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Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

UPDATED: Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion

This is continued and summarized from a previous thread, Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion, which has grown rather large and unwieldy (and which I marked Solved in error). There are a few other threads that touch on it as well.

Some of us have seen a few cases of a pretty nasty problem with Time Machine backups on Mountain Lion. It doesn't seem to affect a lot of users, but those who have it, don't know it. It seems to have started at different times for different users, some as long ago as December, 2012.

The backups cannot not be used to do a full system restore from recent backups -- they don't appear on the selection screen that shows only "complete" backups. Plus, they're not recognized as backups by Setup Assistant or Migration Assistant. They don't appear on the Select the Source or Select Your System windows at all. But your user data is fine via the Time Machine browser (the "Star Wars" display).

What's happening is, the top-level Applications, Library, System and (hidden) private folders are being excluded by some process (not the user, and the exclusions do not appear on the Time Machine Preferences window). But all backups complete normally, and Verify Backups from the Time Machine menubar on network backups, and Verify Disk or Repair Disk via Disk Utility, don't show a problem (because what's there is intact; those processes can't tell that what's missing isn't supposed to be missing.)

In addition, we've seen a few threads where the problem is intermittent -- backups are unexpectedly large, sometimes often, sometimes less so, intermittently. In those cases, the folders are backed up, then skipped, then backed-up again, then skipped, etc. Since they appear to be "new" when backed-up again, they're backed-up in full, making backups of 15 GB or more.

See #D10 in Time Machine - Troubleshooting for an easy way to tell if you're affected, and a fix.

However, as we have no clue as to the cause yet, we need to be sure Apple knows about this, in detail, while it's happening, so I'm asking for some folks who are having these problems, and are fairly comfortable with the Finder at least, and following directions to do other things you may not be so familiar with, to help us collect information and contact Apple before running the fix in the link above (as that will destroy some of the evidence).

We're especially interested in folks who are covered by AppleCare, as you can call them for free and get some fairly quick attention. We can supply some "ammunition" for when you call them (since I haven't had this problem, and don't know how to reproduce it, I can't report it myself).

If you're having this problem and just want to run the fix, by all means do so (and check it periodically), but please don't post back with just a "me, too" post, unless you have something significant to add -- this thread may get long and those won't really help.

But if you're having a different problem, please do not respond to this thread. Start a new one, instead. If you're not sure how to do that, please go to the main Apple Support Communities page; some Tutorials are listed at the right. They'll show you how to get started.

Posted on Jun 24, 2013 6:48 AM

171 replies

rxbudp

Level 1

0 points

Sep 5, 2013 6:25 PM in response to Pondini

I have an iMac and have Sophos running and I have the bug. In fact, I am the one with the AppleCare case # 443758601 currently open and supposedly being worked by apple engeneers. Unfortunately, they have been working on it since mid June according to my AppleCare Senior Advisor. I have never done the "fix" process because I wanted to preserve whatever data I had on my system that might be of help to them in resolving this issue. Hopefully, what you guys have discovered and hopefully will report to Apple, might get the ball rolling again and get this issue resolved once and for all. I have been forwarding some of your threads to the AppleCare advisor in hopes he will pass them on to the engineers. No response so far.

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 5, 2013 6:33 PM in response to rxbudp

rxbudp wrote:

. . .

I have been forwarding some of your threads to the AppleCare advisor in hopes he will pass them on to the engineers. No response so far.

Great! Might be worth a phone call just to prod them again. And remind them of the http://pondini.org/TM/D10.html link and list of threads . . .

Ask for escalation . . . firmly, but politely, of course.

Sep 6, 2013 1:46 AM in response to Pondini

Pondini wrote:

That's curious. Every case I've seen has had at least one other entry in ExcludeByPath, most with Microsoft PlayReady.

It's because I deleted the .plist to see if that fixed the problem, which it didn't. Those entries will no doubt reappear over time.

I'll contact AppleCare & will keep you posted.

Sep 6, 2013 1:49 AM in response to R C-R

R C-R wrote:

For what very little it is worth, I have a number of third party exclusions in my plist & allow Sophos to run hourly downloads. I have never seen any signs of this bug on my iMac. No mega-backups; no missing system level folders from any TM backup.

