Print Colours not true in All Programs on My MacBook Pro

Hi:



I'm having colour issues with printing in all programs.


The colours are muted and dark. Eg. Royal Blue becomes a Denim Blue. A bright pink become a dusty rose. Reds are orange. Lime Green becomes Forest Green.


I have an HP 7500A printer. I experinced this difficulty with my old printer when I first got my Mac the printer was blamed and as it was 10 years old and dying I accepted that. Now my brand new printer has the same issue.


I've change the printer profiles in Pages and General CKMY is closest to true it reduces the muting but the colours are still dark and the shades are off. It slows the printer big time. Automatic or Vendor is awful the colours are so far off.


The issue is worse on my own Mac specific creations but is persistant through out all programs iPhoto, Pages, Safari, Adobe Elements 9, Mail etc.


I've been working with HP and they can't figure it out. They have sent me a new print head and are sending me another one. Uninstalled and reinstalled the printer software.


I've quereyed help and looked through system settings etc and can't see where to fix or change the colour settings with in the Mac itself.


😕 Can anyone out there shed some light on this.


Pantheria

MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid 2010), Mac OS X (10.6.8), Snow Leopard

Posted on Jun 21, 2013 5:33 PM

Reply
35 replies

Jul 3, 2013 4:57 PM in response to Pantheria

Hi:


I posted this in the Mac book Pro Forum as well. I started here so felt I should update this one aswell.


I upgraded to Mountain Lion and HP sent me a new printer. Neither solved the issue. I still get dark, muted shades when I print. As I showed in the post above.


Can anyone walk this Mac green horn through resetting my colour palletes on my Mac Book Pro. That is all I can think of unless someone has a better idea. Sledge hamer is looking very good right now.


All day yesterday at an internet cafe downloading Mountain Lion then the subsequent updates. Today installing the new printer downloading all it's software, drivers and updates.


All I want to do is print my creations the way I create them with the colours at least reasonably true.


😟

Jul 4, 2013 3:40 PM in response to Pantheria

Hi Kurt:


No, they won't have that sort of thing. They'll just point you to the System Preferences. Profiling the monitor is something that should be done once a month anyway to keep it within the same initial profiling result.


That statement triggered something in my dusty brain. Is this where you, Old Toad and LarryHN wanted me to change the profile and if so, which options do I choose? sRGB----? then what? Calibrate? I clicked on open profile didn't change anything that file is beyond me. I was going to applications...utilities..color sync.



User uploaded file

If calibrating the Display Profile will improve the colour matching at least a little bit I am willing to give it a shot.


Can it be reset to default ifr the change makes things worse or I mess things up?


I checked out i1 One Display Pro. I liked what I saw and if I understood correctly the device can be used on mutliple monitors. At this time most of my creations are gifts and not income producing. i1 Display is way beyond my means in this now moment. Well over $300.00 Canadian plus taxes and shipping etc.

Jul 5, 2013 4:45 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Got brave and shook some of my feathers off.


Choose the following settings and the print out colours where closer to what I can see on screen.


LCD Calibrated


Then 2.2 Gamma Standard for the target gamma

Native for the white point. I believe this would be the 6500K


These are the choices I was offered with out going into expert mode. Didn't even consider going into expert mode. {LOL}


Which of these would respresent the 5500K you spoke of?


User uploaded file

I must admit Kurt that I am very intrigured by this. I want to find some training courses and delve much deeper. I'm going to try the D50 and D65 and see what happens. I can change it back if I don't like it.

Jun 22, 2013 8:26 AM in response to Old Toad

Thanks Old Toad.


When I went in to ColorSync today to take a screenshot the profiles are all there it's weird. the only HP profiles are for the fancy photo and brochure papers.


I will be uninstalling and reinstalling all the software and drivers for the printer. HP wants me to wait until the new printhead is installed. When I went to their webpage lastnight I discovered they no longer have drivers for

Mac OS X 10.6.8. I may have to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion.


Pantheria

Jul 4, 2013 6:26 AM in response to Old Toad

Old Toad wrote:



I still get dark, muted shades when I print.


