have trouble can clearly be extrapolated to the other 500 million people that own iPhones.

Never said that did I? Apple is not making it hard to leave since all you have to do is turn one switch from On to Off on their phone. If this is the best they can do at making it difficult to leave then they work harder. They also will turn it off if you call them.

If neither of those steps work there is another problem present that needs to be resolved.

I have seen no evidence that 500 million people are having a problem. If it is truly 100 people here what percentage of 500 million is that?

deggie wrote:

Never said that did I? Apple is not making it hard to leave since all you have to do is turn one switch from On to Off on their phone. If this is the best they can do at making it difficult to leave then they work harder. They also will turn it off if you call them.

If neither of those steps work there is another problem present that needs to be resolved.

I have seen no evidence that 500 million people are having a problem. If it is truly 100 people here what percentage of 500 million is that?

I don't have any idea how many people are having this problem but when it happened to me, like I said in some other post, my first course of action was to go to my cell phone carrier with both the iphone, since I still had it and my Android phone and see if they could fix it. I figured something was wrong with my phone. The first thing the rep did was "turn off imessage." I hadn't done it but then I never turned it on and not being Apple savy, had no idea that by just logging into an Apple account, that made it so I now had a "subcription" (to use the Apple care representative's term) to imessage.

My cell phone carrier said if turning off imessage didn't work, I'd have to contact Apple because this has been an on going problem for some time. Those were Verizon's words so obviously many people are having this problem. You are quite fortunate that your friends never had an issue but from all the google searching I've been doing ever since this annoying issue started, you seem to be one in a few.

If you love Apple products, I can understand why you don't want them taking the blame for this issue and I suppose in a way, those of us who switched from an iphone to an Android phone are to blame for leaving Apple. Shame on us for not wanting to use an iphone.

And after you called AppleCare did they they disconnect iMessage for you?

I don't care either way about Apple, it isn't a religion or my family. The fact that the Verizon rep, who sells iPhones, knows about this doesn't prove anything.