Do you back up to a disk or a Time Capsule? I'm wondering if that is a factor, though why it would be, I'm not sure.

R C-R

Level 6

17,782 points

Sep 6, 2013 2:52 AM in response to Ross Barkman

Ross Barkman wrote:

Do you back up to a disk or a Time Capsule?

I back up to a pair of drives connected to my iMac via its USB ports. One is connected all the time; the other only temporarily every few days, just long enough to update its backup set.

Sep 6, 2013 3:17 AM in response to R C-R

R C-R wrote:

I back up to a pair of drives connected to my iMac via its USB ports. One is connected all the time; the other only temporarily every few days, just long enough to update its backup set.

Hmm - I use a Time Capsule. Might be relevant. Anyway, I'm on the phone to AppleCare right now.

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 4:15 AM in response to Ross Barkman

Ross Barkman wrote:

. . .

Hmm - I use a Time Capsule. Might be relevant.

Seems to happen on all sorts of hardware.

Anyway, I'm on the phone to AppleCare right now.

Terrific! Don't let 'em off the hook! 👿

Sep 6, 2013 8:36 AM in response to Pondini

OK, all info logged with AppleCare, case no. 501789398. I've been promised an update in 2-3 working days, though that will just be initial confirmation that they're looking at it, and possibly a request for more info. I expect this will be a protracted process. I have the direct contact details of the Apple rep dealing with it, so I can chase him for updates if it all goes quiet.

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 8:39 AM in response to Ross Barkman

Great! We're finally building a case here. 🙂

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 8:41 AM in response to Ross Barkman

Rats, I did it again -- meant to mark your post as helpful, not mine. 😟

Sep 6, 2013 9:02 AM in response to Pondini

I'm pretty sure I've got this problem. I had to do a painstaking manual restore and reinstall all my apps.

I have re-installed 10.8.4 onto the fusion drive I just made, and also have upgraded the HDD in my TC to a 3GB WD Red.

I've just started backing up to the empty TC and it reports that it is backing up 'x' of 461.22GB. My drive has used 530.11 of 747.56GB so I think something may be missing......!

Where can I send the com.apple.TimeMachine.plist file I just saved?

Sep 6, 2013 9:57 AM in response to Drumcandy

Actually, I have just realised there is 50GB in my exclusions list. Doh.😊

Still, that leaves some change...

I will wait for the backup to complete and report back.

As you were...😉

Pondini Author

Level 8

38,863 points

Sep 6, 2013 10:08 AM in response to Drumcandy

Drumcandy wrote:

. . .

I'm pretty sure I've got this problem. I had to do a painstaking manual restore and reinstall all my apps.

Welcome to the club. 😟

The damaged version of the plist is already gone, unless you have a copy from before the failure.

I've just started backing up to the empty TC and it reports that it is backing up 'x' of 461.22GB. My drive has used 530.11 of 747.56GB so I think something may be missing......!

There should be a difference, as Time Machine automatically skips some things, such as system work files, most caches & logs, trash, etc. But that's rarely anywhere near the 70 GB you have.

Let the backup finish (that's the main thing, after all), then use the handy widget in #A1 ofTime Machine - Troubleshooting to display the backup messages from your logs, including the amount copied.

If there's still a huge difference, see Where did my Disk Space go?

Sep 6, 2013 10:09 AM in response to Drumcandy

Drumcandy wrote:

Actually, I have just realised there is 50GB in my exclusions list. Doh.😊

Still, that leaves some change...

There is also a long list of 'standard' exclusions - caches, the /tmp directory and so forth - you can't see this because it isn't in the .plist, but it does appear in the .exclusions.plist file within each snapshot. The full list is:

<key>standardExclusionPaths</key>

<array>

<string>/.MobileBackups</string>

<string>/MobileBackups.trash</string>

<string>/.MobileBackups.trash</string>

<string>/.Spotlight-V100</string>

<string>/.TemporaryItems</string>

<string>/.Trashes</string>

<string>/.com.apple.backupd.mvlist.plist</string>

<string>/.fseventsd</string>

<string>/.hotfiles.btree</string>

<string>/Backups.backupdb</string>

<string>/Desktop DB</string>

<string>/Desktop DF</string>

<string>/Network/Servers</string>

<string>/Library/Updates</string>

<string>/Previous Systems</string>

<string>/Users/Shared/SC Info</string>

<string>/Users/Guest</string>

<string>/private/var/db/com.apple.backupd.backupVerification</string>

<string>/private/var/db/efw_cache</string>

<string>/private/var/db/Spotlight</string>

<string>/private/var/db/Spotlight-V100</string>

<string>/private/var/lib/postfix/greylist.db</string>

<string>/Volumes</string>

<string>/Network</string>

<string>/automount</string>

<string>/cores</string>

<string>/private/tmp</string>

<string>/private/Network</string>

<string>/private/tftpboot</string>

<string>/private/var/automount</string>

<string>/private/var/folders</string>

<string>/private/var/run</string>

<string>/private/var/tmp</string>

<string>/private/var/vm</string>

<string>/private/var/db/dhcpclient</string>

<string>/private/var/db/fseventsd</string>

<string>/Library/Caches</string>

<string>/Library/Logs</string>

<string>/System/Library/Caches</string>

<string>/System/Library/Extensions/Caches</string>

<string>/private/var/log</string>

<string>/private/var/spool/cups</string>

<string>/private/var/spool/fax</string>

<string>/private/var/spool/uucp</string>

</array>

Sep 6, 2013 1:06 PM in response to Pondini

Hi everyone. Sadly, add me to the list of those who are experiencing this problem. Although I'm probably a little more familiar with a Mac's OS, I'm by no means an authority on it. I say that only because, although most of the posts in this discussion (and the original one to which this one is linked) make sense to me, quite a few don't. With that said, if you're interested, here's the basic outline of the **** I'm currently experiencing:

A couple of months ago, I started having display/GPU issues with my MacBook Pro, which I keep connected to a Cinema Display. I verified, repaired, backed up "everything" with Time Machine to an external drive and took it to an Apple Store where I was told the logic board was bad. They replaced it, but it didn't solve the problem. I lived with it until last week. I performed the same rundown as before and took it back in, but this time I was told they needed to send it to one of their repair facilities because they couldn't figure it out. I got it back this past Tuesday with a repair summary that stated the hard drive, as well as the logic board (again) were replaced. The new hard drive, of course, required a complete restore from my Time Machine backup, but I hit the same wall as everyone else: no compete backup could be found although two month's worth of backups were clearly visible in the Finder. Migration Assistant didn't work, either, nor did a call to Apple Support. Back to the Apple Store I go, MBP and external drive in hand.

Three hours and three Genius Bar guys later, they noticed that none of my applications or my library had been backed up for months. The best solution they could give me was to drag my user folder from the Time Machine backup and to merge it with my new user account on my new hard drive. That scared me, and that's when I stumbled across these discussions. (Thank you so much, Pondini. You're awesome.) This morning, I called Apple Support again and spoke to two different people. I gave them the URLs to these threads, but then AT&T decided to drop my call. Apple didn't call back, so I called the Apple Store and spoke to one of the Genius Bar guys from yesterday. I gave him the URLs, as well, and was told that he'd escalate it to an engineer. I already knew this before he stated it, but if the information isn't on the backup, there's no way to magically recover it. I still wanted it escalated, which will take anywhere from 4–6 days to hear back from the engineer. He said he'd call me as soon as he could.

That's a very calm explanation, I know, but I'm holding myself back frim exploding on here. (You guys don't need that.) I'm a freelance graphic designer, and I'm losing money every day I don't have a functioning Mac with all of my applications. I could download them all again, but I don't want to overwrite or cause any type of irrevocable damage. I'm kidding myself, I know. I'll have to start from square two. (Square one would be if the Documents folder hadn't been backed up. If that were the case, this post would be in all caps.)

Someone please tell me "everything will be okay." All I know at this point is I'm hitting a bar tonight.

Thanks again, Pondini, and everyone else on here who has taken the time to solve this issue. I only wish the people at Apple responsible for engineering Time Machine were as committed as you.

UPDATED: Serious Time Machine bug on Mountain Lion