Change the color profile to sRGB on one of those photos and try printing again. I've read that CMYK tend to print dark and muddy on inkjet printers.

Hi Old Toad:


I did as suggested. It did improve the vibrancy the prints are not nearly as muted or dusty. The colours however, are even darker then before. 😕


This is now this and This is nowthis Purples, and Pinks and blues are off but the greens seem to be the most off from the original shades.


Pantheria

Jul 4, 2013 9:29 AM in response to Pantheria

Lets go back to the begining


For iPhoto you must use RGB color profiles - not CYMK

This is the color profile fo the photo - not the color profile you are printing with - you can see the color profile by exporting the photo nad using the inspector in Preview


And I note in your screen shot you have slected Adobe RGB - Adobe RGB does produce dark prints with muddy colors


And the other issue is the color calibration of your screen -- if it is wrong you will never get what you want - your computer does not "look" at yoru photos and print them like that - you look at them by using one profile to display on a light based system and a totally different profile and conversion system creates the image for the dye based printing


Try a new photo taken using sRGB and the default setting for your display and printer and see what happens -- often "bad" colors are a function of user fiddling too much and using all default setting is better - expecially if you are not an expert and do not have professional calibrating equipment


LN

Jul 4, 2013 9:30 AM in response to Pantheria

Chacning the printer profile to sRGB doesn't change the profile that is embedded in the image file.


You can change the profile with ColorSync Utility or download and this Automator workflow app, Convert to JPG and Embed sRGB profile, whic is downloadable from Toad's Cellar.


Export a photo to the desktop using File ➙ Export ➙ File Export and Size = Original. Unzip the app and drop the file on the app. Import the converted file into iPhoto and try printing again.

Jul 4, 2013 10:00 AM in response to LarryHN

Hi LarryHN:


Please note the Adobe selection is automatically highlighted when I open the widow and is not saved. I have to choose to keep any of these profies as defaults unless I have selected them as defaults which I have not.


I may be new to the Mac but I am not new to printing. I did desktop publishing for many years. I no longer do it as a business just for the pleasure of creating. I merely printed from each of the profiles to see if any would improve the colour. The CKMY was closest to true.


As noted earlier the issue is systemic throughout all programs not just iPhoto and this thread was posted here by accident and I have posted as well in the MacBook Pro forum.


I know nothing about calibrating the screen colours as far as I know I haven't attempted to. I did go in and view the profiles in Colour Sync but changed nothing as I was unfamiliar with it and didn't know what to change or how.

Jul 4, 2013 10:19 AM in response to Old Toad

Hi Old Toad:


As I noted to LarryHN.


This issue is systemic in all programs not just iPhoto.


I haven't attempted to change anything in Color Sync as I wasn't sure what to change or how to change it. I did look at it as noted earlier to see what profiles where available. I noted when I was in Color Sync previously there was an option for darker or lighter. Couldn't find that option when I upgraded to Mountain Lion.


I am not entirely green I have had my Mac and {wouldn't go back} now for a little over two years. It does take some getting used to. I am not afraid to explore and look through things but when I don't have and idea what I'm looking for or what needs changing it makes it challenging to say the least.


When I got the MacBook Pro and the old printer had colour issues. I was told it was my printer {which was aged and tired}. When that printer finally died and I got this one. My Mac is now off warrenty and the issue is much worse then it was with the old printer.


The Mac @ Works store where I bought this is now closed down. There are no Mac tecs close here now. I haven't checked the web site for that recently so there may be one.

Jul 4, 2013 10:35 AM in response to Pantheria

What I'm suggesting is just a test to see if changed a photo to sRGB will have any effect on the outcome. I know with my Epson and Canon inkjet printers CMYK profiles don't print well. Your HP may be newer and capable of handling CMYK profiles as the print driver seems to indicate.


Color management is a very complex topic and, in truth, a bit over my head.



You can see using ColorSync Utility how vastly different RGB and CMYK are.


I've asked someone who know a lot more about color management than I to drop by and see if they can help.

Jul 4, 2013 12:15 PM in response to Pantheria

In the most basic terms, you have a mismatch of what you see on screen, and what your printer is capable of reproducing. There is a lot of good information in LarryHN's post, but Adobe RGB does not produce muddier colors. If anything, it will produce richer colors since it's a much wider color space than sRGB.


This is going to be lengthy, and I hope not too difficult to grasp. Color management is complicated. Until it clicks (and then it finally seems easy), it's like trying to grasp quantum mechanics when you're still in 1st grade.


Main point first. All inkjet printers use at minimum, CMYK inks. Yours uses those four colors. Other models use that and extra, richer colors to boost the color range beyond what CMYK alone can reproduce. Usually a rich red and a rich blue since CMYK alone cannot even come close to the saturated blues and reds of RGB. Those richer colors also help boost greens and reds past CMYK by combining that rich blue with yellow instead cyan, and the rich red with yellow instead of magenta.


Problem. Virtually all inkjet printers are RGB devices and work best with RGB images, despite the fact they use CMYK inks. There is no such thing of course as RGB inks. RGB is color described as additive light. CMYK is subtractive light and is the closest you can come to RGB using dyes or pigments.


What all inkjet printer manufacturers do is set up the hardware to do its own conversion of RGB data to CMYK. They do that simply because that's what the vast majority of home and office users print; RGB, not CMYK data. The conversion tables in the printer automatically divide out the RGB data to the richer inks (if your printer has them) to give you a closer match to the screen.


Second main point regarding a printer is the paper. This is true from professional printing companies on down. Paper type and the ink used changes color. It's an unavoidable fact of the media. Glossy papers will produce the richest, most colorful prints. Matte papers will have duller color with the same inks, from the same printer, from the same image. Uncoated stock is the worst. If you like dull, uncoated stock is for you.


The point here is that CMYK images throw RGB printers for a loop. The less expensive a unit is, the more likely it will fail to print anything you expect from a CMYK image. Essentially, the cyan channel is interpreted as red, magenta as green, and yellow as blue. The black data is ignored. Results stink. Also, the default, generic CMYK profile Apple has included with the Mac OS for years is the flattest, grayest, ugliest CMYK profile in the history of computers. Never use it.


LarryHN is right on the button with monitor calibration. Two points. One, all monitors drift. The provided profile for a brand new monitor is reasonably accurate for about a month, then it's useless. Two, the built in monitor calibration function in the System Preferences is equally useless. When you go to create a new profile, the software can only presume you are always starting with a monitor that is displaying a perfect 6500K white point at a perfect predefined brightness level. So when you move the sliders around, the software at least has some idea what the monitor is doing, even though it can't see anything. Since all monitors drift (usually to the pink side for LCD and LED), the brightness level decreases as the panel ages, and the colorants themselves weaken with age, it is literally impossible to create an accurate profile visually. Only you can tell what the monitor looks like, the OS has no idea what's actually happening.


If color is important to you, invest in a hardware/software profiling package for your monitor. It's the cheapest of the various profiling options available, and one of the most important. That's because no matter what profile you use as your working RGB or CMYK color space, it's the monitor profile that ColorSync tries to reproduce at the printer. I highly recommend the X-Rite i1 Display Pro. It can be found online for about $250. Don't go with the cheaper ColorMunki Display. It looks pretty much the same, but isn't as accurate, and reads the monitor at half the speed. Completely ignore the ColorMunki Smile. It's just a repackaged i1 Display 2, which is a much older, outdated design that doesn't even work right with newer wide gamut monitors.


If you purchase this, use the photographer's default settings of a 5500K white point and a 2.2 gamma. Do not use the 6500K white point that is the default on both the Mac and Windows. Almost nowhere in the world does anyone see a white point and gray ramp that blue. The worldwide average and most commonly measured white point color temperature is 5300K. Why anyone ever decided 6500K should be the default is beyond me, and anyone else who knows anything about color. Also the bluer you get (higher Kelvin numbers), the further away from paper white you get, making it only all the more difficult to match your output to the screen. Personally, I use 5000K and a 1.8 gamma for both CMYK and RGB work. But then, I do prepress CMYK all day, and those are the default settings in the printing industry. The settings also work very well for RGB since you're still working with paper white, whether it's off your own printer, or photo prints from a place such as Snapfish. Even photo paper white will not come anywhere near 6500K.


Okay, we've tackled the printer (not completely) and the monitor. So back to the printer. You have the basic limitation of CMYK as your inks, no matter what printer you're using. If the cyan of your RGB file is really bright and saturated on screen, don't ever expect to see it on paper. The cyan colorant of the printer is locked to whatever it can produce on the paper used. It cannot be forced to print brighter or richer. Same with the rest of the inks. Think of it like painting a room. If you bought a bright orange paint, and then decided you want it even brighter with even more color saturation, you have to go out and purchase another can of paint. The one you have can't simply have it's color saturation turned up by wishing. It is what it is and is stuck at that hue and saturation. So apply this across the board in regards to what you see on the screen as opposed to your printed output. There are a lot of hues and saturated colors you will never, ever reproduce on paper. It's just a fact.


So, what do you do:


1) Properly profile your monitor. And by proper, I mean a hardware/software solution. With a device like the i1 Display Pro, you aren't just creating a profile, you're creating one that is based on what the monitor is actually doing since the hardware is measuring that output directly from the display. The OS and ColorSync are no longer guessing what the monitor looks like. It knows what it looks like.


2) Use the correct paper profile for the paper being used. Download them from HP if they have them. Note that they will always only provide profiles for their own papers. So you have to use HP papers to get the correct results. Just changing the type of paper changes the color. Two soft gloss papers from two different companies that look the same will produce different color from the same printer using the same printer profile. Profiles are very specific to both the paper and printer used to create the profile. You can't mix and match them and expect it to work.


3) Always apply ColorSync only ONCE! That is, if the app has a way to apply your profiles for output to the printer, and then the print driver also gives you an option to set the same thing, only use one or the other, otherwise you are applying the ColorSync conversions twice and the results will be junk. You have to set one or the other to "No color management", or whatever term they use to bypass the function.

Jul 4, 2013 12:54 PM in response to Kurt Lang

Thank You Kurt:


I do understand to a degree what you are saying. I am very aware of the paper differentials. The only thing I did in Color Sync was a verify and it came back with everything was OK. I didn't try a fix.


When I went in earlier to do a compare as suggested, I couldn't access that feature and when I went to help I got a message telling me that the help file wasn't available.


I don't expect a perfect match from screen to printer I am all to familiar with how the lighting changes and plays with the colours. I alway refused to e:mail clients proofs as I new the printed versions would be a disapointment if they saw the back lit versions.


My old printer had the extra cartridges. The dark and light cyan and the dark and light magenta's.


In the past I have printed the colour pallettes out similar to as I did at the bottom of Mary had a Little lamb to use as a base line when selecting my colours. The colour variationsfrom this particular printer ---monitor combination are so far off true it is scary.


I will look into getting that hardware you mentioned "Colour is Very Important to Me"!


If I can get my Book Pro in to a Tech, there is one in the city nearest me now. Can they do this calibration ?
Kicking my butt I didn't opt for the extended warrenty.


I choose this printer as it had the wide carriage formatt. I am very dissapointed in the colour. I noted it only had the four inks but wasn't aware how much difference that would make.


I did print out a picture once from iPhoto then I opened the same photo in Adobe Elements and saved it as sRGB embedded as Old Toad suggested. They were both dark but the Adobe one was an improvement. I tried printing it with using the Adobe Manges the Colors option and I get a blank page {LOL}


I'm going to copy and print your post so I have it available. Thanks again so much for sharing your wisdom and not being condesending about it.


I will invest in the i1 Display Pro as the cash comes available. I may also look at exchanging this printer for something with better ink options. I did notice HP's new printers don't use six cartridges, some have the option of a grey or photo cartridge.

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Print Colours not true in All Programs on My MacBook Pro

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